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Eugene Selassie
03-06-2009, 03:57 PM
Another great issue.

I had some problems with the art. I don't know if it was the inker or what, but there was something wonky going on during the Quicksilver scenes.

I LOVE how Slott acknowledges continuity. NOT JUST OLD CONTINUITY as some critics love to beat into the ground. But Marvel's continuity. He acknowledged Hulk's recent problems, as well as Iron Man's. His handling of Cassie finally seeing the woman who murdered her father was spot on. Hercules and Cho were so spot on that I thought Pak and Van Lente were writing for a moment. U.S. Agent's douchebaggery was at a minimum, so you could still like the guy. Interested where he goes with Jocasta.
Hank Pym though is the greatest thing about the series. This book feels like it is avenging for all the times writers stepped onto Avengers, didn't do their homework, and played up the wifebeater angle. It's happened so many times, I've lost count.

Is the Darkhold stuff going to tie into whatever magic event Marvel has planned?

Ian Ascher
03-06-2009, 05:38 PM
Copied from the previous Mighty Avengers Thread (with a slight edit):

Just read the newest issue and I hate to say it, but Mighty Avengers was just moved to my short list of books to cut.

Ive enjoyed Dan's writing in the past but something is missing here. There's a dynamic that isnt clicking on this book.

I'm all for a line up of "classic" Avengers but just because they're classic Avengers doesn't make them a good team or a good book. The mish-mash of characters here seems just as odd and awekward as others felt about Luke Cage and Spider-man on the same team.

Khoi's pencils don't help either. Kohi is a great guy and he's been part of these boards a long time but they just seem dull... bland... they just don't seem to fit this type of book. I've seen some straight pencils from his first issue in a preview book and they looked good. It may very well be the inker and/or colorist.

I'll give this book the chance I feel it deserves but if it doesn't pick up the pace, it may get the ax on my list (along with JLA... a book Ive bought for YEARS as well) very soon.

khoipham
03-07-2009, 08:35 PM
hey, thanks for buying the books guys. yeah, the art on this series has been a real struggle to get a nice groove among the whole creative team. i like the direction it's going, but i agree that much of the liveliness and energy in the pencils aren't translating. as the guy who gets the art ball rolling, though, i blame myself. so i'm working on that. :)

Mike225
03-07-2009, 09:34 PM
For what it's worth, khoipham, I think you're doing a good job.

Ian Ascher
03-07-2009, 09:55 PM
hey, thanks for buying the books guys. yeah, the art on this series has been a real struggle to get a nice groove among the whole creative team. i like the direction it's going, but i agree that much of the liveliness and energy in the pencils aren't translating. as the guy who gets the art ball rolling, though, i blame myself. so i'm working on that. :)


You know, Khoi, I look at your pencils in the Young Guns preview book and they look much better than in the final version. I know the grind of a monthly book doesn't always help but Marvel isn't doing you justice with the inker/colorist they have on the title.

There's a quality to your pencils that's really unique and I know it'll how through.

You cant take all the blame either... Dan Slott is a great writer but he's got the third string Avengers book. Its gonna be an uphill battle. I just hope it turns around soon.

Eugene Selassie
03-08-2009, 10:55 AM
You know, Khoi, I look at your pencils in the Young Guns preview book and they look much better than in the final version. I know the grind of a monthly book doesn't always help but Marvel isn't doing you justice with the inker/colorist they have on the title.

There's a quality to your pencils that's really unique and I know it'll how through.

You cant take all the blame either... Dan Slott is a great writer but he's got the third string Avengers book. Its gonna be an uphill battle. I just hope it turns around soon.

I agree in thinking it might be the inker or colorist.

3rd string Avengers book????!!! THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!

:har:

khoipham
03-08-2009, 09:28 PM
i don't know about fightin' words, but tactful it sure ain't.

I agree in thinking it might be the inker or colorist.

3rd string Avengers book????!!! THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!

:har:

twistercomics
03-08-2009, 11:07 PM
im ready to step in and ink if ya need sir! I love your pencils!

http://austinjanowsky.deviantart.com

Austin

OZ!
03-09-2009, 03:38 AM
I've thought the inker has been poisoning your work (along with the muted colors) since your herc run(which I love and own all of). Your style needs crisp blacks and high contrast like coipell's (sp?) work gets and they just aren't giving it to you. I still love it, I just hope you get a new inker soon.

OZ!
03-09-2009, 03:46 AM
I started looking at your stuff again khoi and they HAVE to start letting you ink your own stuff. You obviously have a better chemistry with your work(duh, its yours) while the inker just doesn't seem to get it. Dare I begin quoting 'Chasing Amy'?

HaphazardJoy
03-09-2009, 09:24 AM
The artwork overall in the first issue of the run left me a little cold, but I have to say I noticed a marked improvement with this one.

Like I implied in the other thread, still not feeling the story. Too entrenched in what the classic Avenger stories were without regard to current times. For Eugene and folks like him, I can see where it's appealing, and I hate when publishers pander to sales, but this really doesn't grab me; I'm not a huge Avengers fan, partially because of stories like this, but then so much about the set-up and writing strikes me the wrong way.

I never liked the Wundagore/High Evolutionary/New Men stuff to begin with, but I always liked the character of Quicksilver. I liked when they examined how he thought and felt in the great speeds that he moved, how it was a burden to him. Awesome potential for character development there. So lately I've really been off put by his treatment in House of M/Decimation and beyond. That he would do the things he did was hard to swallow, but then to shove him into that role without examining why he would, that's just sloppy and asinine. Then Peter David granted him other powers, a move I resisted because I didn't like what lead to that but appreciated because the book was good overall. Now they've brought him back to form (ie-the form he was in 20 years ago, so far bypassing everything since) , only to be marginalised in the way he has, and I'm rolling my eyes.

Meanwhile, Hulk has returned to classic form of being completely stupid and useless, and is further beaten by Ironman. I liked Planet Hulk, didn't care for WWH too much, but then to go from the depiction of the Hulk there to this is just too much to swallow without explanation.

So far, aside from dealing with Pym's loss and previous reluctance to assume a leadership role, it seems like this story has no presence of mind. It feels like a quality story that should have been told twenty years ago, and as such, is no longer quality.

khoipham
03-09-2009, 11:41 AM
the last page of issue 23 will make this all relevant. :)

Eugene Selassie
03-09-2009, 12:14 PM
the last page of issue 23 will make this all relevant. :)

Its alright Khoi. I knew Slott's Avengers was going to be a hard sell to people who never dug Avengers, or were only exposed to the street level Bendis Avengers. They have every right to not like it. All of the people that told me to give Bendis a year in before making final judgement, I am asking them give the same 12-13 issues to let Slott set up what is going to be, IMHO, a fun ride that actually acknowledges not only its storied lineage, but also other current goings on in the Marvel U, something I feel that New and Dark don't provide. You can be a trend setter, but it'd be nice to play in other people's sand boxes now and then instead of ignoring them.

onizuka43
03-09-2009, 03:05 PM
I have been enjoying the comic so far. I like the characters they have gathered and think once you get out of the whole introduce the new team thing and let them just be Avengers then it will really take off.

Sadly with the change the status quo thing marvel does every week they never really give any team time to develop and establish themselves before the next big event. I mean in the last 4 years there has been about 8 different line-ups of the Avengers if you count Avengers, New Avengers, Mighty Avengers and the new Dark Avengers. Marvel just isn't giving the teams time to really develop and find an audience so I hope Mighty Avengers does get some more time to develop and isn't affected when the big new crisis comes along. Also I am getting so bored with reading the new team origin story.

ronin7
03-09-2009, 09:12 PM
Sorry Khoi, I know what I am saying feels like a kick to the nuts, but I feel Slott's Avengers won't even last 12 issues much less a year. He just doesn't get the Avengers, and with his disregard for how pop culture, and the characters have changed since then. Combined with his complete and utter ignorance of all the work done in the past ten years, or so. The Mighty Avengers only comes off as a decadent third stringer best used as an alternate reality series.

This probably comes off very offensive; it's not meant to be. It's just how I see the fate of Mighty Avengers, and I don't wish anyone to lose their job.

Mike225
03-09-2009, 10:52 PM
He just doesn't get the Avengers. :laugh:

khoipham
03-09-2009, 11:21 PM
hey, I'm not offended, but I will take offense on dan's behalf. Doesn't get the avengers? Really? And I suppose you get the avengers? You don't know how this first arc ends, for crying out loud. I can tolerate informed criticism, but when it comes to dan "getting" the avengers, you simply don't have enough information to make any valid or definitive conclusions.

Mike225
03-09-2009, 11:23 PM
I'll add that if you don't think the two issues so far means he doesn't "get" the Avengers, he probably started reading when Bendis took over.

ronin7
03-10-2009, 07:40 PM
hey, I'm not offended, but I will take offense on dan's behalf. Doesn't get the avengers? Really? And I suppose you get the avengers? You don't know how this first arc ends, for crying out loud. I can tolerate informed criticism, but when it comes to dan "getting" the avengers, you simply don't have enough information to make any valid or definitive conclusions.


The concept of the Avengers is boiled down to simply gathering Earth's mightiest heroes to face threats that no single hero can stand alone, Khoi. But, I think too many writers/fans took that as a literal translation, and didn't account for what it actually meant.

Every time the Avengers changed their roster, or reformed from tragedy; there was always a purpose behind it. In the scheme of Dark Reign; with Tony Stark and SHIELD out of the game, and members of the Avengers scattered, or joining Osborn. There really is no place for the Mighty Avengers.

Rob Norton
03-10-2009, 07:57 PM
The concept of the Avengers is boiled down to simply gathering Earth's mightiest heroes to face threats that no single hero can stand alone, Khoi. But, I think too many writers/fans took that as a literal translation, and didn't account for what it actually meant.

Every time the Avengers changed their roster, or reformed from tragedy; there was always a purpose behind it. In the scheme of Dark Reign; with Tony Stark and SHIELD out of the game, and members of the Avengers scattered, or joining Osborn. There really is no place for the Mighty Avengers.

i know what you are saying about there being no place in a sense, but to me that leaves interesting stories to be told. a group of "would be" avengers running around trying to find a purpose. now obviously thats kinda what New Avengers are doing now as well, but Mighty Avengers has all different characters and a new writer, so it could be equally as entertaining. so the BOOK has a place, if done right.

which is where its missing for me. i, so far, have not enjoyed Slotts stories. there have been moments of interesting dialogue and what not, but over all, im just bored out of my mind. ill give it an issue or two more(maybe 3) but im going to have to drop it if it stays this way. i for one, dont see any reason to give a writer 12 issues or whatever to get into his groove. they need to grab me from issue one, page one. thats just how the comic world works. if i dont like it, i seriously have a hard time to continue buying HOPING it will get better. i did that for a long time after bendis left daredevil. i so loved DD, but i just didnt care after bendis left. all the life was sucked out.

but..thats just me and my tastes. i hope all these books continue on and people enjoy them and artists and writers keep their jobs. just casue i dont like a book doesnt mean im going to go online and tell the world how much whatever creator sucks ass. things change. i used to enjoy mighty avengers. now i dont. i didnt see a need to do dark avengers per se, but i have enjoyed immensly the first 2 issues.
if that makes me a bendis boy, then .... whatever.

my 2 cents

rob
12013

Mike225
03-10-2009, 08:02 PM
You really didn't like Brubaker's run on Daredevil? :huh:

Rob Norton
03-10-2009, 08:06 PM
You really didn't like Brubaker's run on Daredevil? :huh:


nope. i didnt. there were points at the first that i kinda liked, and thought were interesting. but i think its just cause it was so connected to the interesting points that bendis left off. but then it just got so.. i dont know.. blah.
its no disrespect meant to brubaker. i KNOW hes a talented and respected writer. i have read a few things if his that i liked. but this wasnt one.

and also didnt care for the art. again, a very talented and skilled artist. very good at what he does. but hes no ... whats his name... cant remember right now... MALEEV. yeah. that guys art was/is dynamic and incredible.

talented guys all around, just not my cup of tea. and i miss reading DD.

rob
12013

Mike225
03-10-2009, 08:08 PM
nope. i didnt. there were points at the first that i kinda liked, and thought were interesting. but i think its just cause it was so connected to the interesting points that bendis left off. but then it just got so.. i dont know.. blah.
its no disrespect meant to brubaker. i KNOW hes a talented and respected writer. i have read a few things if his that i liked. but this wasnt one.

and also didnt care for the art. again, a very talented and skilled artist. very good at what he does. but hes no ... whats his name... cant remember right now... MALEEV. yeah. that guys art was/is dynamic and incredible.

talented guys all around, just not my cup of tea. and i miss reading DD.

rob
12013I'm not going to try to convince you of anything, but I've honestly never heard this before.

khoipham
03-10-2009, 08:47 PM
i'll grudgingly agree that the formation of this team could've used a few more than 3 books to really lay down the groundworks, but that was the framework we had, so that's what we're doing. but we really want to make this a truly fantastic and wondrous book, with adventures in space against all kinds of crazy villains, and NOT be tied down by Marvel Universe events. That's inevitable, of course, but to the extent that we can do our own thing, we will. so i guess the sin is trying to get to the good stuff too soon.

Eugene Selassie
03-11-2009, 12:25 PM
You guys are doing a damn good job Khoi. You're not going to please everyone, but at least there is something now for pre 2005 Avengers fans.

I can understand the enjoyment of current Avengers to others. I just think its rather convenient that as the Avengers are at their most vulnerable they've been in years, their TOP LEVEL threats have been conveniently absent with 50 issues of New Avengers and 20 of Mighty. Exception being Ultron, but to be honest, Ultron hasn't been handled well since Ultron Unlimited. Earth's Mightiest heroes need Earth's mightiest threats. Savage land mutates, ninjas, a guy with a magic cloak and 2 .45's, weak-sauce Skrulls and half ass Spidey villains don't constitute that threat. At least Slott did his homework to make the AVENGERS villains legit threats and didn't go "Oh, I don't want to do my homework on that, I'll just use villains I know, even though the Avengers would smear them in a fight, but oh well, the people reading Avengers aren't smart enough to know that these villains aren't a legit threat."

Rob Norton
03-11-2009, 02:28 PM
but oh well, the people reading Avengers aren't smart enough to know....


...yeeeah...... :blink:

DemolitionSamurai
03-11-2009, 03:10 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/mackiemackie/468332001236794900.gif
I, too, long for people of my vast intellect to share in my hobby.

Eugene Selassie
03-11-2009, 03:38 PM
I, too, long for people of my vast intellect to share in my hobby.

Hey, I'm not the one insulting your intelligence, the guy writing New Avengers is.

khoipham
03-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Hey, I'm not the one insulting your intelligence, the guy writing New Avengers is.

dammit, eugene, do i have to take offense on brian's behalf now, too?!!! why can't someone like the beatles AND the rolling stones? or transformers AND go-bots? does one have to mutually exclude the other?! :har:

Ian Ascher
03-12-2009, 02:02 PM
Yikes.....

Can't someone like the classic Avengers as well as the New/Dark/Mighty Avengers?

I know I do.

I own all six volumes of Avengers Essentials, I own nearly every single issue of the original series from the Kree/Skrull war though the Collector Saga (might have had a diff. name but that's how I remember it), bought the book when it was relaunched by Busiek and Perez and kept buying it when it was relaunched as New Avengers. I bought Mighty when it was launched, Im buying Dark Avengers now and Ive been reading the Initiative here and there, mostly in trades.

Dan is a hell of a writer. I never thought I would like where he took She-hulk but I did. He's got a very quirky sense of style about him and now he's being thrown onto a very traditional book with a lot of history. Im sure editorial has a BIG hand in what we're seeing/reading. We're getting a very quick set up for something very big.

I wont retract my original comments about Mighty Avengers but I wont go smacking everyone else because they like it or they don't like it. I try to give as many books as fair a shake as I can.

If Dan wows me at the end of this story arc, it'll stay on my list.

Eugene Selassie
03-12-2009, 03:25 PM
My apologies friends.

Enjoy comics.

:banana:

khoipham
03-12-2009, 05:57 PM
this has got to be the most harmonious bendis/slott discussion ever. i feel all squishy inside. i loves me my dw.

ronin7
03-12-2009, 09:39 PM
Look, I'm not saying I hate Dan or his work. I have nothing against him at all. I have read some of his She-Hulk stories and they were good. I also like some of the old Avengers stuff like Under Siege, but I just feel the Avengers needed a change of pace for the new expectations.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me in liking New/Dark Avengers. It would be boring if we all agreed on what we liked.

I just wish Dan and Khoi luck with Mighty Avengers.

galmando
03-12-2009, 10:27 PM
i'm liking what i've read so far, but on a slightly different note, i'd like to say i love your art Khoi and i really think it looks great when coloured straight from pencils

some chap on these boards has posted some in the colouring section, really nice stuff

JoMaC2k
03-13-2009, 01:30 AM
dammit, eugene, do i have to take offense on brian's behalf now, too?!!! why can't someone like the beatles AND the rolling stones? or transformers AND go-bots? does one have to mutually exclude the other?! :har:

I've enjoyed the issues I've read of Mighty Avengers so far, which I picked up for you and Slott, but dude, NOBODY liked the go-bots. Jeezus. :slap: