16-panel window frame

[carynord]

This is a nice simple exercise --don't just read it, for the maximum benefit, do it! There is a big difference between reading something and getting the concept and executing it.

This is how you draw a window frame.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9810/cimg1469.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1469.jpg)

Draw a simple rectangle in a window shape. Establish your horizon line and vanishing point however you want. Divide the rectangle up with diagonal lines from corner to opposite corner. From here you can draw in the frame as shown.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3771/cimg1470.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1470.jpg)

Connect the corners of the frame to the vanishing point to create depth. You can make it as deep as you want --as long as it still looks like a reasonable depth for a window frame. It's key to establish the secondary plane behind the window frame --behind the first rectangle you made. I've shaded around the secondary plane in an attempt to highlight the rectangle behind the frame.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6450/cimg1471h.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1471h.jpg)

Draw diagonal lines corner to corner to find the center of the rectangle in the back. Notice the new diagonal 'X' is not in the same spot as in the first example! There are two different planes here and you need to find the center of both planes.
Follow? ...seriously, let me know if this makes sense.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9501/cimg1472.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1472.jpg)

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7311/cimg1475s.jpg (http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1475s.jpg)


Divide the rectangle up further by creating divisions in each section of the original rectangle. You should have 4 equal parts per side.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3112/cimg1476x.jpg (http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1476x.jpg)

Now you have the frame for your 16 panel window.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6505/cimg1477.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1477.jpg)

And then the finishing touches.

The important part of this is finding the center on two separate planes. You have to find the center on one plane by dividing the square up before you can find the center on the second plane.

Now you can create depth accurately.

[Scaleyinx]

Ah HA!

Now I know why I always hate my multi-paneled windows and french doors. I've been lost about how to find the second center of the cookie,...er, I mean the plane. Thanks Cary! :happy: I'm gonna try this excersize.

[NickGuy]

nice. im going to do this on my own when i get a moment!

[Justice41]

Just to add to Cary's notes.
http://home.comcast.net/~justice4one/windowdetail.jpg

[Sequential76]

http://www.sequential76.com/images/misc/eomfpoa4.jpg

[carynord]

http://www.sequential76.com/images/misc/eomfpoa4.jpg

There ya go. Simple, right?

[Justice41]

http://www.sequential76.com/images/misc/eomfpoa4.jpg
Notice on both sides of the inset frame you have equal spacing seen of the window frame. If the frame is set back you shouldn't see as much of the frame from the left side(as we see the drawing) Because it's set back a few inches the exterior frame would hide a bit of the window frame. It's little things but if you keep these things in mind it creates a sense of reality in the drawings. Thickness, depth, shade and shadow all help to create the environment that your characters live in.
http://home.comcast.net/~justice4one/windowsamp.jpg

[Sequential76]

Cary: I think simple in that I understand the concept. THe first one I did was way off, my second try is the one I post and it took me too long, This last one below took me less than 10 minutes and it better executed.

Justice41: I did the last version below with your comments in mind.

Thanks,

http://www.sequential76.com/images/misc/Window_Practice.jpg

[carynord]

Cary: I think simple in that I understand the concept. THe first one I did was way off, my second try is the one I post and it took me too long, This last one below took me less than 10 minutes and it better executed.

Justice41: I did the last version below with your comments in mind.

Thanks,

http://www.sequential76.com/images/misc/Window_Practice.jpg

Oops! I missed that on your first round... nice catch, Justice.

You have to find the center for each plane.

[Bluepencil]

here is mine.
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt159/Bluepencil79/Drawing%20with%20Cary%20Nord/16WindowFramesDWCN.jpg

[Justice41]

here is mine.
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt159/Bluepencil79/Drawing%20with%20Cary%20Nord/16WindowFramesDWCN.jpg
You also did what Sequential76 did initially.

[The Art Keeper]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n21/theartkeeper3/16panelwindowtry2.jpg

still working on the other scene

[carynord]

here is mine.
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt159/Bluepencil79/Drawing%20with%20Cary%20Nord/16WindowFramesDWCN.jpg

Yeah, make sure you find the center of the back plane too.

[carynord]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n21/theartkeeper3/16panelwindowtry2.jpg

still working on the other scene

Good. You got it. That corner on the window sill is a little distorted. I'd want my money back from that carpenter. You can use the division of squares technique to find the center of anything.

You should be conscious of your lines, even on a simple exercise that will never see inks. Try to make them deliberate, something an inker could interpret easily.

[galmando]

in my hotel room tnight so ican practice this, looking forwrd to it, got my self my set square from WHSmiths, shame i cant do the perspective turotial yet cuz i aint got the refence in front of me, dang it!!

[secondrater]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/secondrater/Window.jpg
Here's my stab at this. A little rough, yeah?
I don't think I created enough depth in my window frame, and the window sill could use work.

[carynord]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/secondrater/Window.jpg
Here's my stab at this. A little rough, yeah?
I don't think I created enough depth in my window frame, and the window sill could use work.

Nice work. The window sill looks fine to me. Ideally, you'd use some reference so that you're not making up what a window looks like but this was more about understanding the concept than a finished piece.

[Justice41]

You guys could take it a step further and render this as if it was going to be used in a comic book. Let me take a stab at it as well.
http://home.comcast.net/~justice4one/wind.jpg

[galmando]

finished mine last night, wil lscan it in tomorrow, but i think i may take Justice41's advice and throw in some details, so i think i may just re-do it completely.

it's good practise right?

[Justice41]

Yeah render it. Bit of advice. Really think about the materials you will be rendering. Is the frame wood, is the casement concrete or brick or a facade of cardboard with stucco? Think about what they look like in reality then pick a few things that only that surface has and try to add some small details. The way i drew mine is how I would draw it for an Architectural rendering. AR are sometimes reduced down to the size of a business card or smaller so putting solid blacks down is a no-no as it will just become a mess. I struggle to do solid blacks instead of hatching because of that.
Oh and folks always think of surfaces as planes. Each plane has it's own height width depth and surface texture as well as vanishing points. If you set up your drawing properly you can have multiple objects pointing towards one VP and still keep interest as the objects will be dispersed around the drawing and will not look as if they all were done on the laze. In the original photo I believe the two Traffic signals had the same VP's as the Light post.
Oh and get out the tools. get out the ellipse, the curves the french curves and the circle templates. Get serious with the final render. Never assume an inker will do you justice on the inks and maybe if you do a really nice pencil render that may be the final image.

[jmedors]

Very nice! I think you covered this before some where, and you know a hell of a lot more about perspective than i do so I figured I'd ask you to show everyone. Instead of me trying to stumble through it. Could you tell every one the thinking behind how you got your drop shadows? there is a process for that as well. Alot of people just fake it, but in reality you should use a vp and angle for them.

[Justice41]

I use an adjustable triangle to determine shadow length. Mostly I use the 45 degree angle as standard so with that in mind. starting from the height of the figure draw a line from the top down. using any vanishing point you want, as long as it's on the horizon line, draw a line from the bottom of the figure and where the two lines meet is the proper distance for the shadow. Use that VP for all the shadows that fall on flat surfaces like the ground sidewalk rooftop wherever. It can't fail. for doing shadows underneath and object the same principle applies. Use the AT to draw a line down from wherever the object butts up against the vertical surface. Take the ledge on the widow sample. I used two lines from the thickness of the ledge. The actual size of the shadow is up to you from there on unless you have elevation plans and know how far the ledge sticks out. The larger the ledge the larger the shadow.
http://home.comcast.net/~justice4one/shadowcasting.jpg

[Justice41]

Another tip, Shadows do not fall on glass. Shadows fall on things behind the glass but not on the glass itself. So no shadows on glass reflections and transparency only. Only exception is a mirrored glass. When doing reflections Try to use the VP's to determine where and what get's reflected. Glass reflects what's directly across from it unless it's a funhouse glass or mirror. In fact you can use this to also reflect things on a globe as well. That ones tricky but when you get it it's something you'll want to use even if the occasion doesn't call for it.

[JJ McKool]

Oh man...rulers....my...only weakness...

*passes out from pain*

[jmedors]

very cool! thanks. Every one should also notice that in the image with the kid pointing at spidey. if you use the vp and draw a line from the top of the pointing kids head, then bring a line horizontally from the top of the kid in front of the windows head, they are around the same height. this is a way to keep things in proportion. Nice work.

[BobRivard]

Oh man...rulers....my...only weakness...

*passes out from pain*

You don't need to use rulers. In fact, it's good to practice drawing straight lines without one. It'll make you a better draftsman and save you time. Your vanishing points and construction lines also don't need to be exact, as long as they're close, things will be convincing. The real trick is getting good at using all these techniques in a shorthand version that works for you.

[raya]

You don't need to use rulers. In fact, it's good to practice drawing straight lines without one. It'll make you a better draftsman and save you time. Your vanishing points and construction lines also don't need to be exact, as long as their close, things will be convincing. The real trick is getting good at using all these techniques in a shorthand version that works for you.

Did you read Cary's and Justice's posts? Even in art school (I went to art school, and know a few people who went to varous art schools as well) they want you to use rulers for drafting, unless you are taking life drawing, where they train you to draw something in 10-15 minutes.

[BobRivard]

Did you read Cary's and Justice's posts? Even in art school (I went to art school, and know a few people who went to varous art schools as well) they want you to use rulers for drafting, unless you are taking life drawing, where they train you to draw something in 10-15 minutes.

Hey, I didn't realize, until just a minute ago, that Cary had this whole "Drawing with Cary" thing going on and was starting with the absolute basics. I wasn't trying to derail anything, so my apologies if that's how it looked. Somebody just linked me to this thread and I commented.

I just think a lot of guys get killed with trying to be so accurate and get bogged down with building perspective lines and being so technically accurate that their artwork starts to suffer. It's good to keep in mind that once these concepts are learned that there are abbreviated ways to get down the important lines and shapes - Same applies to figure drawing.

I went to art school as well, and one of the things I was taught was how to handle perspective like this without a ruler. That's not really the point though - as long as people can grasp these concepts, it doesn't really matter what you're using.

[WillieHewes]

Whee, I did one!

I never use rulers, so this was painful. I kind of like the result though, even though it's just the basic window from the example. The only thing I'm a bit confused about is the right side of the windowsill. It's larger than the other side, but I measured the length and everything and it should be right.

Any insight, let me know. Also, thanks for these lessons, they're really cool. I'm working on the street exercise, but it's taking a bit longer.

http://www.itchpublishing.com/sketchblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/03mar31.gif

[Nick Pitarra]

Whee, I did one!

I never use rulers, so this was painful. I kind of like the result though, even though it's just the basic window from the example. The only thing I'm a bit confused about is the right side of the windowsill. It's larger than the other side, but I measured the length and everything and it should be right.

Any insight, let me know. Also, thanks for these lessons, they're really cool. I'm working on the street exercise, but it's taking a bit longer.

http://www.itchpublishing.com/sketchblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/03mar31.gif

You got to measure form the back of the vertical board...not the front. here's a quick fix.

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2103/fixit.jpg (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fixit.jpg)

[Justice41]

What's going on here? All those people chiming in saying they want to do these exercises yet very few have followed through.

[Scaleyinx]

I've got this one in the works, and should have it done today. However, my scanner is not hooked up yet, so it might be a few days before I can post it. :)

[carynord]

Whee, I did one!

I never use rulers, so this was painful. I kind of like the result though, even though it's just the basic window from the example. The only thing I'm a bit confused about is the right side of the windowsill. It's larger than the other side, but I measured the length and everything and it should be right.

Any insight, let me know. Also, thanks for these lessons, they're really cool. I'm working on the street exercise, but it's taking a bit longer.

http://www.itchpublishing.com/sketchblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/03mar31.gif

Hey Willie!

Looks like you pretty much have the idea down. I think Nick answered this one already with an easy to understand draw-over. I didn't bother to measure out mine, I just eyeballed it. I'll follow up on this exercise and show you how to do it properly. I'm just in the middle of a deadline right now so I can't take much time for it.

[AntFace]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/munzdogg11/windowhomework.jpg

I tried a little variation on the example you posted. I tried to make my window look like the lower half of the window can slide up(the weather is getting warmer). I think it almost works, more practicing should make it look better. It looked better before I started to marker it and realized I was ruining it so I stopped. Thanks for posting these lessons up Cary. I'll be doing the next lessons soon.

[eve]

To Antface: One thing I'm learning, is that when it starts to look bad, you better keep going (ok, you might ruin it, too, I guess going digital for a lot of my finished stuff makes that less of a problem).
Some schadow from the upper window on the lower one would help this imho.

[madelf]

I tried a little variation on the example you posted. I tried to make my window look like the lower half of the window can slide up(the weather is getting warmer). I think it almost works, more practicing should make it look better. It looked better before I started to marker it and realized I was ruining it so I stopped. Thanks for posting these lessons up Cary. I'll be doing the next lessons soon.
I'm sure Cary will be along with better tips, but in the meantime...

Take a closer look at an actual window. You'll find that there's a substantial frame around all the glass (set within the overall window frame) and the whole frame moves up and down. So you'll see the frame across the middle too, not just the mullions that hold the glass. And the bottom frame of the upper section will overlap the upper frame of the bottom section where they meet in the middle. And the glass isn't usually recessed much within that inner frame.

I quickly 'shopped your drawing a bit to show you what I mean. I didn't adjust your grid spacing, so that's completely off now, but hopefully it helps show what I mean.
http://www.madelf.net/windowhomework.jpg

An additional note:
The top section is always on the exterior side of the window, so which frame is in front (top or bottom) will depend on whether you're drawing an inside view or an outside view.

I hope that made sense.

[carynord]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/munzdogg11/windowhomework.jpg

I tried a little variation on the example you posted. I tried to make my window look like the lower half of the window can slide up(the weather is getting warmer). I think it almost works, more practicing should make it look better. It looked better before I started to marker it and realized I was ruining it so I stopped. Thanks for posting these lessons up Cary. I'll be doing the next lessons soon.

Looks good, man. Looks like you've got the concept down. Excellent.

Madelf made a couple good points. You'll always be better off working from reference rather than making it up. Not a big deal for this exercise since the point was to understand how to find the center of various planes and put them in correct perspective rather than an anatomically correct window.

If you want to try it again, pull up some reference and go for it!

Thanks for doing the exercise and posting it though! It makes it much more fun for me if people participate in this.

[AntFace]

eve: Thanks for commenting. I think I'm going to redo this and I'll NOT use those markers and shade it differently somehow.

madelf: When you're right you're right. I didn't use reference at all (which was kind of the point of the exercise) but then I called an audible at the end which I should of referenced. I'll try again.

cary: I think I will try again. You're not the only one having fun with these!

[j giar]

Yes I know I'm behind....But I'm at work and slow as hell. So I did this with what I had laying around here. A ruler and business card holder to check squareness. I admire what Perspective does...I'm just not a fan of order and cleanliness.... :D
So I went in and freehanded the window with a crummy Bic Ultra, to give it the "lived in" look....
Sorry I was late teach.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9996/sketchz.jpg

[Justice41]

Yes I know I'm behind....But I'm at work and slow as hell. So I did this with what I had laying around here. A ruler and business card holder to check squareness. I admire what Perspective does...I'm just not a fan of order and cleanliness.... :D
So I went in and freehanded the window with a crummy Bic Ultra, to give it the "lived in" look....
Sorry I was late teach.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9996/sketchz.jpg
You cannot have shadows on Glass. Only reflections. If you see a shadow in a window it's because whatever is inside the building is close enough to the window so a shadow can fall on it. No shadows on glass. ;)

[j giar]

You cannot have shadows on Glass. Only reflections. If you see a shadow in a window it's because whatever is inside the building is close enough to the window so a shadow can fall on it. No shadows on glass. ;)

Got it...but due to my sucky scribblings...it was meant to be a reflection of the frame closest to the glass. Since you do a lot of work with buildings...how about an example of illustrating or rendering window reflections.

[Justice41]

I'll look for something and scan it. If not I'll have to draw something from scratch.

[j giar]

I'll look for something and scan it. If not I'll have to draw something from scratch.

I just dug out a book I haven't cracked in ages. Van Nostrand Manual of Rendering with Pen and Ink by Robert W. Gill. Hell, I forgot I even had this. It's more architectural based but It has everything.....Think I'll re-do my window. Like to see you post that stuff, though.

[Justice41]

I have that book I also have the rendering in pencil companion book.

[carynord]

Take note of how I found the center of all my shapes in order to determine the correct center and spacing for subsequent shapes. So that window sill that was giving a few people a problem in the first example? ...well, this is how you solve that problem accurately! The secret is all in the divisional X's! An X in any rectangular shape will give you the center of it and from that you can determine the center of every other shape.


http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1935/cimg1490q.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1490q.jpg)

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6019/cimg1492k.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1492k.jpg)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7020/cimg1493k.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1493k.jpg)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2268/cimg1494n.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1494n.jpg)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8962/cimg1495c.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1495c.jpg)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2152/cimg1496y.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1496y.jpg)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7488/cimg1497d.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1497d.jpg)

[carynord]

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6361/cimg1499.jpg (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1499.jpg)

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4650/cimg1500y.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1500y.jpg)

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4346/cimg1501.jpg (http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1501.jpg)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6285/cimg1502.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1502.jpg)

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9441/cimg1504.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1504.jpg)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1821/cimg1507k.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1507k.jpg)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6705/cimg1508.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1508.jpg)

[carynord]

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/3041/cimg1510n.jpg (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1510n.jpg)

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7640/cimg1511.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1511.jpg)

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1600/cimg1512.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1512.jpg)

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1967/cimg1513.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1513.jpg)

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3555/cimg1514.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1514.jpg)

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7345/cimg1517.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1517.jpg)

[carynord]

Yes I know I'm behind....But I'm at work and slow as hell. So I did this with what I had laying around here. A ruler and business card holder to check squareness. I admire what Perspective does...I'm just not a fan of order and cleanliness.... :D
So I went in and freehanded the window with a crummy Bic Ultra, to give it the "lived in" look....
Sorry I was late teach.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9996/sketchz.jpg

And I'm sorry for the tardiness too! I didn't forget 'cha, Jim (it is Jim, right?)!

The "lived in" look is cool. I usually layout all my scenes with a ruler and precise measurements in my roughs and then trace it out freehand for my final pencils... for that slightly lived in look! It's a nice technique that lends a little down to earth ruggedness to whatever you're drawing.

I think you'd definitely enjoy order and cleanliness more with the right tools. A business card holder?? haha. Invest in a triangle on your way home from work today- there'll be more of this pesky perspective stuff coming up.

As for the drawing, the basics look good but your lines lacks a certain amount of confidence and weight. It's pretty simple, use a heavier, thicker line to depict a shadow (i.e. bottom of object) and a lighter line to indicate a highlight (i.e. top of object).

Nice work! Thanks for the effort!

[Justice41]

You guys really need to buy a set of triangles and straight edges. You have no excuse for sloppy work. You are too old to be winging it. Take responsibility for the work you are doing and approach it in a professional and businesslike way. A good mechanic doesn't just use a screw driver does he? No. Buying the proper tools isn't a chore it's an investment. Get ta gettin. DickBlick, the local art store, just about any online Drafting supplier will have triangle packages for cheap.

[Justice41]

Got it...but due to my sucky scribblings...it was meant to be a reflection of the frame closest to the glass. Since you do a lot of work with buildings...how about an example of illustrating or rendering window reflections.
Think about changing the line-work when you do shadows or shade o specific materials. You wouldn't just draw hatch lines on a rough textured wood or stone. Experiment.

[carynord]

Think about changing the line-work when you do shadows or shade o specific materials. You wouldn't just draw hatch lines on a rough textured wood or stone. Experiment.

Yes, good point. Always think about the textures you're drawing. Notice how other comic book artists depict different textures or better yet, go out and observe your own textures and come up with your own depiction. I really think this is the hardest part for comic book art guys to do --observing from life. This is the key difference between pros and amateurs! Pros may be able to fake it but that's only because they've spent a lot of time observing the world around them.

[Justice41]

Yes, good point. Always think about the textures you're drawing. Notice how other comic book artists depict different textures or better yet, go out and observe your own textures and come up with your own depiction. I really think this is the hardest part for comic book art guys to do --observing from life. This is the key difference between pros and amateurs! Pros may be able to fake it but that's only because they've spent a lot of time observing the world around them.
Gotta think how shadows also help to create volume and depth if done right. But that's for later down the line. Guys also realize that knowing these things will also help when doing colors If you can shadow and shade in B/W and grays, you can also color.

[j giar]

You guys really need to buy a set of triangles and straight edges. You have no excuse for sloppy work. You are too old to be winging it. Take responsibility for the work you are doing and approach it in a professional and businesslike way. A good mechanic doesn't just use a screw driver does he? No. Buying the proper tools isn't a chore it's an investment. Get ta gettin. DickBlick, the local art store, just about any online Drafting supplier will have triangle packages for cheap.

First off I have to apologize to you Cary. Justice is right...no excuse for handing in shit work. I decided to do this while at my fulltime job instead of waiting till I go home where all my tools are. You're taking the time to do this to help us and it's disrespectful. I wouldn't have done this on my own project and shouldn't have here. My apologies again. Yes I do own triangles (4 of them to be exact.. :D ) among a collection of rulers, t-squares, circle guides, oval guides, french curves...etc. So Sorry for the shit work. And I promise to not hand in half ass shots in the future.

All other advice is appreciated...and Justice I thumbed through that architecture book and saw some ideas for glass reflection. Point taken and thanks.
J.

[carynord]

First off I have to apologize to you Cary. Justice is right...no excuse for handing in shit work. I decided to do this while at my fulltime job instead of waiting till I go home where all my tools are. You're taking the time to do this to help us and it's disrespectful. I wouldn't have done this on my own project and shouldn't have here. My apologies again. Yes I do own triangles (4 of them to be exact.. :D ) among a collection of rulers, t-squares, circle guides, oval guides, french curves...etc. So Sorry for the shit work. And I promise to not hand in half ass shots in the future.

All other advice is appreciated...and Justice I thumbed through that architecture book and saw some ideas for glass reflection. Point taken and thanks.
J.

Haha. Don't be too hard on yourself, man. Well, actually, be hard on yourself, but don't feel the need to apologize! You take away what you put in and all that...

[j giar]

Haha. Don't be too hard on yourself, man. Well, actually, be hard on yourself, but don't feel the need to apologize! You take away what you put in and all that...


Just to show I do own a triangle and to put what needs to be put in to it. :)

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4817/windowq.jpg

Thanks Cary and Justice...I'll ink it next. J.

[Justice41]

You jerk your lines don't you? Yeah me too, it's a hard thing to stop once it starts.

[j giar]

You jerk your lines don't you? Yeah me too, it's a hard thing to stop once it starts.

Yes...and I have no reason why or when I started doing it. :huh: :D

[Justice41]

I notice it a lot with artist who like doing free-hand illustrations. The guy who taught me to do Architectural illustrations would jerk his hands but he did it deliberately and his stuff was super sweet. The man could toss down a few guide lines and illustrate a brick wall and make you salivate at it's perfectness. He's old school though or was. Even he's started using digital to create his renderings.

[Biofungus]

I have a question that may slightly relate to this topic:

I've expressed before how much trouble I have with architectural renderings. No matter how carefully I measure things out, it seems the only way I can get a decent perspective on buildings is by drawing them on graph paper. The problem I have with creating a grid on the actual final paper, is that creating it is done almost the same way as doing the building itself (meaning, if my method for drawing buildings is flawed, so is my method for creating such a grid). Or maybe to be more specific, it's not a flawed method, just flawed execution. Maybe it's my work area, or even my own eyes (I'm waiting for my new glasses, and my prescription has changed fairly significantly), but how can I apply the "assistance" that graph paper allows me, to a regular page (I love vellum, but don't mind smooth/plate bristol either)? I mean in a way that's more "mechanical" (ie would bypass the problem I seem to be having doing it myself with just rulers, et al).

[carynord]

I have a question that may slightly relate to this topic:

I've expressed before how much trouble I have with architectural renderings. No matter how carefully I measure things out, it seems the only way I can get a decent perspective on buildings is by drawing them on graph paper. The problem I have with creating a grid on the actual final paper, is that creating it is done almost the same way as doing the building itself (meaning, if my method for drawing buildings is flawed, so is my method for creating such a grid). Or maybe to be more specific, it's not a flawed method, just flawed execution. Maybe it's my work area, or even my own eyes (I'm waiting for my new glasses, and my prescription has changed fairly significantly), but how can I apply the "assistance" that graph paper allows me, to a regular page (I love vellum, but don't mind smooth/plate bristol either)? I mean in a way that's more "mechanical" (ie would bypass the problem I seem to be having doing it myself with just rulers, et al).

Got an example of your work?

[Justice41]

I have a question that may slightly relate to this topic:

I've expressed before how much trouble I have with architectural renderings. No matter how carefully I measure things out, it seems the only way I can get a decent perspective on buildings is by drawing them on graph paper. The problem I have with creating a grid on the actual final paper, is that creating it is done almost the same way as doing the building itself (meaning, if my method for drawing buildings is flawed, so is my method for creating such a grid). Or maybe to be more specific, it's not a flawed method, just flawed execution. Maybe it's my work area, or even my own eyes (I'm waiting for my new glasses, and my prescription has changed fairly significantly), but how can I apply the "assistance" that graph paper allows me, to a regular page (I love vellum, but don't mind smooth/plate bristol either)? I mean in a way that's more "mechanical" (ie would bypass the problem I seem to be having doing it myself with just rulers, et al).
Bio no matter how careful you are unless you're working from architectural plans and have done a plot projected rendition of those plans, it shouldn't matter if the buildings you are drawing are absolutely correct. You just want to achieve believability.

[Biofungus]

That's the problem. I mean, even with windows and whatnot. When I draw buildings on graph paper, everything does look nice and *believable*, but on my final paper (whether I'm doing a page or a pinup or even a sketchcard), no matter how carefully I draw my guides, the final results look ker-appy. :( There's just something (maybe some kind of visual cue I'm not picking up on consciously) about the graph paper that (even drawing from different angles/perspectives) I seem to "get right" that I can't seem to mimic/incorporate into unruled pages...

[Justice41]

That's the problem. I mean, even with windows and whatnot. When I draw buildings on graph paper, everything does look nice and *believable*, but on my final paper (whether I'm doing a page or a pinup or even a sketchcard), no matter how carefully I draw my guides, the final results look ker-appy. :( There's just something (maybe some kind of visual cue I'm not picking up on consciously) about the graph paper that (even drawing from different angles/perspectives) I seem to "get right" that I can't seem to mimic/incorporate into unruled pages...
Without a visual example it's kinda hard to get what your saying. I've never in my life used a graph to draw anything. Maybe I should have, i don't know. When i draw comic style buildings I just draw really loose blocks in a somewhat correct perspective then I create my VP's and tidy up from there. Applying a believable layer over the building in the form of textures and architectural details is probably best done from ref. Take this quick two minute sketch I did to help another member out at PJ. Noting lines up but if I went to final I would make everything line up and all would be good over the land.
http://home.comcast.net/~justice4one/giantrobo.jpg