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Mark Bertolini
01-22-2009, 02:11 PM
Hang me if you must, but I really enjoyed this first issue.

I'm enjoying the way Osborn is being developed into the most powerful man in the Marvel U. I like the way he's creating a team by putting existing costumes on pre-existing characters. Venom is the new Spider-Man? Cool. Daken as Wolverine? Like it. Bullseye as the new Hawkeye? Great idea. Moonstone as Ms Marvel...okay, whatever. And Marvel Boy as the new Captain Marvel? About time.

The idea of Norman putting on an Iron Man costume is kinda stupid, but at least he's not pulling out the old rubber mask.

All in all, quality issue, and the Deodato art didn't hurt.

Thoughts?

Mwynn
01-22-2009, 02:13 PM
Isn't Marvel Boy Captain Marvel?

Mark Bertolini
01-22-2009, 02:46 PM
Isn't Marvel Boy Captain Marvel?


Yep, that's why I wrote that in the first post. He is indeed.

galmando
01-22-2009, 03:18 PM
i've not read this yet, but are these Dark Avengers residing in Avengers tower, cuz if i remember correctly, thats Tonys building aint it?

he owns the damn thing, shouldnt he say 'get out'?

maybe i'm wrong

Critters Daddy
01-22-2009, 03:18 PM
i read it...for some reason. I hated secret invasion and havent really read anything marvel since civil war cause I hated how the marvel universe worked after it...

So it was...ok. Theres a weird desire to know why Osborn wants these guys to dress up like other heroes instead of just being themselves or taking on new identities altogether...but that said I don't think I'm gonna last on it for to many issues unless it just picks up and soars...and in my opinion marvel hasn't soared for a long time.

I love Deodato so that might be enough to keep me interested for a while...maybe.

the_beast
01-22-2009, 03:23 PM
i've not read this yet, but are these Dark Avengers residing in Avengers tower, cuz if i remember correctly, thats Tonys building aint it?

he owns the damn thing, shouldnt he say 'get out'?

maybe i'm wrong

If I Recall It Right... Norman Bought Stark Industries Also, So He Owns All Of Stark's Stuff

Mark Bertolini
01-22-2009, 04:58 PM
i've not read this yet, but are these Dark Avengers residing in Avengers tower, cuz if i remember correctly, thats Tonys building aint it?

he owns the damn thing, shouldnt he say 'get out'?

maybe i'm wrong


Norman explains it, Tony paid for the building with SHIELD's money, and when Norman took over SHIELD (and turned it into HAMMER), the building came with it.

galmando
01-22-2009, 06:34 PM
ahh, bummer.

although i still dont get it, cuz Tony already had that building before joining the new avengers and taking the job at shield

NickGuy
01-22-2009, 06:38 PM
ill flip through the trade to check out deodato's sweet art.

Troy Wall
01-22-2009, 07:03 PM
It's really entertaining. They'll have their first fight next issue VS. Doom's pissed off time-traveling wanch that he's always boning. Talk about having ho's in different area codes!

Aidy
01-23-2009, 04:55 AM
I havent picked this up yet...but boy am I looking forward to it...

robbdaman
01-23-2009, 06:31 AM
Norman Osborn a convicted felon and certified nutcase is suddenly the American symbol of liberty. Bendis is wiping his crack with his keyboard writing this tripe.

Aidy
01-23-2009, 06:45 AM
you're last president was a drunk, the one before that a womaniser, the one before that sold arms illegally as Vice President.
So why the hell not?

Moonrider
01-23-2009, 08:43 AM
you're last president was a drunk, the one before that a womaniser, the one before that sold arms illegally as Vice President.
So why the hell not?

Touche.

Mark Bertolini
01-23-2009, 09:48 AM
Norman Osborn a convicted felon and certified nutcase is suddenly the American symbol of liberty. Bendis is wiping his crack with his keyboard writing this tripe.



Wow. You do know it's a comic book, right? It's not real. And it's an entertaining story. If you don't like it, then don't read it.

Aidy
01-23-2009, 10:20 AM
Wow. You do know it's a comic book, right? It's not real. And it's an entertaining story. If you don't like it, then don't read it.

Good point isnt there a guy with a skull for a head working for DEO over at DC? And that Acoholic guy with the tash and the big red metal suite they had running america for the past year in Marvel that would never happen. Implausable....Jesus comics suck. Their so un-realistic.

buhe
01-23-2009, 11:28 AM
If I Recall It Right... Norman Bought Stark Industries Also, So He Owns All Of Stark's Stuff

He didn't buy anything, Stark gave the Avengers Tower to S.H.I.E.L.D. when he was running things and H.A.M.M.E.R. has all of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s stuff, as well as a suit of armor that was probably there for emergencies.

Stark Industries is still his.

The idea of Norman putting on an Iron Man costume is kinda stupid, but at least he's not pulling out the old rubber mask.

Can't really see how he can pull off the Tony/Iron Man bit when the world is focused on him, especially with his criminal record, unless he plans to use a LMD to make it seem that he's two places at once, but part of the reason Tony revealed his identity, which I doubt was a shocker to the public since he owns the armor, was to make it seem that he had nothing to hide since he was now one of the most powerful men on the planet.

I doubt the same would work for Norman if he revealed that he was Iron Patriot.

So it was...ok. Theres a weird desire to know why Osborn wants these guys to dress up like other heroes instead of just being themselves or taking on new identities altogether...but that said I don't think I'm gonna last on it for to many issues unless it just picks up and soars...and in my opinion marvel hasn't soared for a long time.

The Avengers name and characters no doubt works better when it comes to manipulating the public then Thunderbolts where every member was an ex-super-villain, especially with that scam that the original team was pulling when the series started. Norman wants to fool the public as much as possible and the Dark Avengers would do better then the Thunderbolts, despite the popularity they gained, but it would probably be pushing it to make them a patriot team.

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robbdaman
01-23-2009, 03:51 PM
Good point isnt there a guy with a skull for a head working for DEO over at DC? And that Acoholic guy with the tash and the big red metal suite they had running america for the past year in Marvel that would never happen. Implausable....Jesus comics suck. Their so un-realistic.

Sorry I demand a certain level of believability, Bush and Tony Stark were drunks not murdering rapists that had to be confined to a rubber room. Sure American people may be stupid at times but this says they are all retarded just and because Osborn shot the queen Skrull, I cry bullcrap. Murdering rapists don't get jobs as the symbol of liberty. It isn't entertaining because it's just another overprinted, overhyped crap Bendis book that ignores any continuity. I'll save my money for something that is worth $3 and needs the money.

the_beast
01-23-2009, 04:04 PM
He didn't buy anything, Stark gave the Avengers Tower to S.H.I.E.L.D. when he was running things and H.A.M.M.E.R. has all of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s stuff, as well as a suit of armor that was probably there for emergencies.

Stark Industries is still his.

According To Osborn's Wikipedia Entry :

"Last but not least, he buys out and takes control of StarkTech, making it now Oscorp. This gives him hundreds of classified documents and tech specs, along with Tony's armada of Iron Man suits."

Norman Owns All The Stuff Tony Used To, Including The Armors

Eugene Selassie
01-23-2009, 04:06 PM
Sorry I demand a certain level of believability, Bush and Tony Stark were drunks not murdering rapists that had to be confined to a rubber room. Sure American people may be stupid at times but this says they are all retarded just and because Osborn shot the queen Skrull, I cry bullcrap. Murdering rapists don't get jobs as the symbol of liberty. It isn't entertaining because it's just another overprinted, overhyped crap Bendis book that ignores any continuity. I'll save my money for something that is worth $3 and needs the money.

I subscribe to Rob's pamphlet.

:har:

The DarkMind
01-23-2009, 04:25 PM
Sorry I demand a certain level of believability, Bush and Tony Stark were drunks not murdering rapists that had to be confined to a rubber room. Sure American people may be stupid at times but this says they are all retarded just and because Osborn shot the queen Skrull, I cry bullcrap. Murdering rapists don't get jobs as the symbol of liberty. It isn't entertaining because it's just another overprinted, overhyped crap Bendis book that ignores any continuity. I'll save my money for something that is worth $3 and needs the money.

believability? :blink: you're reading about people that can fly, lift tanks over their heads, fire energy beams out of their eyes, and swing around the city on webbing... and you bitch about wanting believability? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

robbdaman
01-23-2009, 04:34 PM
believability? :blink: you're reading about people that can fly, lift tanks over their heads, fire energy beams out of their eyes, and swing around the city on webbing... and you bitch about wanting believability? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'm bitching about human nature, people don't think Ted Bundy would have made a great leader do they? If Ted Bundy had killed one invading alien would that make him better than the psychopath that murdered, raped and defiled women that he was? This is no different, Osborn is basically that, how anyone can think this is good writing is beyond me.

Mwynn
01-23-2009, 04:40 PM
I'll save my money for something that is worth $3 and needs the money.
http://digitalwebbing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136329

The DarkMind
01-23-2009, 05:31 PM
I'm bitching about human nature, people don't think Ted Bundy would have made a great leader do they? If Ted Bundy had killed one invading alien would that make him better than the psychopath that murdered, raped and defiled women that he was? This is no different, Osborn is basically that, how anyone can think this is good writing is beyond me.

if ted bundy was credited with essentially saving the human race... yeah, i can see the general public revering him as a hero and overlooking his past. you put too much faith in society and people in large groups.

Eugene Selassie
01-23-2009, 05:34 PM
if ted bundy was credited with essentially saving the human race... yeah, i can see the general public revering him as a hero and overlooking his past. you put too much faith in society and people in large groups.

I think you put too much faith in Secret Invasion's logic.

:har:

The DarkMind
01-23-2009, 05:45 PM
I think you put too much faith in Secret Invasion's logic.

:har:

There was logic? :laugh:

robbdaman
01-23-2009, 07:25 PM
if ted bundy was credited with essentially saving the human race... yeah, i can see the general public revering him as a hero and overlooking his past. you put too much faith in society and people in large groups.

He shot one Skrull on tv, how is that saving the human race by himself? Like the other guys say that has no logical foundation.

The DarkMind
01-23-2009, 07:35 PM
He shot one Skrull on tv, how is that saving the human race by himself? Like the other guys say that has no logical foundation.

all i implied was that he was credited for saving the human race by shooting that skrull. i never said that he actually did it, much less all on his own. he did what stark and the rest of the heros couldn't do in the publics eye. and why was it in the publics eye? because it was televised and everyone saw it. is some random joe squeezed off that shot instead of osborn, well then that nobody would be "the man that saved the world". the logical foundation behind it is playing up the power of the media. so maybe there is a little bit of believability in it after all.

does that make it any less stupid? nope. not one bit ;)

robbdaman
01-23-2009, 07:50 PM
Actually her death was an afterthought, meant nothing at all, the battle was over. It's like any soldier credited for shooting Hitler really wouldn't have changed the fact that millions of Nazis kills millions of others.

Seriously though if you want to keep believing Bendis knows what he is doing and spending money on drivel you have the right to, I'll buy and read stuff that is actually good instead of fanboy hype.

The DarkMind
01-23-2009, 08:07 PM
Actually her death was an afterthought, meant nothing at all, the battle was over. It's like any soldier credited for shooting Hitler really wouldn't have changed the fact that millions of Nazis kills millions of others.

I agree it wouldn't change any of the facts, but I'm sure that soldier could have made a hell of a run for president on that platform if he chose to :laugh:

Seriously though if you want to keep believing Bendis knows what he is doing and spending money on drivel you have the right to, I'll buy and read stuff that is actually good instead of fanboy hype.

you think i wasted money on this or that i supported it? :huh: where the hell do you even get that i believe Bendis knows what he's doing? :confused: I mean, I already joked about the existence of logic to the whole thing AND clearly stated that despite the very simple explanations to shed a little believability in the magical-land-of-make-believe it was still stupid. either that last part is a complete failure on your part at reading and comprehension, or you just felt like instilling a feeling of supriority in yourself :laugh:

whatever man, it's :thumbs:

robbdaman
01-23-2009, 08:57 PM
If you don't read or support it, why are you arguing for it?

Deadfish07
01-23-2009, 10:24 PM
He shot one Skrull on tv, how is that saving the human race by himself? Like the other guys say that has no logical foundation.

The thing to remember is that the Thunderbolts have been made to look like media darlings since Eillis came on board, complete with an action figure set for the kiddies. Prior to the final showdown with the Skrulls, Osborn has been discrediting Stark. Then came the shot that the world saw.

Remember, the average folk living in this universe don't know all the back story. All they know is the main invasion and the final battle. And in that fight, Norman positioned his Thunderbolts in the front line. Everyone else were unregisted or villains.

End result, Stark became a liability and Fury vanished again. Osborn was most visible, a media favorite and there was a lack of options.

The DarkMind
01-24-2009, 12:41 AM
If you don't read or support it, why are you arguing for it?

you weren't paying attention to the initial desire for "believability" in a world where people fly and shoot lasers out of their eyes part were you? :sure: my "arguement" is about the audacity of wanting believable in a fantasy world and griping when its not there. that's all.

buhe
01-26-2009, 06:05 PM
According To Osborn's Wikipedia Entry :

"Last but not least, he buys out and takes control of StarkTech, making it now Oscorp. This gives him hundreds of classified documents and tech specs, along with Tony's armada of Iron Man suits."

Norman Owns All The Stuff Tony Used To, Including The Armors

Actually, where does it say that in the comics because Dark Avengers #1 reveals that Osborn gets what S.H.I.E.L.D. had since Stark used S.H.I.E.L.D. funds to rebuild Avengers tower and other stuff while Starktech is his property which Pepper is running.

Who ever wrote that part in the wiki must have misunderstood the fact that Osborn and H.A.M.M.E.R. inherited from S.H.I.E.L.D. and not directly from Stark.

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Eugene Selassie
01-26-2009, 07:24 PM
Finally read it.

It read much better the first time though...as Thunderbolts #1.

Mike225
01-26-2009, 09:35 PM
When did Osborn rape someone?

Rob Norton
01-26-2009, 10:52 PM
When did Osborn rape someone?


yeeeeah. i want to read THAT issue. especially if Adam Hughes drew it.



did i say that out loud?

12013

Mike225
01-26-2009, 11:16 PM
Oh, okay. He's talking about Gwen Stacy, then. That wasn't rape.

Biofungus
01-26-2009, 11:33 PM
Oh, okay. He's talking about Gwen Stacy, then. That wasn't rape.
Irregardless...

Scott Story
01-26-2009, 11:33 PM
When did people get the idea that murderers and evil people couldn't be media darlings and symbols of liberty or whatever they want? that's insane.

We've had eight years of a presidential administration that has fought illegal and pointless wars that have killed hundreds of thousands innocent civilians, and lied about everything from spying on their people to who knows what. Yet, through spin and outright lies, these same villains convinced half the country at times that they knew what they were doing.

People are guilty of collective amnesia and self-denial of facts all the time. So, sure, Norman Osborn could be a killer AND a symbol of liberty. That's just modern life.

Biofungus
01-27-2009, 12:01 AM
Media darlings, yes, but considering the position he's been put in, there's no chance in heck that he'd pass the background check... I could see Osborn getting an "out of turn" (ie not end of his term) Presidential Pardon, but not be put in such a position of national security.

Maybe they should restart S.W.O.R.D. and get OJ Simpson to run that ;)

ronin7
01-27-2009, 06:15 PM
Media darlings, yes, but considering the position he's been put in, there's no chance in heck that he'd pass the background check... I could see Osborn getting an "out of turn" (ie not end of his term) Presidential Pardon, but not be put in such a position of national security.

Maybe they should restart S.W.O.R.D. and get OJ Simpson to run that ;)


Given all the corruption in Bush's regime. And the men in power during his term who were down right criminals. Why is it so hard to believe a murderer like Norman can become a high level elected offical?

Biofungus
01-27-2009, 06:44 PM
Because his history is public, and his position would be MUCH more highly scrutinized security wise (since he'd have direct access to weaponry and military forces). Not to mention the examples you cite, while I'm not disagreeing, they are still subjective. Those people have not been brought up on formal charges. I'm pretty sure Norman has, and was *not* acquitted of them.

HaphazardJoy
01-27-2009, 09:23 PM
So far the Dark Reign related stuff is mediocre, EXCEPT for this and Thunderbolts.
The best though, WarMachine, despite... or perhaps because, it has little to do with the other books.

PC812
02-08-2009, 08:18 AM
you're last president was a drunk, the one before that a womaniser, the one before that sold arms illegally as Vice President. So why the hell not?First off, you're comparing alcoholism and womanizing to a man who was convicted of numerous felonies. In the words of Samuel L. Jackson, "ain't no @#$%in' ballpark." Second, in regards to Iran-Contra, Bush the First was neither convicted nor charged. So, whether or not you believe he was involved (I personally believe he was), he was not, in the eyes of the law, a criminal. Osborn was convicted.

you weren't paying attention to the initial desire for "believability" in a world where people fly and shoot lasers out of their eyes part were you? my "arguement" is about the audacity of wanting believable in a fantasy world and griping when its not there. that's all.You still want a degree of believability in the comics. Yes, it's a world where superheroes exist, but it's still a world with real world trappings. So to believe that a man with a history of mental disease and an extremely long criminal record would be allowed to run one of the largest, if not the largest, international peace-keeping security forces just because he put a bullet in the head of a would-be despot is just idiotic. It's the equivalent of making Charles Manson the head of the CIA if he killed Bin Laden. There is no possible scenario where that could be even remotely thought of as a good decision.

Given all the corruption in Bush's regime. And the men in power during his term who were down right criminals. Why is it so hard to believe a murderer like Norman can become a high level elected offical?Criminals in what sense? Look, I hated Bush and his own personal Masters of Evil more than anyone else, but the fact of the matter is they were not convicted felons. Osborn, on the other hand, is.

Moonrider
02-08-2009, 08:25 AM
How many people did Osborn kill so far in his entire comic book career? Two? Seems to me he's still just a teaspoon short of being Ted Bundy or even Saddam Hussein.

PC812
02-08-2009, 08:37 AM
He also performed illegal human experimentation on his employees when testing out his Goblin formula, committed numerous crimes as the Green Goblin, and there was his tendency to toss around bombs in a densely-populated city like New York without care as to who would get hurt as a result. I imagine there have been more than a few people killed as a result of his rampages as the Goblin. Plus, the long history of mental illness. All those things combined together may not excuse a man from being adored by the public for shooting an alien invader, but it definitely would bar him from being appointed as the director of the largest peace-keeping agency on the planet.

Moonrider
02-08-2009, 02:18 PM
He also performed illegal human experimentation on his employees when testing out his Goblin formula, committed numerous crimes as the Green Goblin, and there was his tendency to toss around bombs in a densely-populated city like New York without care as to who would get hurt as a result. I imagine there have been more than a few people killed as a result of his rampages as the Goblin. Plus, the long history of mental illness. All those things combined together may not excuse a man from being adored by the public for shooting an alien invader, but it definitely would bar him from being appointed as the director of the largest peace-keeping agency on the planet.

Well, the CIA once trained Osama Bin Laden. The American government is never above using maniacs to secure national interests. Osborn, without his Green Goblin persona, is still a respected businessman with access to vast amounts of resources from OsCorp. One More Day could also be a factor here, since we don't even know whether he was already outed as the Green Goblin to the general public or not.

Biofungus
02-08-2009, 06:38 PM
One More Day didn't have anything to do with Green Goblin, or any of Spidey's villains (except to make them forget that Peter is Spidey, although it shouldn't actually affect Venom or Eddie Brock, but that's a whole other can of worms), so supposing it may have somehow made people forget about Green Goblin, just doesn't fly.

The CIA/Obama connection was covert, didn't come to light until many years later, and again, nobody was convicted of anything.

The only reason Osborn is a businessman ("respected" depends on the POV of who you talk to. I'm sure the people who make money from him "respect" him) is that unlike law enforcement, you can have a criminal record and still be an executive.

In anything resembling the real world, Osborn would be a "born again" media darling, and probably a more public PR face, but definetly not in charge of of a governmental based security/military force.

Not to sound personal here, but I find it ironic that the "this could happen" argument is being argued by someone from Indonesia, using generalized, "public embarassment" views of America. You don't think that having a convicted murderer and psychopath running the whole of American security wouldn't be the biggest and most globally public of those "embarrassments"?

PC812
02-08-2009, 06:50 PM
Well, the CIA once trained Osama Bin Laden. The American government is never above using maniacs to secure national interests.Bin Laden was an asset used for a particular mission. He wasn't made the Director of the CIA. A similar situation would be like Ellis' Thunderbolts series, where villains were forced to work for the government. That makes sense. But it's not the same as putting a villain in charge of an international security and intelligence agency.

Moonrider
02-08-2009, 09:18 PM
The CIA/Obama connection was covert, didn't come to light until many years later, and again, nobody was convicted of anything.

OSama! :laugh:

Moonrider
02-08-2009, 09:50 PM
Not to sound personal here, but I find it ironic that the "this could happen" argument is being argued by someone from Indonesia, using generalized, "public embarassment" views of America. You don't think that having a convicted murderer and psychopath running the whole of American security wouldn't be the biggest and most globally public of those "embarrassments"?

Hmm, I really don't want to argue political views but my opinions are based on the general fact that in politics, anything can happen. Not only in America can a madman turn into prophets and presidents. The only thing that makes Osborn's ascension from a murdering maniac to a security director sound absurd is the public's knowledge of his criminal background. Which is why I thought about One More Day, or massive hypnosis or whatever that makes people forgive or forget about it. But then, an opressed society will turn to anyone for salvation, since the Earth was invaded by a shapeshifting alien race who uses paranoia and deceit. Weren't most prophets once considered madmen as well? Still, I agree that it's stretching it a bit too far.

In real life, I agree that there are many factors that may prevent a similar situation to happen. But impossible? Hey, it's politics. The real question is not about how a madman can become a security director, but how can the general populace seem to be okay with it? That's something that the Marvel writers must address. Maybe in the Dark Reign: Frontline or something.

Eugene Selassie
02-08-2009, 10:12 PM
I understand that in the Marvel U the public seems to be a bit ignorant, but even in real life there is a limit to this. I can't understand how they can continually try to sell us on the public being so stupid.

Biofungus
02-08-2009, 10:22 PM
OSama! :laugh:
D'oh! :laugh:

PC812
02-09-2009, 09:01 AM
Hmm, I really don't want to argue political views but my opinions are based on the general fact that in politics, anything can happen. Not only in America can a madman turn into prophets and presidents. The only thing that makes Osborn's ascension from a murdering maniac to a security director sound absurd is the public's knowledge of his criminal background.
No, what makes it absurd is the fact that he has a criminal record. Being suspected of crimes is a completely different scenario from actually being convicted of crimes and having served time in a maximum security facility for those crimes. Employment opportunities for convicted felons are limited and they definitely do not include directors of international security and intelligence agencies. Why is this so difficult for you to grasp? :slap:

Raven
02-09-2009, 10:53 AM
Nothing Marvel does these days is supposed to make sense.

X-Force would go after a bunch of bigots, but not an evil Nick Fury type like Osborn?

Spider-Man does nothing? What is he too busy figuring out where his wife went?

How many teams of Avengers are there now? As many as there are X-teams at this point. . .

Raven
02-09-2009, 10:57 AM
if ted bundy was credited with essentially saving the human race... yeah, i can see the general public revering him as a hero and overlooking his past. you put too much faith in society and people in large groups.

Unless of course the human race had been been saved thousands of times, every month practically, in which case it wouldn't be such a big deal.

HaphazardJoy
02-09-2009, 11:07 AM
X-Force would go after a bunch of bigots, but not an evil Nick Fury type like Osborn?

Spider-Man does nothing? What is he too busy figuring out where his wife went?


Well, this is all brand new, nobody has really had time to respond to the event in continuity except with shock. You can bet your ass Spider-man WILL do something, but you have to give him a chance to. Likewise, I bet the X-men will do something, but for the most part, Cyke is mostly concerned with keeping mutantkind alive, something Osborn has not shown himself to be a threat towards... so why would he send X-Force in? Nevermind, even if no one knows it yet in continuity, Osborn has held his hand out to Emma Frost as the leader of mutantkind (in his eyes anyway)... I bet she'll end up rejecting him anyway, but if Osborn is being honest (and he's probably not, but still) than the mutants have no reason to rebel directly against him.

Moonrider
02-09-2009, 11:12 AM
No, what makes it absurd is the fact that he has a criminal record. Being suspected of crimes is a completely different scenario from actually being convicted of crimes and having served time in a maximum security facility for those crimes. Employment opportunities for convicted felons are limited and they definitely do not include directors of international security and intelligence agencies. Why is this so difficult for you to grasp? :slap:


Not that I don't understand what you're saying, but you don't seem to understand what I'm saying. In politics, ANYTHING can happen. Being a director of SHIELD or HAMMER is not just some factory job, it's a political position. Having a criminal record is irrelevant if the government declare that he is necessary. Even in factory jobs, it always depend on the policy of the specific company to accept or deny applicants with criminal records. What should be the concern is the repercussion of that decision.

WilliamStormeSmith
02-09-2009, 11:17 AM
Finally read it! Probably the best thing Bendis has written in FOUR years. Wonder how much he was influenced by Ellis's run on T-Bolts?