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Aidy
01-20-2009, 09:27 AM
Never been a big fan of Mr Allen, Wally was the Flash I grew up with so I was never one of the people crying about his return - same for Hal Jordan - But I recall an interview with Marv Wolfman that said he had left clues in the original Crisis that a smart writer could use to bring Allen back to the land of the living. Now...baring in mind his brief cameo in Infinte Crisis, and his supposed return in the Lightning Saga - which turned out to be Wally's return having hardly had enough time to miss Wally in the DCU anyway. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if Grant Morrison has followed Marv's clues and broguth back Allen in this way or if he has just - as I imagine - just forced this return because Didio has a lobby for Allen and wanted him back anyway possible?

Also if Allen is 'running on borrowed time' (did I read this somewhere in an interview, or am I reading between the lines? Am I making stuff up or is my brain boiled from Morrison's cosmic writings) and the Black Skier Dude is after his ass....does this mean Barry Allen will become a Black Lantern?
Any thoughts guys?

Moonrider
01-20-2009, 10:54 AM
Unlikely. He'll be back in the pages of The Flash as The Flash, Wally kinda just step aside to take care of his kids. I think Morrison did use Wolfman's clues though the details are still somewhat unclear. Barry was transformed into pure information during Crisis of Infinite Earths and in that form, knowing things, he goes back to the present reassuming his material form. But technically he's dead so The Black Racer/Black Flash is after his ass. So Barry is running on borrowed time, but long enough to keep him alive and kicking in the current DCU until some other crossover kills him again.

Hmm...that sound pretty much like the workaround that Marvel seemingly wanted to do with Captain Marvel before Secret Invasion.

the_beast
01-20-2009, 02:04 PM
I'm A Wally Fan, He's The Flash To Me And Always Will Be

Eugene Selassie
01-20-2009, 03:55 PM
I prefer Wally as well, but unfortunately DC painted him into a corner with the kids, and aging them.

I thought it a MASTER STROKE that Johns had Linda Park lose the kids at the end of Blitz (Flash #200) as it was the most emotionally tense Flash story of his entire run.

I was pissed when Johns undid that toward the end of his run. I like happy endings, but this one felt forced.

Paul Sanderson
01-20-2009, 10:41 PM
I'm thrilled that Barry's back and hope it's for the long term. Well done, DC :D

ponyrl
01-23-2009, 12:07 AM
Waid/Weringo was the best run on that book.

Period!

Eugene Selassie
01-23-2009, 12:31 PM
Waid/Weringo was the best run on that book.

Period!

I want to agree, but Johns/Kolins is still the #1 team to me.

Johns stepped up to the challenge of making the Rogues bad ass and cool, while Waid decided to take them off the board.

Johns gets bonus points for that.

the_beast
01-23-2009, 04:06 PM
I Agree.... Johns/Kolins Was My Favorite

Paul Sanderson
01-23-2009, 04:18 PM
Some of the Allen run on the series featured some fine creative teams too. Of the West run, I think Johns/Kolins is my favourite as well.

xombey
01-23-2009, 04:41 PM
Hmm...that sound pretty much like the workaround that Marvel seemingly wanted to do with Captain Marvel before Secret Invasion.
not to go off on a tangent (for too long), but are you saying that mvl has brought back captain marvel? does this mean that gwen stacy is the only character (thus far) never to return form the dead? i'm sure this is old news to most, but i haven't kept up with continuity for years. i just follow certain creators and interesting storylines.

Eugene Selassie
01-23-2009, 05:07 PM
not to go off on a tangent (for too long), but are you saying that mvl has brought back captain marvel? does this mean that gwen stacy is the only character (thus far) never to return form the dead? i'm sure this is old news to most, but i haven't kept up with continuity for years. i just follow certain creators and interesting storylines.

You don't want to know....

TRUST ME.

Paul Sanderson
01-23-2009, 07:42 PM
You don't want to know....

TRUST ME.

:laugh:

Moonrider
01-23-2009, 08:17 PM
not to go off on a tangent (for too long), but are you saying that mvl has brought back captain marvel? does this mean that gwen stacy is the only character (thus far) never to return form the dead? i'm sure this is old news to most, but i haven't kept up with continuity for years. i just follow certain creators and interesting storylines.

No, he's not back. But Marvel tried to make us believe that he's back just to cover up the obvious plot twist.

ponyrl
01-26-2009, 12:11 AM
I want to agree, but Johns/Kolins is still the #1 team to me.

Johns stepped up to the challenge of making the Rogues bad ass and cool, while Waid decided to take them off the board.

Johns gets bonus points for that.
Only story I though good from their run was the Prof. 'Zoom' storyline.

quantum1019
01-28-2009, 09:13 PM
I'm thrilled that Barry's back and hope it's for the long term. Well done, DC


I feel the same way. I like Wally and have followed his titles for years, but Barry Allen is the real Flash, from the Silver Age forward. He's as much an icon to us "old" comics fans as Hal Jordan, Bruce Wayne, Oliver Queen and Dick Grayson are.

Paul Sanderson
01-29-2009, 12:38 AM
Agreed. For me, he's the Flash, the one I grew up with. With the right writer onboard, he's still a very viable character.

Buckyrig
01-29-2009, 10:12 AM
He's a piece of cardboard with a square jaw. The ability to run really fast was the entirety of Barry's personality for the majority of his existence. You're all on goofy pills.

Paul Sanderson
01-29-2009, 04:46 PM
And how many Barry Allen Flash issues have you read, Denny?

Buckyrig
01-29-2009, 04:50 PM
A well-scattered smattering I'd say. Couple issues of Flash and/or Justice Leagues here and there in 70s and early 80s, first Justice League Archives and a couple of those Silver Age reprints of Flash,etc.

Chin!

I did leave out the fact that Barry was a police scientist. I think that was also supposed to count as "personality". :nyah:

Paul Sanderson
01-29-2009, 05:08 PM
Couple issues, eh? A few reprints. I see...

Buckyrig
01-29-2009, 05:12 PM
:laugh:

WSSmith
01-29-2009, 05:55 PM
Look you don't have to like Barry Allen, but he is the FLASH, Wally West is Kid Flash. Go back grab an ESSENTIAL FLASH and you will read some of the most interesting and intelligent stories ever to grace the genre's called comic books and sci-fi. I personally felt Barry Allen was the first character to do it all. He got married first, killed first, went on trial first. He had an unbelievable ability to traipse around the Universe and still fit in, something that usually only Superman could pull off. He was able to fight a Rogue's Gallery made up of fiends, sci- fi villains, and non-powered bad guys only rivaled by Bats. He solved problems as detective, scientist, cop, and super hero.

Great adventures, some of the best covers, and certainly the only hero, until Booster Gold, to pull off time travel. Plus the most heroic death in the history of comics. You can prefer Wally, but give Barry RESPECT!

Buckyrig
01-29-2009, 05:57 PM
You can prefer Wally, but give Barry RESPECT!

But...he's fictional. :confused:

quantum1019
01-29-2009, 08:53 PM
Look you don't have to like Barry Allen, but he is the FLASH, Wally West is Kid Flash. Go back grab an ESSENTIAL FLASH and you will read some of the most interesting and intelligent stories ever to grace the genre's called comic books and sci-fi. I personally felt Barry Allen was the first character to do it all. He got married first, killed first, went on trial first. He had an unbelievable ability to traipse around the Universe and still fit in, something that usually only Superman could pull off. He was able to fight a Rogue's Gallery made up of fiends, sci- fi villains, and non-powered bad guys only rivaled by Bats. He solved problems as detective, scientist, cop, and super hero.

Great adventures, some of the best covers, and certainly the only hero, until Booster Gold, to pull off time travel. Plus the most heroic death in the history of comics. You can prefer Wally, but give Barry RESPECT!


Those Silver Age Flash stories were incredible. They were, in my opinion, among the very best of the Silver Age, worthy of being placed right up there alongside Lee and Kirby's Fantastic Four and Lee and Ditko's Spider-Man as the best the era had to offer.

Nitecrawlah2
01-29-2009, 09:13 PM
I prefer Wally as well, but unfortunately DC painted him into a corner with the kids, and aging them.

I thought it a MASTER STROKE that Johns had Linda Park lose the kids at the end of Blitz (Flash #200) as it was the most emotionally tense Flash story of his entire run.

I was pissed when Johns undid that toward the end of his run. I like happy endings, but this one felt forced.
I'm with you on that one. Johns/Kolins did wonders in working in all the great stuff that Waid/Wieringo (the Flash I grew up with) incorporated, as well as making their own stamp with that ferociously revamped Rogue's Gallery and interesting supporting characters. I loved the whole build-up to Flash 200, and was sad to see some of that brilliant work retconned towards the end.

Eugene Selassie
01-29-2009, 09:38 PM
I'm with you on that one. Johns/Kolins did wonders in working in all the great stuff that Waid/Wieringo (the Flash I grew up with) incorporated, as well as making their own stamp with that ferociously revamped Rogue's Gallery and interesting supporting characters. I loved the whole build-up to Flash 200, and was sad to see some of that brilliant work retconned towards the end.

I know...it feels like the book lost some of the magic when Scott Kolins left.

I also miss Chyre and Morillo.

I really hope those characters are used when Barry comes back.

Paul Sanderson
01-29-2009, 10:03 PM
Well said WSSmith/quantum1019. Nice to see some fellow Barry fans here :)

Eugene Selassie
01-29-2009, 11:31 PM
Hey, I completely dig Barry, but MANY of those stories were bad and I wish some people would take off the rose colored glasses.

I'd like modern writers to tackle Barry, but I'm upset that the ONE piece of forward momentum in comics (Barry passing the torch to Wally) is now being undone.

WSSmith
01-30-2009, 12:01 AM
Hell I've got all the Johns/ Kolin run sitting here over my left shoulder, and in front of it a very awesome run by by Waid and Augustyn. They are two of my favorite runs in comic history, all Wally. In fact might reread Iron Heights tonight, awesome one shot.

Barry was the victim of his own success. He may have seemed boring in personality because he was always busy, he was the Frickin Flash. I was reading the Flash when Barry died. It was pretty awesome at the time, and before that it had some of the most interesting mysteries and plot's ever. Barry was always looking like Gus Grissom like "What the flip just happened and how am i going to figure it out". The costume party was like the pinnacle of comic panel by panel mystery. He was never able to have a run like Oneill/ Adams did w / GL and GA. Dude was flying across the universe to save a world of camel people, and coming back to some downright CREEPY stories about Capt. Cold, The Top, The Turtle, GOLDEN GLIDER Especially! This is why Johns had to REVAMP the villains, Waid didnt use them much he went new and that left Geoff a lot of fertile ground to plant ideas. And since Geoff Johns is a genius it was awesome.

So all Flashes kick ass to me, Jay Garrick rules, hell even Bart's death was cool.

hellblazer72
01-30-2009, 01:55 AM
i'm a big barry fan, he was the flash i grew up with and i'm happy to see him back.. i was never a fan of wally until waid took over the book, weiringo just made those stories better...and the real killer of wally was marriage...

Paul Sanderson
01-30-2009, 04:27 AM
Hey, I completely dig Barry, but MANY of those stories were bad and I wish some people would take off the rose colored glasses.

Most of those stories featured good old fashioned quality storytelling, which is sadly lacking from much of the industry today. No rose coloured glasses here, just simple realism.

I'd like modern writers to tackle Barry, but I'm upset that the ONE piece of forward momentum in comics (Barry passing the torch to Wally) is now being undone.

Well, that's comics for you. Barry should never have been killed off in the first place. Sometimes things happen that we don't like, just like in life itself. Us Barry fans are happy, though.

Buckyrig
01-30-2009, 10:50 AM
Well, that's comics for you. Barry should never have been killed off in the first place. Sometimes things happen that we don't like, just like in life itself. Us Barry fans are happy, though.

While it was more of a marketing decision than a purely story-driven one, Barry's death is one of a very small handful that worked and worked long term. The idea of advancing the DCU to a third generation with Wally (and later Kyle) is a natural progression. At the time of Barry's death, his character had already had a much longer run than Jay Garrick. Comics may be an odd beast when it comes to dealing with time, but the idea of moving forward is good.

What would be cool would be for the DCU to move forward in general and maybe some more OGNs and such about popular characters from the past, set in their proper era. I think there is something to seeing Hal and Barry et al in the late 50s/early 60s.

Hell, I keep trying to shove New Frontier down people's throats.

Moonrider
01-30-2009, 11:08 AM
I keep thinking of an alternate reality where Barry doesn't die and Kyle Rayner doesn't exist. Would the DCU be a better world? There's no telling, but we do know that we would miss great stories like Green Lantern Rebirth and those Wally issues with Geoff Johns without those character deaths. Sometimes character death is deemed unnecessary, but what do we know? We're just going along for the ride.

Aidy
01-30-2009, 12:21 PM
But Wally wouldnt have been the Wally we all knew and loved with out the death of Uncle Barry...although his horny dog routine in the JLI was a little misplaced.

Paul Sanderson
01-30-2009, 04:47 PM
I keep thinking of an alternate reality where Barry doesn't die and Kyle Rayner doesn't exist. Would the DCU be a better world? There's no telling, but we do know that we would miss great stories like Green Lantern Rebirth and those Wally issues with Geoff Johns without those character deaths. Sometimes character death is deemed unnecessary, but what do we know? We're just going along for the ride.

True, but we probably would have different, equally excellent, stories instead. Things like this balance out in the end, whichever way you go.

I thought Wally was very well handled in the early issues of The New Teen Titans, back when that book was the best being produced (early 80s), Aidy. Presumably, the character would have continued to develop, albeit in different ways (but potentially equally as good) had Barry not been killed off back then. There's no way of knowing. These 'what ifs' are interesting to think about, though.

Moonrider
01-30-2009, 10:26 PM
Well, like I said, Frank. There's no telling. Perhaps we'll probably bitch about something else, and wishes that they would kill Barry already.

Paul Sanderson
01-30-2009, 11:44 PM
You're probably right, Moonie.

WSSmith
01-31-2009, 01:01 AM
Wally had some great development, Marv Wolfman/ George Perez in the New Teen Titans. They really developed him as a reluctant super hero. He was in love with Raven, had problems with his parents, quit to go to college, was intimidated by Dick, Bruce, and Barry. I always thought Wally was written maybe the most realistically of all the Titans. He was probably my favorite Titan about the time Barry died. So it really worked for me Wally HAD to be a super hero, and a damn good one to replace Barry. Barry's death was so wicked, it all fell into place. Then Johns really just let Wally grow up, Kolins art was so different, they just ratcheted up the villains for the 21st century. Getting married was not my fav, i was happy as hell when Linda left town. The Flash may be the one character DC hasn't screwed up, maybe we can trust them with this one? wait i forgot Impulse, duh

Paul Sanderson
01-31-2009, 04:34 AM
Well said, mate.

Mr.Musgrave
02-01-2009, 02:59 PM
Most of those stories featured good old fashioned quality storytelling, which is sadly lacking from much of the industry today. No rose coloured glasses here, just simple realism

No, some of them did. Most of them were the worst the industry ever had to offer. Cheesy 60's DC slop.

Barry Allen is a cardboard character whose most interesting character trait was that he could never be on time for anything. And if he ends one more sentence with "Flash fact" I am going to split my own head open.

Eugene Selassie
02-01-2009, 03:04 PM
No, some of them did. Most of them were the worst the industry ever had to offer. Cheesy 60's DC slop.

Barry Allen is a cardboard character whose most interesting character trait was that he could never be on time for anything. And if he ends one more sentence with "Flash fact" I am going to split my own head open.

We don't often agree Musgrave, so I'll cherish this one time...

<putting on Today Was a Good Day by Ice Cube>

Back to the discussion.

:har:

Paul Sanderson
02-01-2009, 04:23 PM
Musgrave just hates that stories of the past were often better than those of today. He just can't wrap his brain around that fact. Sad but true. Move on...

Eugene Selassie
02-01-2009, 05:03 PM
Musgrave just hates that stories of the past were often better than those of today. He just can't wrap his brain around that fact. Sad but true. Move on...

Some stories were. Some stories weren't.

I'll admit Paul, these days many writers don't know the basic facets of storytelling and many comics today reflect it.

But lets not act like stories of the golden/silver/bronze age were all great works of literature. Many of them were pure crap.

There are are different reasons why comics of any age suck, but no age is that much better or worse than another age.

Buckyrig
02-01-2009, 06:06 PM
stories of the past were often better than those of today.

:laugh:

Is this the official slogan of Trinity Comics yet?

Mr.Musgrave
02-01-2009, 07:33 PM
Musgrave just hates that stories of the past were often better than those of today. He just can't wrap his brain around that fact. Sad but true. Move on...


I have dozens of collected Marvel 1960's books and I haven't regularly read comics as a whole in years. I just don't have an insane fixation on cardboard cut out characters. I don't pretend that older equals better.

So try again, fanboy.

Mr.Musgrave
02-01-2009, 07:34 PM
:laugh:

Is this the official slogan of Trinity Comics yet?


I though it was "He's not Batman!"

Paul Sanderson
02-01-2009, 07:39 PM
http://www.the-wraith.com/forum/images/smiles/sleep_125.gif

Raven
02-02-2009, 09:32 AM
We don't often agree Musgrave, so I'll cherish this one time...

<putting on Today Was a Good Day by Ice Cube>

Back to the discussion.

:har:

I like Barry. He is a grown-up, not a man-child like Wally.
I didn't like him before, but this new, revved up Barry, a guy who takes his time to think while moving at super-speed, is much more interesting than a kid sidekick.

Eugene Selassie
02-02-2009, 11:06 AM
I like Barry. He is a grown-up, not a man-child like Wally.
I didn't like him before, but this new, revved up Barry, a guy who takes his time to think while moving at super-speed, is much more interesting than a kid sidekick.

Kid sidekick???

Did you read Waid/Augustyn run???

Or Waid/Wieringo?

Or Johns/Kolins?

:mad:

Aidy
02-02-2009, 11:28 AM
Kid sidekick???

Did you read Waid/Augustyn run???

Or Waid/Wieringo?

Or Johns/Kolins?

:mad:

I dont think he likes him Eugene...better tell him he's a fan boy...or whatever it is you do when someone expresses an opinon that contradicts your own.

Buckyrig
02-02-2009, 11:36 AM
So...so...Barry can be...the dad I never had? :cry:

Aidy
02-02-2009, 11:41 AM
So...so...Barry can be...the dad I never had? :cry:

He's the Dad the World never had.... :cry: :cry: :cry:

Eugene Selassie
02-02-2009, 11:56 AM
I dont think he likes him Eugene...better tell him he's a fan boy...or whatever it is you do when someone expresses an opinon that contradicts your own.


Wow...if we round up all of your posts....

It appears that you're nothing but a troll that bothers me because I don't tow the bandwagon line of what is the fad or the hype.

Aidy
02-02-2009, 11:59 AM
Wow...if we round up all of your posts....

It appears that you're nothing but a troll that bothers me because I don't tow the bandwagon line of what is the fad or the hype.



Its love...but you're probably right...am I troll...Hmm. Food for thought. I may start a thread. If you counted up all my posts you'd realise that most of it is just very, very funny.

Eugene Selassie
02-02-2009, 02:05 PM
Its love...but you're probably right...am I troll...Hmm. Food for thought. I may start a thread. If you counted up all my posts you'd realise that most of it is just very, very funny.

Funny or not.

A troll is a troll.

I don't follow specific people on these or any boards, wait for them to post, then pop shots at them...

You ADMIT that you do it to me.

Ergo Aidy=Troll.

:slap:

Buckyrig
02-02-2009, 02:08 PM
You need to get out (http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136990) more.

kdmelrose
02-02-2009, 02:12 PM
Prolonged Internet usage apparently leads to thin skin.

Enough of the slap-fighting, kids.

If you can't cope with someone taking a few shots at all-too-serious discussions about fictional men in tights, then utilize the site's "ignore" feature.

Buckyrig
02-02-2009, 02:15 PM
Yeah! Everyone put Melrose on ignore. That guy's a jerk. :man:

Newt
02-02-2009, 02:15 PM
Sorry kdmelrose is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

Son of a... :mad:

kdmelrose
02-02-2009, 02:16 PM
http://badelements.net/haha.jpg

Buckyrig
02-02-2009, 02:19 PM
Sorry kdmelrose is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

http://www.portfolio.com/images/feeds/blogs/clockwork-large.jpg

Eugene Selassie
02-02-2009, 02:19 PM
Prolonged Internet usage apparently leads to thin skin.

Enough of the slap-fighting, kids.

If you can't cope with someone taking a few shots at all-too-serious discussions about fictional men in tights, then utilize the site's "ignore" feature.

The thing is if its ok for him to take shots at me, why is it a problem when I call them out on it?

Eugene Selassie
02-02-2009, 02:20 PM
http://badelements.net/haha.jpg

LMFAO!!!!

Raven
02-02-2009, 10:10 PM
Kid sidekick???

Did you read Waid/Augustyn run???

Or Waid/Wieringo?

Or Johns/Kolins?

:mad:

I've never really liked the Flash, I prefer the old guy to Wally.

But Barry, he seems to be a thinker and a scientist, as well as having knowledge brought back from the "other side". He's run through the Bleed, something even Planetary hasn't done, he is set-up to be a very cool Flash, if the right writer can handle it.

Paul Sanderson
02-02-2009, 11:30 PM
And that's the thing, it's always dependent on the writer. Any character can be viable with the right people involved.

Buckyrig
02-02-2009, 11:34 PM
And that's the thing, it's always dependent on the writer. Any character can be viable with the right people involved.

So then why is it an improvement to replace Wally with Barry?

Paul Sanderson
02-02-2009, 11:59 PM
I never said it was. I said I prefer Barry to Wally. I never said I disliked Wally, though. I'm a fan of Barry, always have been.

WilliamStormeSmith
02-03-2009, 12:30 AM
Look I think its pretty much equal. The old Barry stories were gorundbreaking. There is no denying it! But at one time in recent comics history Johns/ Kolin on Flash was probably the best comic being written!

The thing is the 34 year olds like me and older are ruling the comic world now, and we grew up huge fans of Barry because of a lil mini series in 1986 called Crisis on Infinite Earths, and a heap of other comics, like Barry killing ZOOM -- and Iris being killed, but she survived always get that confused. My favorite the death of Golden Glider. Barry was always a ground breaker. I'm the happiest I've been with comics in like 4 years to see him back.

One day you twenty somethings will be in charge and you can kill Barry again, and Wally can be Flash again.

Buckyrig
02-03-2009, 12:46 AM
I never said it was. I said I prefer Barry to Wally. I never said I disliked Wally, though. I'm a fan of Barry, always have been.

Ok, now I'm dizzy. :blink:

Paul Sanderson
02-03-2009, 01:02 AM
I'm sure there's drugs for that :p

Moonrider
02-03-2009, 02:16 AM
The thing is the 34 year olds like me and older are ruling the comic world now, and we grew up huge fans of Barry because of a lil mini series in 1986 called Crisis on Infinite Earths, and a heap of other comics, like Barry killing ZOOM -- and Iris being killed, but she survived always get that confused. My favorite the death of Golden Glider. Barry was always a ground breaker. I'm the happiest I've been with comics in like 4 years to see him back.

One day you twenty somethings will be in charge and you can kill Barry again, and Wally can be Flash again.

And we wonder why kids these days don't read comics anymore. Comics are for old people.

ponyrl
02-03-2009, 03:19 AM
Whoa, hold the phone on that 34 yr olds. I'm that old and I liked Wally better than Barry.

Wally had more personality than barry. you read wally's series up until they change the hellout of it, and you'll see how well developed he was.

Wally always felt more "solid" as a character, then Barry.

Remember the story in issues 70 thru 77 give or take an issue, where they brought barry back but it was Zoom.

GREAT story. Wally had to overcome the obstacle of being in the shadow of Barry, by becoming faster than barry.

G-R-E-A-T story.

I'm a wally fan, sans the kids (god who the hell decided to screw him up that way, I mean yeah give him kids, but make them normal so it's not that failed experiment call Impulse) who was handled better in the past and did not deserve the death he got.