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Mark Bertolini
01-29-2009, 07:13 PM
Love him or hate him, you have to admit that Brian Bendis is definately shaking up the Marvel U.

Which is a good thing. How many of you really want to keep reading the same old stories over and over? You may not like his characterization, you may not agree with his constant "event" storylines, but at least the man is generating some forward momentum with the 60 year old properties Marvel has.

He wrote arguably the second-best (and maybe even best) Daredevil run in history. His Powers series continues to impress. Ultimate Spider-Man? Well, c'mon, we all know how well that series does.

I understand that a lot of people don't like his "de-construction" of the Avengers franchise, but really, this is the first time I've ever been interested in these characters. And the fact that he started laying the seeds for all of this stuff way back during the "Disassembled" storyline is impressive, since most writers can't seem to plan beyond the next issue.

So, open the floodgates and tell me what you think.

Eugene Selassie
01-29-2009, 09:14 PM
Love him or hate him, you have to admit that Brian Bendis is definately shaking up the Marvel U.

Which is a good thing. How many of you really want to keep reading the same old stories over and over? You may not like his characterization, you may not agree with his constant "event" storylines, but at least the man is generating some forward momentum with the 60 year old properties Marvel has.

He wrote arguably the second-best (and maybe even best) Daredevil run in history. His Powers series continues to impress. Ultimate Spider-Man? Well, c'mon, we all know how well that series does.

I understand that a lot of people don't like his "de-construction" of the Avengers franchise, but really, this is the first time I've ever been interested in these characters. And the fact that he started laying the seeds for all of this stuff way back during the "Disassembled" storyline is impressive, since most writers can't seem to plan beyond the next issue.

So, open the floodgates and tell me what you think.


I LOVE the man's Daredevil run, and his USM remains the only good read of that universe...

My problem with Avengers is that he is not right for that book.

It feels like he didn't do a stitch of research on ANY of the characters. EVERY SINGLE Avenger he writes seems off (Wasp, Ms Marvel, Wonder Man, Black Widow, Hank Pym, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Thor, Tigra...
the list goes on and on). The Bendis apologists used the excuse that "Maybe they're all Skrulls and he's doing it on purpose." That might explain one or two character's mishandling, not the entire Mighty Avengers roster. Yet his PET characters (Luke Cage, Matt Murdock, Jessica Jones) he got right. He totally misses the mark with Ares and ESPECIALLY the Sentry.

The weird thing is that other writers currently at Marvel seem to have a better handle on the Avengers characters (Dan Slott, Christos Gage, Allan Heinberg, Brian Reed, Greg Pak, Fred Van Lente, Abnett and Lanning, Peter David) and would write circles around his Avengers stuff.

Bendis is good at the street level crime noir stuff and with small casts.
Large casts prove that he doesn't know how to shift character voices well, and bottom line, Avengers is a sci-fi/political thriller, not a detective story.

There are so many problems with this book, I don't know where to start.

Jarring pacing, lack of knowledge of the characters, lack of LEGITIMATE THREATS, poor dialogue, sketchy artwork, changing of direction every 8 months but ultimately going nowhere...

It really feels like people buy the book based on Bendis' past accomplishments, or because of Spidey/Wolverine, or because of the feeling of pseudo-importance that this book has (which isn't that hard to do when editorial lets you do whatever the hell you want, regardless if its solid storytelling and true to the characters or not)...NOT BECAUSE THE BOOK IS ACTUALLY GOOD.

Him on Avengers is like Mickey Spillane writing a Tom Clancy novel...out of place and disjointed.

HaphazardJoy
01-29-2009, 09:18 PM
I liked his Mighty Avengers work, but I see what you're saying Eugene.

robbdaman
01-29-2009, 09:27 PM
I'm with Eugene on this as well, in fact he took the words right out of my mouth. Alias and Powers was great stuff, Bendis excels at crime drama but 4 color superhero stuff he's just not right for and never has been. It's like if Stephen King wrote romance novels, it'd just be bad I know.

R~

onizuka43
01-29-2009, 11:29 PM
I've liked some of his avenger stuff and hated some as well, (especially the whole weird House of M aftermath stuff.) and for a team book his stuff moves way to slow. I mean when New Avengers started up we had finally gotten to a steady roster then civil war screwed it up.

The new new avengers had a good concept and good team and then World War Hulk happened and screwed it up again. Sometimes you just need to get in their and tell a story and just have a concrete team for a year.

Aidy
01-30-2009, 05:45 AM
I like Bendis work on the Avengers. I never cared for the team before New Avengers 1. I like the team, I like the way Spiderman is depicted ( a sore point with some) mainly as he is quite annoying anyway. I thought his Captain America was badass, strong and understanding all at the same time. Ironman story over the past two years has been very interesting and unique in that a hero has been completly deconstructed and will have to be built back up from ground level not only winning the respect of his fellow heroes back and the authorities but also the public's repect and his self respect.
As for the characterisation of Ares and the Sentry...well other than a few minis over the past years these guys seemed to be open books to me that a writer could go to town on.

The problem I think some people have with Bendis is bordeing on over protectiveness of a charcter and that my friends is called Fan-boy-dom. We need to stop crying over how a character was 5, 10 and 15 years ago and just get on with enjoying the stories or not buying them and not crying....but then again I thought superman looked cool with long hair. I have no problem with change in comics. I have no problem with a guy like Bendis or Geoff Johns re-inventing a character and his motives or character....they are after all fiction.

and now back to Eugene and Mark in the studio....

WSmith
01-30-2009, 06:40 AM
Bendis rocked New Avengers for me. I have never enjoyed the avengers, And I started at the end of the original and into the first issues of the New. When all hell began breaking loose every 8-10 months I quit. I was looking for a consistent read, like Powers has been, but I do not really enjoy the massive event stuff, and for me it just broke down a really cool book that had just gotten started.

ronin7
01-30-2009, 09:50 AM
New Avengers has been the best Avengers book since Stan Lee and Roy Thomas wrote the book. Before Bendis came on board lame writers like Kurt Busiek kept rehashing the same epic stories that silver and bronze age writers told much better. And I just couldn't bring myself to give a damn about the series. Not to mention the losers they kept adding to the cast. I mean Jocasta? GTFOH! The same with Triathlon and the other generic characters.

Aidy
01-30-2009, 10:02 AM
New Avengers has been the best Avengers book since Stan Lee and Roy Thomas wrote the book. Before Bendis came on board lame writers like Kurt Busiek kept rehashing the same epic stories that silver and bronze age writers told much better. And I just couldn't bring myself to give a damn about the series. Not to mention the losers they kept adding to the cast. I mean Jocasta? GTFOH! The same with Triathlon and the other generic characters.

Well said sir, my sentiments exactly. Triathlon? Starfox? Proton? Shut up.

HaphazardJoy
01-30-2009, 10:07 AM
Well, I'll agree about it being the same lame stories over and over again... epic in scale, but lacking in nuance. New Avengers is a totally different kind of team and set of stories though... one I like better in general, but it's not fair to compare New Avengers directly to classic Avengers (which of course is what Mighty Avengers is here for now), that's like comparing the original X-factor to X-factor now... same title, very different concept.
They're all the same lame stories over and over to some extent, but I can't find the will to care about the same godlike characters facing an ever-changing pantheon of meaningless godlike enemies.
It's one of the problems that plagues books about beings so powerful, in comics and fantasy alike. Look at the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind... even though the second book is one of my favorite epic fantasy novels, I stopped caring shortly thereafter. Who cares about the stories when the main character is practically Jesus with nail-proof skin and the antagonist was already prophesied to fail two millenia ago.

Whatever the next yearly megaevent that promises to change the status quo is, well, it's gonna be fail, I'd give you odds on it, but the only thing that sucks more is just giving in and accepting being status quo.

Eugene Selassie
01-30-2009, 01:09 PM
The problem I think some people have with Bendis is bordeing on over protectiveness of a charcter and that my friends is called Fan-boy-dom. We need to stop crying over how a character was 5, 10 and 15 years ago and just get on with enjoying the stories or not buying them and not crying....but then again I thought superman looked cool with long hair. I have no problem with change in comics.

I wish people would stop assuming. NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH CHANGE. Morrison's New X-Men is one of my ALL TIME favorite runs, same goes with DnA's LEGION LOST and Brubaker's Captain America. My problem is that Bendis is the WRONG guy to have rebooted the Avengers franchise. There are at least a dozen writers who would have been better suited that ARE ACTIVELY WRITING AT MARVEL! The problem is that EVERYONE I've talked with that just jumped on board with New Avengers have never gave past Avengers more than an issue or 2 (in like a f'n 40 year run) and don't know that the characters are being handled wrong. And no one gives a SHIT about 5, 10, or 20 year past personalities. Dan Slott writes a better Hank Pym than Bendis. Ed Brubaker writes a better Cap, Bucky and Black Widow than Bendis. JMS writes a better Thor than Bendis. Warren Ellis writes a better Wolverine than Bendis. Christos Gage writes a better Iron Man than Bendis. Brian Reed writes a better Ms. Marvel than Bendis, Matt Fraction writes a better Iron Fist than Bendis, Paul Jenkins writes a better Sentry than Bendis, Peter David wrote a better Wonder Man than Bendis...

These aren't bronze or silver age writers...these are RIGHT NOW writers.
I'd trust any of those guys with the franchise instead.

We all know that I am NO fan of Mark Millar's work, but I will give him that he understands what the Avengers are SUPPOSED TO BE, WHAT GENRE THE STORY NEEDS TO BE TOLD IN AND HOW EPIC IN SCOPE IT SHOULD BE!
Bendis has told great one offs like Civil War: The Confession, but as a whole, his Avengers stuff is the weakest of his career portfolio. I have NEVER said he is a bad writer, he just isn't right for the book. Its like Jim Starlin writing the Punisher or Garth Ennis writing the Silver Surfer...it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Aidy
01-30-2009, 01:10 PM
I wish people would stop assuming. NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH CHANGE. Morrison's New X-Men is one of my ALL TIME favorite runs, same goes with DnA's LEGION LOST and Brubaker's Captain America. My problem is that Bendis is the WRONG guy to have rebooted the Avengers franchise. There are at least a dozen writers who would have been better suited that ARE ACTIVELY WRITING AT MARVEL! The problem is that EVERYONE I've talked with that just jumped on board with New Avengers have never gave past Avengers more than an issue or 2 (in like a f'n 40 year run) and don't know that the characters are being handled wrong. And no one gives a SHIT about 5, 10, or 20 year past personalities. Dan Slott writes a better Hank Pym than Bendis. Ed Brubaker writes a better Cap, Bucky and Black Widow than Bendis. JMS writes a better Thor than Bendis. Warren Ellis writes a better Wolverine than Bendis. Christos Gage writes a better Iron Man than Bendis. Brian Reed writes a better Ms. Marvel than Bendis, Matt Fraction writes a better Iron Fist than Bendis, Paul Jenkins writes a better Sentry than Bendis, Peter David wrote a better Wonder Man than Bendis...

These aren't bronze or silver age writers...these are RIGHT NOW writers.
I'd trust any of those guys with the franchise instead.

We all know that I am NO fan of Mark Millar's work, but I will give him that he understands what the Avengers are SUPPOSED TO BE, WHAT GENRE THE STORY NEEDS TO BE TOLD IN AND HOW EPIC IN SCOPE IT SHOULD BE!
Bendis has told great one offs like Civil War: The Confession, but as a whole, his Avengers stuff is the weakest of his career portfolio. I have NEVER said he is a bad writer, he just isn't right for the book. Its like Jim Starlin writing the Punisher or Garth Ennis writing the Silver Surfer...it is a disaster waiting to happen.

:slap: I've heard it before Eugene. And I love it....gimme more.

Aaron Walther
01-30-2009, 08:39 PM
I couldn't care less about the Avengers, but I think his work on the Avengers(including his summer crossovers) boarder on insulting. Again, I stress, I don't care about the Avengers, and his ideas and plans for the book have all been fine, but from a pure storytelling standpoint it's horrible.

My biggest complaint about Marvel(and by extension Bendis) is that they like to talk about all the innovative and different stuff they are doing to their books, but they don't follow through with it. What did House of M accomplish, exactly? Every X-book promptly ignored it wrote around it. What we did get was a few pointless miniseries that milked the hardcore fans for a few extra dollars. Civil War? Again, all the solo superhero books, excepting the few that launched out of the event, also ignored it. Even in Bendis' own books, he would write around it(which I almost understand, considering Civil War did interrupt his House of M/Secret Invasion plans).

I don't expect anything different from the latest bold, new direction. 98% of their books will ignore it, and the rest will tool around with it, not doing anything to actually change the status quo while they wait for the next big change. I imagine Dark Avengers will run for a year, telling a single story, before it changes it's status quo.

And don't think I'm bitter about this or anything. I'm not compelled to read everything that Marvel puts out(thank goodness), so I don't care that they are constantly coming up with event banners to put on their books to combat a declining market. I understand and accept the cyclical nature of mainstream comic books, but I can't help thinking there has to be a better way.

Eugene Selassie
01-30-2009, 08:52 PM
:slap: I've heard it before Eugene. And I love it....gimme more.

So I guess I'm the only one on Earth that dislikes Bendis' Avengers, huh Aidy?

:nyah:

quantum1019
01-30-2009, 08:58 PM
I agree with most of what Eugene said.

The classic comics heroes have become classics for a reason. Each hero or team of heroes has a certain essence or core that makes it or them unique. Spider-Man has it, Batman has it, the X-Men have it, the Fantastic Four have it, the Avengers have it, and I could list dozens more. Now, since these are very long-running franchises, they have to be adapted to the times and the different styles of storytelling that each era requires. That is fine and it is to be expected. Writing about a young man named Peter Parker, for example, must be different in the year 2009 than it was for Stan Lee in 1963. Otherwise, the character would not appeal to new readers. But...that core essence that made Spider-Man popular must remain intact. Spider-Man must not suddenly become a Punisher-like character.

Bendis has his moments of being a very good writer. He kicked ass on Daredevil. I have enjoyed many of his works. However, on Avengers, he completely fails to capture the essence of what the Avengers are supposed to be. Because of this, I really really don't like most of his Avengers stuff.

Dan Slott nailed it in the latest Mighty Avengers issue. I hope he keeps doing what he's started doing. Bendis can go write something else and I'll judge it on the merits of whatever that project happens to be, but I don't want to see much more of his Avengers.

Paul Sanderson
01-30-2009, 11:47 PM
Bendis is a very fine writer on (most of) Ultimate Spider-Man and his gritty crime dramas. I agree with most of the opinion before me in this thread that Bendis is definitely not the right person for the Avengers, and indeed has done much damage to that venerable old title.

Mark Bertolini
01-31-2009, 02:57 PM
Bendis is a very fine writer on (most of) Ultimate Spider-Man and his gritty crime dramas. I agree with most of the opinion before me in this thread that Bendis is definitely not the right person for the Avengers, and indeed has done much damage to that venerable old title.


But one man's damage is another man's new experience. I would, in all honesty, never have read an Avengers comic before he took over. That's not to say the only reason I read it is because of Bendis, but it's because he shook the title up and brought new characters in, made it more interesting to me. I could care less about a lot of "classic" Avengers, but a modern roster with Luke Cage, Spider-Man, Echo, etc. is more interesting to me.

And I just want to say that I also hate Marvel for cancelling Alias and bringing out the sub-par Pulse book. Jessica Jones didn't deserve that.

Raven
01-31-2009, 03:37 PM
That's not to say the only reason I read it is because of Bendis, but it's because he shook the title up and brought new characters in, made it more interesting to me. I could care less about a lot of "classic" Avengers, but a modern roster with Luke Cage, Spider-Man, Echo, etc. is more interesting to me.


Maybe you'd be interested in a Bendis X-Men book without mutants? Just because you don't like the Avengers doesn't mean its a good thing to change the roster, the characters, and use the same name for a completely different team.

ronin7
01-31-2009, 04:37 PM
The whole concept of the Avengers is their ever changing roster. Not the big elephant in the room where classic losers like D-Man and Jocasta return for the 5th billion time. Busiek ruined the Avengers and since then knuckle heads who "claim" to be Avengers fans think that Bendis is crap. What's funny is I have seen fans from the classic Lee/Romita-Englehart/Shooter era slamming the runs that came after it. Saying that Bendis is a genius.

Of course, if Alan Moore wrote the Avengers. Paul and company wouldn't be bitching. But Bendis basically is a Alan Moore-lite.

Rob Norton
01-31-2009, 04:38 PM
its so awesome that we all have opinions that we think is the only right one.

i like bendis. hell..i guess you could say i love bendis. ive enjoyed everything he has done on avengers. no..i never really read them before. yes... i came on when he started because of him..but not ONLY just cause of him. i liked the artist coming on as well. it was hyped to be a big thing and i wanted to give it a chance. it looked interesting and fun. and what do you know..? it WAS. if i thought it sucked or was boring or whatever, i would have stopped reading it. simple enough. or you would think so anyway.

and i like the massive overall story going on that is being told. i feel like this is a major upheaval and shaking up of the MARVEL UNIVERSE, and it just happens to be told in Avengers. some people bitch that the avengers book doesnt HAVE avengers in it.. and thats valid, but i dont care. its a big shake up and you KNOW its all coming back to the classic members soon enough. but for now, we are reading a huge storyline of mutants being eliminated, heros fighting heros, alien invasions.. etc etc etc...

its all one big awesome adventure. and im enjoying it. when it comes full circle and real Cap is back, Thor, ironman and all those guys are back n place, and its still a good read, i will keep buying it. if i dont like it, ill stop. but i sure wont bitch and moan all over the net that it "sucks now".

i used to love X-men. its boring to me now. oh well. bummer. at least i got some great stories for a while.

i used to love Daredevil (with Bendis). its boring now. to me. oh well. at least i got some great stories out it of it.

everyone has different tastes. things change. cant please everyone.

rob
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Paul Sanderson
01-31-2009, 06:24 PM
Change is good, of course, but it has to be the right change at the right time. This isn't it. Some people can't tell the difference.

kdmelrose
01-31-2009, 06:52 PM
That's ... quite a load of horse manure.

Y'know, the wrong horse manure at the wrong time.

Rob Norton
01-31-2009, 08:35 PM
This isn't it. Some people can't tell the difference.


how insulting. just cause you dont like something, you assume that other people are just blind or whatever cause you dont like it. what an absolute silly thing to say. speachless over here

rob
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William Blankenship
02-01-2009, 01:36 AM
I'm really apathetic about most of Bendis' work. I liked the Daredevil run, and then I saw his bit on the Daredevil documentary. That ruined everything for me. Seriously, he shoulda just stayed in photos in Wizard's top ten, where he looked like a cool mysterious man. It's when he opened his mouth and an old jewish woman came out that I went "No, I'll have none of that."

:D

3!LL

Anansi_X
02-01-2009, 03:37 AM
I agree with Eugene as well. Bendis kicks ass with USM, Daredevil, and Alias, but his version of the Avengers are kinda weak. Still, I love that he made Luke Cage relevant and badassssss. Sweet Christmas!

Eugene Selassie
02-01-2009, 11:12 AM
The whole concept of the Avengers is their ever changing roster. Not the big elephant in the room where classic losers like D-Man and Jocasta return for the 5th billion time. Busiek ruined the Avengers and since then knuckle heads who "claim" to be Avengers fans think that Bendis is crap. What's funny is I have seen fans from the classic Lee/Romita-Englehart/Shooter era slamming the runs that came after it. Saying that Bendis is a genius.

Of course, if Alan Moore wrote the Avengers. Paul and company wouldn't be bitching. But Bendis basically is a Alan Moore-lite.

Do you have to be such a douchebag about this??

You love Bendis' Avengers, fine. No one called you a knuckle head because you like it.

We don't just want same old same old. We are ok with change. Its just Marvel has a dozen writers on staff RIGHT NOW that would've done a better job of rebooting the Avengers.

Bendis comes off as someone who hates super heroes and will twist the concept to fit his narrow vision.

Like I said...I HATE the majority of Millar's work, but he honestly GETS the Avengers and would've done a much better job at retooling the franchise.

Kevin Lee
02-01-2009, 02:13 PM
I thought superman looked cool with long hair.

I agree. :D

Eugene Selassie
02-02-2009, 03:49 PM
This month's Newsarama preview perfectly explained it.

Paul Sanderson
02-02-2009, 05:37 PM
how insulting. just cause you dont like something, you assume that other people are just blind or whatever cause you dont like it. what an absolute silly thing to say. speachless over here

rob
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Hey, some people just don't know, regardless of opinion. That's just the way it is.

NickGuy
02-02-2009, 05:54 PM
I had never read an avengers book till bendis and new avengers. and i cant stand the way he handles spider-man.

Rob Norton
02-02-2009, 06:35 PM
Hey, some people just don't know, regardless of opinion. That's just the way it is.


hey.. if you just want to keep saying the stupidest things ever... you go right ahead. reflect more on you than anything else

rob
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Eugene Selassie
02-02-2009, 06:41 PM
I had never read an avengers book till bendis and new avengers. and i cant stand the way he handles spider-man.

Same here and that list also includes his Wolverine, Hawkeye, Dr Strange, Sentry, Wasp, Black Widow, Wonder Man, Ms Marvel, Hank Pym, Tigra, and ESPECIALLY Wanda Maximoff.

Paul Sanderson
02-02-2009, 07:38 PM
hey.. if you just want to keep saying the stupidest things ever... you go right ahead. reflect more on you than anything else

rob
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Let me know when you say anything interesting.

Same here and that list also includes his Wolverine, Hawkeye, Dr Strange, Sentry, Wasp, Black Widow, Wonder Man, Ms Marvel, Hank Pym, Tigra, and ESPECIALLY Wanda Maximoff.

Agreed.

Rob Norton
02-02-2009, 08:51 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Let me know when you say anything interesting.





oh you crybaby. you just dont know any better. regardless of your opinion. thats just the way it is.

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