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View Full Version : Final Crisis- how are you liking it so far? (#6 spoilers)


Saul Haber
01-18-2009, 06:08 PM
I just read FC #6 and I'm enjoying the series more and more with each issue. A lot of people are focusing on Batman's apparent death, but I'm just going along for the ride and not worrying too much about Batman being dead, since we all know that it will not be permanent (he may even be back in the next issue for all we know). The story is moving along really well and Morrison packs SO much into each issue. This can be a little annoying at times since you don't necessarily understand 100% of what is going on, but overall I'm just enjoying whatever I AM following. So many cool ideas and great character moments. Every character that gets a chance to speak says something significant to that character, you know what I mean? The inconsistent artwork is a bummer (I wish they would have Mahnke do the whole thing), but it tells the story clearly and I'm not getting too distracted by it.
Well, you know my opinion, but I can see how this series is probably not everyone's cup 'o tea, so I was curious as to your opinion...

robbdaman
01-18-2009, 07:06 PM
Still think it is mostly nonsensical and is heavily overwritten yet has missing information everywhere, it reads poorly overall. DC embraces teh suck on FC.

R~

Paul Sanderson
01-18-2009, 07:14 PM
Still think it is mostly nonsensical and is heavily overwritten yet has missing information everywhere, it reads poorly overall. DC embraces teh suck on FC.

R~

Yep, it's overwritten, overwrought nonsense.

Moonrider
01-19-2009, 02:52 AM
Having exposed to Morrison's non-linear approach in storytelling with Seven Soldiers, I guess it makes me appreciate Final Crisis more than those who didn't...uh, 'get it'. Sorry, don't know how else to put it. There are truly grand ideas in it, that perhaps didn't get conveyed as clearly as it should. Ironically, I feel that this is due to the lack of tie-ins that would explain the storylines in a more linear manner. Something that was deliberately done by DC in order to prevent 'event fatigue' that everybody seem to suffer from Infinite Crisis and everything Marvel has done these past few years.

It's basically just a simple invasion story that involve the New Gods and multiple Earths, only this time the bad guys are not virtually harmless green shapeshifters with a grudge than can easily be defeated in one day through an isolated scuffle in New York City. It's bleak, it's dark, it's disturbing. While I understand why many people would be put off by the weird and unconventional way of Morrison's storytelling (and the lateness of each issues), I still say it's a great event that you really don't know where it would lead. It's not in any way perfect, but it's not as crappy as anyone would thought either if you at least try to get a grasp of the story. And hey, Batman's death is still hundreds of times better than The Wasp biting the dust.

BIGROD
01-19-2009, 11:16 AM
Overly-convoluted + zero art consistency = garbage :confused:

And I've read every issue.

:yuk:

Eugene Selassie
01-19-2009, 02:13 PM
I read Seven Soldiers, and even I had to scratch my head at times...BUT this is still a great story that ACTUALLY FEELS IMPORTANT.

I eat lame green shapeshifters for breakfast.

JLillustrator
01-20-2009, 12:07 AM
If all of the evil New Gods are resurrected in Final Crisis...

WHERE THE HELL ARE THE GOOD GODS?!?

Metron isn't even a New God, and he's back; Mister Miracle is a human male, even the lame ass Black Racer is still around. Why is he after the Flash?

Where's Lightray, Highfather, Orion and the others?

BTW, what if Batman spared one of the clones, and used it to confront Darkseid? "Gotcha" indeed.

Plus, wasn't there a rumor that Batman was going to become a New God?

Paul Sanderson
01-20-2009, 01:15 AM
Overly-convoluted + zero art consistency = garbage :confused:

And I've read every issue.

:yuk:

heh ;)

Aidy
01-20-2009, 04:38 AM
If all of the evil New Gods are resurrected in Final Crisis...

WHERE THE HELL ARE THE GOOD GODS?!?

Metron isn't even a New God, and he's back; Mister Miracle is a human male, even the lame ass Black Racer is still around. Why is he after the Flash?

Where's Lightray, Highfather, Orion and the others?

BTW, what if Batman spared one of the clones, and used it to confront Darkseid? "Gotcha" indeed.

Plus, wasn't there a rumor that Batman was going to become a New God?

If you think about who the Black Racer is and you understand the history of the Flash...you'll figure that one out.

loki5
01-27-2009, 01:10 PM
Yeah, I gotta' admit I'm not a big Morrison fan (save his brilliant Doom Patrol), so maybe I'm a bit biased. But I don't care. I'm sick and tired of people defending his incomprehensible, scattershot, bizarre storytelling approach by saying the people who don't like it just don't "get it". Enough already. The man has some innovative and fun ideas. He also writes some nice character moments. But the whole is often weaker than the sum of the parts. Needlessly obtuse and confusing.

I love non-linear storytelling (Memento, Pulp Fiction, etc.) I love bold new ideas. I can understand it if he's doing a creator owned book. Go wild. Throw in the kitchen sink. Blow our minds.

But when you're supposedly writing "the spine of the DC Universe", a mega-event crossover meant to appeal to as large a readership as possible, a book featuring iconic mainstream characters like Batman and Superman? Then I'd say only if you can execute it well. And in the case of FC, the execution is pathetic.

Final Crisis is an incomprehensible, disjointed, horrid excuse for a "story". And this coming from a DC fan who likes superhero stories. On top of all the problems people have already pointed out, I hate the fact that most of the story isn't even told in the damn series! You have to go buy the ancillary mini-series to figure out why all of a sudden Black Lightning shows up as a Justifier, or where the hell Superman's been all this time.

On my latter gripe, I place the blame entirely on the editorial side. Crossovers and "event" comics are designed to sell lots of books, and get you to go buy other titles. But in general, those other books just complement the main storyline. Not so here. Some of the salient plot points of Infinite Crisis are told in books outside of the series! Ridiculous.

So yeah, I blame myself for continuing to pick up the issues when after #3 it was pretty clear that this was a horrid mess and an epic fail. But there you have it.

I'm done with Morrison for good.

Lovecraft13
01-27-2009, 01:46 PM
I think in terms of ambition, Final Crisis is decent. In terms of simple storytelling, this run is and will be considered a failure. Issue 7 will most likely be a bottlenecked disaster.

Paul Sanderson
01-27-2009, 05:41 PM
I agree with you both.

Scribe
01-27-2009, 10:18 PM
Good to know I don't need to waste my time with this one

onizuka43
01-28-2009, 01:40 AM
Final Crisis seems to me more proof that Geoff Johns is one of the few people who actually understand the DC Universe right now. FC I get characters I don't give a damn about and a tacked on Batman death thing that didn't even seems that important. I hate being the bitchy fanboy but this is just boring.

PC812
01-28-2009, 07:18 AM
I'm loving this series. It's grandiose, it's epic, it's everything a massive company crossover SHOULD be. All Marvel has given us is absolute bullcrap and nothing but a lot of splash pages of heroes either fighting each other or fighting little green aliens.

That doesn't interest me. There's been no sense of awe or actual danger in Marvel's crossovers. I want something that will make me sit back and go, "...goddamn."

That's what Morrison has done. He has more original ideas in a single issue than most writers these days have in their entire careers.

And since when did things that were difficult to understand become bad? David Lynch makes some of the greatest movies and those require several viewings to figure out what's going on. Burroughs' was an incredible writer yet I still couldn't even begin to tell you what Naked Lunch is about.

I'd rather have something that will require a few readings to understand than another generic, cookie-cutter crossover that promises to wow me and change everything when it will fail miserably at both those things. If I'm going to invest in a massive company crossover, I want it to be worth my while, not something that reads like bad fanfic.

Eugene Selassie
01-28-2009, 10:46 AM
I'm loving this series. It's grandiose, it's epic, it's everything a massive company crossover SHOULD be. All Marvel has given us is absolute bullcrap and nothing but a lot of splash pages of heroes either fighting each other or fighting little green aliens.

That doesn't interest me. There's been no sense of awe or actual danger in Marvel's crossovers. I want something that will make me sit back and go, "...goddamn."

That's what Morrison has done. He has more original ideas in a single issue than most writers these days have in their entire careers.

And since when did things that were difficult to understand become bad? David Lynch makes some of the greatest movies and those require several viewings to figure out what's going on. Burroughs' was an incredible writer yet I still couldn't even begin to tell you what Naked Lunch is about.

I'd rather have something that will require a few readings to understand than another generic, cookie-cutter crossover that promises to wow me and change everything when it will fail miserably at both those things. If I'm going to invest in a massive company crossover, I want it to be worth my while, not something that reads like bad fanfic.


Completely in agreement.

Paul Sanderson
01-28-2009, 04:22 PM
This series is a mess fro woe to go. An unmitigated failure!

Mwynn
01-28-2009, 04:24 PM
The last few pages of FC7 are great. This series was just amazing.

robbdaman
01-28-2009, 08:37 PM
The last few pages of FC7 are great. This series was just amazing.

Amazing?! You are either on the same drugs Morrison is or completely out of your mind. Final Crisis was one of the worst written and read stories I've ever suffered through. It was pure crappola!

Paul Sanderson
01-28-2009, 09:06 PM
Amazing?! You are either on the same drugs Morrison is or completely out of your mind. Final Crisis was one of the worst written and read stories I've ever suffered through. It was pure crappola!

Quoted for truth :har:

Mike225
01-28-2009, 09:10 PM
Amazing?! You are either on the same drugs Morrison is or completely out of your mind. Final Crisis was one of the worst written and read stories I've ever suffered through. It was pure crappola!Fuck opinions!

Mwynn
01-28-2009, 10:09 PM
Amazing?! You are either on the same drugs Morrison is or completely out of your mind. Final Crisis was one of the worst written and read stories I've ever suffered through. It was pure crappola!
You read it right, I typed amazing.

Moonrider
01-29-2009, 12:12 AM
It seems that most people who dislike it think that other people who like it are either on crack or idiots, and needed to be told repeatedly of why they think it suck.

hellblazer72
01-29-2009, 12:35 AM
i liked it, i just wish mahnke was onboard for all 7 issues

Paul Sanderson
01-29-2009, 12:35 AM
Yep :laugh:

PC812
01-29-2009, 07:04 AM
Amazing?! You are either on the same drugs Morrison is or completely out of your mind. Final Crisis was one of the worst written and read stories I've ever suffered through. It was pure crappola!
With a close-minded response like this, I'd say you need to get yourself some drugs. And if it was the worst story you ever read, then why the hell did you continue to buy it after the first issue? You obviously liked it enough to buy the final issue on the day it came out.

So it seems like you have wasted $30 on something you absolutely despise, a fact you new after you spent the first $4. Yet that didn't stop you from continuing to flush your money away.

To me, that means you are the one who is out of his mind.

Ian Ascher
01-29-2009, 09:39 AM
Im not trying to force anyone to change their opinions on this book but I do want to add a personal observation.

People said Seven Soldiers was a confusing mess. Books came out late, switched artists, criss-crossed with each other, and so on. I didn't buy it or read it when it came out. I did however sit down w/ all four trades and read them in order within days of each other. I didn't see the mess people said the book-series-event was.

Now I have been reading Final Crisis as it came out. It's not what I expected at all, even knowing it was a Grant Morrison book. However, Once issue seven arrives I will be sitting down and reading them all together in one sitting if possible. My hope is there will be a little more insight in doing it that way than the scatter shot schedule we were given for the book.

Of course, it doesnt help that Grant has said that Seven Soldiers and Final Crisis are tied together in the sense that all those ideas occured at the same time and were part of a much larger story he called Hypercrisis that DC nixed because they wanted to push a lot more out (ie: Countdown and so on).

Makes me wonder what got lost in the mix and what else Grant has in store. Didio has gone on record saying the Multiverse is Grant's to play with and we wont be seeing much of it for a few years.

Lovecraft13
01-29-2009, 07:16 PM
The series would have been a lot better if it was annotated. Mandrake? I didn't know who the heck he was until I read the review elsewhere. What happened to the Flashes? Why even mention Aquaman if he didn't do anything in the story? Zombie Ultraman? Libra? What did the 50 Supermen actually do? And why did Lois Lane become the narrator?

Sloppy storytelling. Sorry, but I'm not investing more money into buying every single tie in to find those answers. Morrison should have constructed a linear plot.

robbdaman
01-29-2009, 07:41 PM
With a close-minded response like this, I'd say you need to get yourself some drugs. And if it was the worst story you ever read, then why the hell did you continue to buy it after the first issue? You obviously liked it enough to buy the final issue on the day it came out.

So it seems like you have wasted $30 on something you absolutely despise, a fact you new after you spent the first $4. Yet that didn't stop you from continuing to flush your money away.

To me, that means you are the one who is out of his mind.

I never said I bought it did I? Assume and you know what happens. :slap: Maybe I work part time at a comic shop, maybe I know people and read it before it came out or maybe I helped create the book even. You don't know and you certainly don't know anything about what makes book worth reading if you like this comic.

R~

Moonrider
01-29-2009, 08:36 PM
You don't know and you certainly don't know anything about what makes book worth reading if you like this comic.

R~

Correction: We don't know and we certainly don't know anything about what you think makes a book worth reading if we like this comic.

Don't be a stuck up jackass by telling people what to like.

Paul Sanderson
01-29-2009, 10:06 PM
The series would have been a lot better if it was annotated. Mandrake? I didn't know who the heck he was until I read the review elsewhere. What happened to the Flashes? Why even mention Aquaman if he didn't do anything in the story? Zombie Ultraman? Libra? What did the 50 Supermen actually do? And why did Lois Lane become the narrator?

Sloppy storytelling. Sorry, but I'm not investing more money into buying every single tie in to find those answers. Morrison should have constructed a linear plot.

A little more explanation and a little less 'Morrison-isms' wouldn't have gone astray.

Mike225
01-29-2009, 10:50 PM
I never said I bought it did I? Assume and you know what happens. :slap: Maybe I work part time at a comic shop, maybe I know people and read it before it came out or maybe I helped create the book even. You don't know and you certainly don't know anything about what makes book worth reading if you like this comic.

R~So, you downloaded it, right? Oh, and while I have your attention, I don't give a shit what your opinion is about a fucking thing. Just saying.

robbdaman
01-30-2009, 01:18 AM
Assumption. Ass out of u, not really me though, you're apparently an expert at being one that I don't need to be. You're far from alone in this thread by far. :rolleyes:

R~

Buckyrig
01-30-2009, 01:34 AM
Jagerbombs.

Mike225
01-30-2009, 03:57 AM
Assumption. Ass out of u, not really me though, you're apparently an expert at being one that I don't need to be. You're far from alone in this thread by far. :rolleyes:

R~Oh, I get it. You're retarded.

I'm sorry for picking on you.

dx
01-30-2009, 04:10 AM
There will be another....

within three years, there will be, The Next Crisis

then DC can go through, explain Final Crisis, bring back a dead character, kill another off, re-introduce some alternate universe character, chage Supergirl into something else, and kill off the rainbow of Lanterns.

:w00t:

Moonrider
01-30-2009, 05:06 AM
It won't be DC's last comic book event by far, but it makes sense if this will be the last time the Monitors are involved. DC should move on to things like shape shifting alien invasion, or fighting each other for some silly registration act...

Saul Haber
02-01-2009, 03:53 AM
Ok, I take back what I said in the first post. FC #7 was completely incomprehensible. There were too many "story"lines ("story" in quotes since I'm not sure you can call it a stiry since I don't really understand anything that happened) to wrap up and Morisson did a really poor job of tying it all together. All these little snippets of different undeveloped plot points and no clear narrative. Why was there a panel of Aquaman?? What was Checkmate's black gambit? What did Hawkman do? How did the multiverse get dragged into this? Are the New Gods back now just like they always were? Are the Monitors gone? Captain Carrot? What actually happened in this thing?
And- "No one fucks with the judge of all evil'?? You can't pull off a line like that when we hardly even know/understand anything about the chararcter or what he does.
And I won't even pretend to understand what's going on with Batman at the end.
Someone said in an earlier post how this is editorial's fault. Any writer can go a little haywire every once in a while, but the editor's got to say- "Hey, this doesn't make any sense, man. This isn't a story."
No?

Mwynn
02-01-2009, 09:34 AM
Ok, I take back what I said in the first post. FC #7 was completely incomprehensible. There were too many "story"lines ("story" in quotes since I'm not sure you can call it a stiry since I don't really understand anything that happened) to wrap up and Morisson did a really poor job of tying it all together. All these little snippets of different undeveloped plot points and no clear narrative. Why was there a panel of Aquaman?? What was Checkmate's black gambit? What did Hawkman do? How did the multiverse get dragged into this? Are the New Gods back now just like they always were? Are the Monitors gone? Captain Carrot? What actually happened in this thing?
And- "No one fucks with the judge of all evil'?? You can't pull off a line like that when we hardly even know/understand anything about the chararcter or what he does.
And I won't even pretend to understand what's going on with Batman at the end.
Someone said in an earlier post how this is editorial's fault. Any writer can go a little haywire every once in a while, but the editor's got to say- "Hey, this doesn't make any sense, man. This isn't a story."
No?

I'm gonna just answer two of the questions here. Then make a statement.

Aquaman was set to return when Atlantis needed him most.
The Omega Saction transports those they hit to the multiverse. Bruce could be in the past of Earth 0 or any of the other Earths.


I hope that helps somewhat. I actually think people are overthinking this stuff. It is like one of the hidden images, just relax your brain and stop putting so much thought into it.

HaphazardJoy
02-01-2009, 09:57 AM
It's all over now, and I was already a fan, but I'd say the winners of this event were Renee "The Question" Montoya, and The Spectre. The other story arcs were pretty awful. I'm not a Marvel Zombie, but an X-men fan first when it comes to continuity, and DC lured me away, offering great stories besides Batman for a short while, but this crap was just a mess.

Paul Sanderson
02-01-2009, 04:21 PM
Someone said in an earlier post how this is editorial's fault. Any writer can go a little haywire every once in a while, but the editor's got to say- "Hey, this doesn't make any sense, man. This isn't a story."
No?

Agreed. I've been saying it for years now. Editorial has severely slackened the last few years.

No-one is overthinking anything, Marv. Some of us just think this series was overblown and just plain crappy. That's just how it goes.

Eugene Selassie
02-01-2009, 05:00 PM
I don't know, I think many people are blowing it out of proportion.

It wasn't one of the greatest stories ever, but its DEFINITELY not as bad as many here are painting it as.

Mike225
02-01-2009, 05:25 PM
I don't know, I think many people are blowing it out of proportion.

It wasn't one of the greatest stories ever, but its DEFINITELY not as bad as many here are painting it as.I haven't read it yet, but weren't Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in it? :huh:

Eugene Selassie
02-01-2009, 05:56 PM
I haven't read it yet, but weren't Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in it? :huh:

Yes smart ass.

And I will say that I was disappointed in Wonder Woman's handling.

I've been hearing of this ongoing conspiracy that Morrison dislikes Wonder Woman and it can be seen in his work, even back during his tenure on JLA.

I need to go back and read that stuff again, because I don't remember that being the case.

kdmelrose
02-01-2009, 06:02 PM
"Ongoing conspiracy"?

:sure:

Buckyrig
02-01-2009, 06:08 PM
"Ongoing conspiracy"?

:sure:

I heard he's going to "assassinate" her.

kdmelrose
02-01-2009, 06:10 PM
What did he know and when did he know it?

PC812
02-02-2009, 10:55 PM
I never said I bought it did I? Maybe I work part time at a comic shop, maybe I know people and read it before it came out
Buying something you hate makes you an idiot who doesn't care about wasting money. This statement puts the money part into question, but it still makes you an idiot. Because either way, you are spending YOUR time reading something which YOU hate. That's the equivalent of someone intentionally hitting his hand with a hammer while saying, "wow, this really sucks."

or maybe I helped create the book even.
If that were true, it shows just how far standards have fallen.

Assume and you know what happens.
Kind of like what you've been doing by making assumptions about other people's tastes?

You don't know and you certainly don't know anything about what makes book worth reading if you like this comic.
You're making assumptions again. For all you know, I could be a college professor with a PhD in literature and film. And how could I not know what makes a book worth reading? That's entirely subjective. Therefore, if I enjoy something, it's worth reading. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Paul Sanderson
02-03-2009, 12:02 AM
"Ongoing conspiracy"?

:sure:

We're out to get him.

Ian Ascher
02-04-2009, 09:03 PM
Love it or hate it, check out Grant Morrison's discussion of Final Crisis events...

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/020904-Grant-FC2.html

Some interesting ideas and explinations.

Paul Sanderson
02-04-2009, 11:50 PM
At least he confirms Batman will be back. As if that was ever in doubt.