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Ian Ascher
03-19-2009, 08:51 AM
From 20 Questions this week:

12) It’s been reported that Judd won’t be writing Titans after the “Deathtrap” crossover concludes – who will be taking over the writing on that series?

DD: That will be announced at a later date, but I can guarantee you that there will be writers on Titans following Judd Winick’s departure.


I don't know about anyone else but THANK GOD!

ronin7
03-19-2009, 08:27 PM
I hate to say it since he used to be a good writer, or at least I think he was. But, I am thankful Didio realized that Winick needed the boot. I don't know what persistent problems he has stemming from Pedro's death, but he needs to get over them before he loses the only job he has.

Moonrider
03-19-2009, 11:19 PM
I have to ask, what is it about Judd Winick's writing that put everyone off? I don't follow a lot of his work but since he was assigned to many books and kept on assigned to either Nightwing or Teen Titans I assumed that he's a pretty good writer. And whose death supposedly affected his writing? Is this a similar case as with Jeph Loeb?

Paul Sanderson
03-19-2009, 11:39 PM
I don't think Judd's writing has been very good for quite some time, to be honest.

Moonrider
03-20-2009, 12:55 AM
If you could be more specific, please do.

Paul Sanderson
03-20-2009, 01:23 AM
Nothing to be specific about. None of his stories have been particularly good IMO since he (briefly) wrote Batman a few years ago.

onizuka43
03-20-2009, 03:28 AM
He usually starts off real strong with a series (Exiles and Outsiders) but then he starts adding tacked on topical issues to the stories (Grace's child prositution thing in Outsiders and Mia contracting HIV in Green Arrow) that don't really make much sense and are never really developed. I wouldn't even have that big of an issue with the stories if they written half way decent but they aren't, it's more or less "oh my god i have/or have been ,insert social ill here, we must do something." I have liked a lot of his stuff but he is someone who keeps on going back to the well with the same story ideas.

Ian Ascher
03-20-2009, 06:40 AM
I don't think Judd's writing has been very good for quite some time, to be honest.

Judd's writing on established comic characters has NEVER been good.

I think he can write but its no secret I think his ability to find a character's voice, especially if its an established character, is nothing short of painful. He's a kitsch by product of an MTV reality show that just needs to go.

Mike225
03-20-2009, 10:39 AM
I enjoyed his run on Green Arrow to an extent.

Deadfish07
03-20-2009, 10:57 AM
Interesting timing since McKeever is leaving Teen Titans as well.

With Nightwing gone and a question mark on Flash's future, I don't think there's much need for a Titans book.

ronin7
03-20-2009, 01:08 PM
I have to ask, what is it about Judd Winick's writing that put everyone off? I don't follow a lot of his work but since he was assigned to many books and kept on assigned to either Nightwing or Teen Titans I assumed that he's a pretty good writer. And whose death supposedly affected his writing? Is this a similar case as with Jeph Loeb?

Basically, Judd's best friend Pedro was a gay activist and a proud member of the gay community with an AIDS affliction. Some time after the Real World wrapped up, Pedro died due to complications with the disease. It has haunted Judd since, and made him more committed to his highly liberal convictions. The problem is, he forces feeds them into his work, and doesn't care that many of the readers either don't sympathize with him, or share his beliefs. What's worse is he even goes as far as mocking his audience with out of character sex scenes that serve no purpose then to take up page space. Or, he'll write dialogue that is insulting to the readers.

Whatever good points he had during his early days, he has since pissed away. And while I feel for his loss, it doesn't give him the right to assault the readership for not agreeing with him.

Ian Ascher
03-20-2009, 01:45 PM
That and he just doesnt "get" the driving force behind most of the superheroes he writes.

Eugene Selassie
03-20-2009, 01:52 PM
That and he just doesnt "get" the driving force behind most of the superheroes he writes.

I think he "got" Green Arrow and Batman.

Now the Titans...I don't know.

Mike225
03-20-2009, 01:53 PM
I think he "got" Green Arrow and Batman.

Now the Titans...I don't know.I was wondering if everyone was going to gloss over that. And, yeah, I forgot about his Batman run, which wasn't too bad.

Buckyrig
03-20-2009, 01:58 PM
Whatever good points he had during his early days, he has since pissed away. And while I feel for his loss, it doesn't give him the right to assault the readership for not agreeing with him.

"Right"? It's fiction. Fiction doesn't have to be balanced or anything like that. Now, DC and its editorial staff might not want much in the way of advocacy in its books, but "right"...I'm not even entirely sure what the hell that is supposed to mean.

Ian Ascher
03-20-2009, 02:18 PM
I think he "got" Green Arrow and Batman.

Now the Titans...I don't know.

I'll give to the fact that I never read his Green Arrow but during his Batman run didn't he have Alfred go out and kill a man in cold blood because he thought he discovered Batman was Bruce Wayne? Not only did Bruce/Batman know... he approved of it.

That's out of character.

(Been a while since Ive looked at these issues so if Im remembering wrong I'll cop to it... just let me know what really did happen)

ronin7
03-20-2009, 02:44 PM
"Right"? It's fiction. Fiction doesn't have to be balanced or anything like that. Now, DC and its editorial staff might not want much in the way of advocacy in its books, but "right"...I'm not even entirely sure what the hell that is supposed to mean.

Making condescending stories, dialogue, etc directed at the readership doesn't prove his point. It only makes him a rude, jack ass of the highest order. If he wants to make a case, do so like the real pros did it in the old days.

This goes double to these other writers who have this need to brow beat the readership. We should be making inroads to the readership, not tell them like my shit, or else.

Buckyrig
03-20-2009, 02:49 PM
Condescending to whom?

The readership is not homogeneous. And to any extent that it might be, that should be considered bad...which could give voice to the idea that Winnick's stories are narrow, but that doesn't seem to be your argument.

I get the feeling that - at least to some extent - you're adopting the position of persons or a type that Winnick's stories are deriding, as you see it.

ronin7
03-20-2009, 04:45 PM
Condescending to whom?

The readership is not homogeneous. And to any extent that it might be, that should be considered bad...which could give voice to the idea that Winnick's stories are narrow, but that doesn't seem to be your argument.

I get the feeling that - at least to some extent - you're adopting the position of persons or a type that Winnick's stories are deriding, as you see it.


Here's a point of reference, after having Grace sleep with Anissa Pierce, he had a scene afterwards where Grace said:

ISN'T IT GREAT BEING A LESBIAN?

People, got the point when they slept together, he didn't need to go, "Hey dummies! They're gay!"

He did it with Starfire as well by orchestrating an impromptu sex scene between her and Dick when their relationship has been over for years, and before that he had Starfire spelling out to the audience that she really, really likes sex.

A nymph is not the same a prostitute. The audience is not made up of morons.

I don't know how I can make it any clearer about his condescension towards the readership.

Paul Sanderson
03-20-2009, 05:24 PM
Judd's writing on established comic characters has NEVER been good.

I think he can write but its no secret I think his ability to find a character's voice, especially if its an established character, is nothing short of painful. He's a kitsch by product of an MTV reality show that just needs to go.

Agreed. His Batman was particularly awful IMO.

Mike225
03-20-2009, 05:27 PM
Agreed. His Batman was particularly awful IMO.Oh, Frank. You so crazy.

Eugene Selassie
03-20-2009, 07:12 PM
Actually, his Batman run was the most restrained I've seen him.
If he could show that much restraint on all of his books, he'd be going places.

Paul Sanderson
03-20-2009, 11:59 PM
Restraint doesn't mean it was good. Bad characterisation and gimmicky storytelling. Not my cup of tea.

Mike225
03-21-2009, 12:04 AM
What was the gimmick he used?

Paul Sanderson
03-21-2009, 12:09 AM
Bringing back Jason Todd, though he wasn't alone with that scenario I grant you. See some of the above posts for further examples of his tripe.

Mike225
03-21-2009, 12:36 AM
Nobody had AIDs or any other disease that I know of on his run. It was pretty straight forward.

Saul Haber
03-22-2009, 04:05 AM
I've never really liked his writing. It's always seemed out of place and a little too sensitive and girly for the subject matter. I think I read a decent issue of batman that he wrote, but if you're writing comics and can't write a good batman story, then what CAN you write??

Paul Sanderson
03-22-2009, 07:55 PM
Agreed, Saul.

Nick Kerklaan
03-22-2009, 10:57 PM
if you're writing comics and can't write a good batman story, then what CAN you write??

:blink:

Moonrider
03-23-2009, 03:59 AM
but if you're writing comics and can't write a good batman story, then what CAN you write??

The Wraith. :)

I kid, I kid... :laugh:

Eugene Selassie
03-23-2009, 12:08 PM
but if you're writing comics and can't write a good batman story, then what CAN you write??

ROM Spaceknight?

Ian Ascher
03-23-2009, 06:30 PM
Looks like Judd is back on Batman... ugh...

Eugene Selassie
03-23-2009, 06:53 PM
I really don't see what the big deal is.

Judd was actually not that bad on Batman. Neither his propaganda, nor his penchant for on the nose type stuff were that much a factor.
I think his Batman was decent. If you take Mia out of the equation, his Green Arrow kicked ass as well...once that book became Green Arrow/ Black Canary, I didn't dig it. Seems not many people know how to write Dinah.

But once again, his Bats wasn't as bad as you all make it out to be.
His Titans, GA/BC, etc...maybe.

Ian Ascher
03-23-2009, 06:59 PM
Again......

Correct me if I'm wrong but Judd had Alfred kill a man in cold blood to protect Batman's secret identity and Bruce/Batman approved of it?

That's just bad writing.

Mike225
03-23-2009, 07:48 PM
I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.

ronin7
03-23-2009, 08:46 PM
Okay, I just read the solicits for DC, and if Red Robin is searching for Batman, (which is what Tim, or Dick would do); who the hell is Batman?

Because I know Red Robin was Jason Todd, but what if Morrison really raped the fans, and put Todd as Batman and Damien as Robin? Ugh, that would kill any interest I have in picking up the first trade of his Batman and Robin run.

Saul Haber
03-23-2009, 09:38 PM
Hmm... Jason Todd and Damien as Batman and Robin? That actually sounds interesting. It's kind of like Un-Batman and Un-Robin. It could be fun.
And before you all jump down my throat, let me just say that I think this whole Battle for the Cowl, Batman "dying" thing is a big mess, so if something interesting and out of the ordinary can come out of this, then I'll take it. Besides, it wouldn't be the status quo for more than a few months anyway.

Paul Sanderson
03-23-2009, 09:43 PM
Looks like Judd is back on Batman... ugh...

Let me double that UGH! :man:

Mike225
03-24-2009, 12:25 AM
Let me double that UGH! :man:I guess it's one less book you'll be picking up, huh?

Paul Sanderson
03-24-2009, 02:40 AM
Damn straight.

Mike225
03-24-2009, 05:12 AM
:laugh:

Ian Ascher
03-24-2009, 10:24 AM
I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.

Now Im gonna have to go and look for it.

Eugene Selassie
03-25-2009, 02:27 PM
Damn...you've got me defending Winick in this thread and JMS in a Marvel thread...ME, defending creators.

What the hell is this, Bizarro World?

:har:

Moonrider
04-26-2009, 08:18 AM
Here's a point of reference, after having Grace sleep with Anissa Pierce, he had a scene afterwards where Grace said:

ISN'T IT GREAT BEING A LESBIAN?

People, got the point when they slept together, he didn't need to go, "Hey dummies! They're gay!"

He did it with Starfire as well by orchestrating an impromptu sex scene between her and Dick when their relationship has been over for years, and before that he had Starfire spelling out to the audience that she really, really likes sex.

A nymph is not the same a prostitute. The audience is not made up of morons.

I don't know how I can make it any clearer about his condescension towards the readership.

Hmm. Here's a surprising fact. Winnick was the best friend and fellow cast of a Pedro Zamora in MTV's The Real World, who died of AIDS. I'm sure you guys knew that already but this is something I just found out on Wikipedia's Real World page. So yeah, now I understand more about this Winnick dude and why he writes stuff like that.

Eugene Selassie
04-26-2009, 11:38 AM
Yeah, well I am Black. I have dealt with alot of in your face racism in my life...mainly when I moved from New York City to Florida. I've also had people I know get hurt or killed due to violent crimes.

www.myspace.com/The_Throwaway

Go read my comic. See if I've FORCE FED any of my social issues down the readers throats.

Moonrider
04-26-2009, 09:31 PM
Like I said in earlier posts I was never exposed much to Winnick's work so I didn't know why a lot of guys here don't seem to like him, now after reading his background I at least get the general idea. I'm not judging any writer's work or anything, mind you. I don't have the capacity to say whether someone is a good writer or not, only whether I like the stories or not.