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trialsze
12-17-2008, 04:26 PM
Well I read this article over at Newsarama and I really do not understand this move on DCs part.

Here is the article:
Milstone at DC (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/120815-McDuffie-Milestone.html)

Ok I posted several thoughts on the subject on that thread. To the point where Dwight answered me himself but when I called him on not caring about what the fan boys like or do not like Newsarama freakin erased my comment and banned me from the thread. What is up with that crap? Is that a balanced fair media?

Personally I see no need to incorporate Milestone characters into the DC universe. The only difference between Icon and Superman is that Icon is black.

Now I would not mind seeing them as their own imprint but even then I just don't see them surviving in this industry. Am I wrong? Is Newsarama correct in taking down my comment? Has anyone else had this type of treatment from them?

Please do tell.

Mwynn
12-17-2008, 04:31 PM
What did you say that got your comments removed. As for the Milestone characters in DCU. I think it is a good idea it adds diversity. Static is a great character and deserves to be in Teen Titans. As for Icon being a Black Superman. Would that mean that Captain Marvel is Superman with magic?

Icon and Superman did not grow up the same way. That makes the character different and interesting.

trialsze
12-17-2008, 04:41 PM
Well what I said was, and this is not exactly the words because I did not save it, but basically I said that the attitude of not caring what the fan boy likes is what is wrong with this industry now. I am not sure when as creators we decided that we made comics for ourselves and not for the consumer we took a wrong turn.

I also said that batman and flash had established roles in the DC universe and that is why they were different then say Icon. Icon is a clone of Superman. DC universe already has a Superman. Ask Jim Lee how well Mr Majestic faired in the DC universe.

I also said that the books would not last over 12 issues.

That was it. I did not call Dwight any names or even get ugly to the guy. I just stated my opinion on the subject.

Mwynn
12-17-2008, 05:00 PM
Did anyone honestly care about Majestic when he was just in the Wildstorm Universe?

Rob Norton
12-17-2008, 05:09 PM
Well what I said was, and this is not exactly the words because I did not save it, but basically I said that the attitude of not caring what the fan boy likes is what is wrong with this industry now. I am not sure when as creators we decided that we made comics for ourselves and not for the consumer we took a wrong turn.
.


what? you are crazy. i would much rather read a book the writer wrote where it was something HE waned to read rather than writing something he THINKS the "fanboys" wanted. there is a much greater chance its better and has more heart if hes writing what he wants to and what interests him, rather than pandering (sp?) to the masses and thier ideas of what they think they want. you will get stale boring stupid crap and nothing will ever change.



rob

Mwynn
12-17-2008, 05:26 PM
I think that is the biggest problem with comic fans today, fear of change.

WSSmith
12-17-2008, 05:28 PM
what? you are crazy. i would much rather read a book the writer wrote where it was something HE waned to read rather than writing something he THINKS the "fanboys" wanted. there is a much greater chance its better and has more heart if hes writing what he wants to and what interests him, rather than pandering (sp?) to the masses and thier ideas of what they think they want. you will get stale boring stupid crap and nothing will ever change.



rob


Truly I think it is quite easy to do both!

John Rauch
12-17-2008, 05:46 PM
I concur. Your idea of what's "wrong" with the industry seems very far off. Also, it did come off as an insult. I can see why they removed it to keep things civil.

Paul Sanderson
12-17-2008, 05:53 PM
That's part of the problem with comics today. I'm sorry, but I agree with trialsze to a large extent. Comics need to start catering to their audience rather than to the creators themselves. The industry has shrunk so much for so long that we cannot afford to simply ignore the fanbase or indeed ignore those potential readers that aren't readers right now. Writers catering merely to their own wants simply doesn't cut it. What's wrong with writing for your audience? Surely you can do both, as WSSmith states. That's what the industry used to do, but has seriously lost its way in recent times.

Buckyrig
12-17-2008, 06:04 PM
Writers catering merely to their own wants simply doesn't cut it. What's wrong with writing for your audience? Surely you can do both, as WSSmith states. That's what the industry used to do, but has seriously lost its way in recent times.

Writers should always write what they feel is the best story. It's the publishers' job to service the market (cater) by selecting writers who will best help them sell their books.

Yeah, that's oversimplified, but you get the idea.

John Rauch
12-17-2008, 06:17 PM
I feel like the comic book industry HAS been catering to it's core fans and nothing but for the last 20 years or so and that is part of the reason the market has shrunk. Trying to bring in new fans is not "catering", it's broadening the scope of what they publish.

trialsze
12-17-2008, 09:41 PM
Really John? Marvel retconing Spidey was what the fans wanted? I don't agree with that and what exactly did I say that could be taken as an insult? I did not attack the books I stated my opinion. Which if you post up an article like that you are trying to get feedback on it.

I think them removing my statement was more political then anything else. Bottom line Milestone characters add nothing to the DC universe that isn't already there.

Paul Sanderson
12-18-2008, 12:25 AM
Nope, I don't agree, Bucky, which is why so much of the industry is going off the rails these days. Always write the best stories you can, but if you're not writing for your audience (or your potential audience), then you need to get out and find yourself another line of work.

trialsze
12-18-2008, 12:48 AM
I could not have said it better Paul.

John Rauch
12-18-2008, 05:07 AM
Really John? Marvel retconing Spidey was what the fans wanted? I don't agree with that and what exactly did I say that could be taken as an insult? I did not attack the books I stated my opinion. Which if you post up an article like that you are trying to get feedback on it.

I think them removing my statement was more political then anything else. Bottom line Milestone characters add nothing to the DC universe that isn't already there.

I think that whole Spidey arc was an excellent example of *trying* to cater to fans, at the very least. I think Joe was probably trying to connect with fans to get the numbers back up where they used to be. Whether it worked or not is up for debate, I suppose.

Although the Spiderman story was more obvious, it happens across the board with many, many characters. DC can't even kill Batman without bringing in a replacement. Nevermind Robin, Flash, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, and every other "mantle" character they have. Their goal is to keep the books from changing too far from the mold so that they don't alienate the core audience.

I think Joe Q. probably looked at Spiderman and wondered if that had already happened, so maybe this was his attempt to get back to the Spiderman he thought people enjoyed more. I'm not judging that decision one way or the other, because I understand the motives and the business reasons to make the call, but from my personal P.O.V., I like stories that go somewhere. Even if where they're going means the story has to end at some point. It's just what I like. Obviously, it's not what everyone likes since Spiderman, Superman, Batman, etc. are still among the best selling books.

That's what I think anyway and I'm sure there are plenty who know more about the subject than me. I just know that I like seeing stories that don't end how they started and that doesn't describe most of the better selling books, so the way I see it, fans are being catered to, to an extent.

Aidy
12-18-2008, 07:42 AM
[QUOTE=Mwynn]. Would that mean that Captain Marvel is Superman with magic? QUOTE]

i think thats why fawcett got sued back in the day....

Magestic rules...but he too is a superman rip off, as is the Sentry and possibly Thor...hell anyone with a cape, strength and the ability to fly is a Superman rip off.

battleeulogy
12-29-2008, 04:10 PM
First of all I would like to point out one very imporant thing ICON IS NOT BLACK! He's actually a BLUE ALIEN who took up the mantle of a black man when he came to earth hundreds of years ago..his whole origin and back story is nothing like the hundreds of superman clones and this comic ICON was more about his sidekick then him. He's more like Martian Manhunter then Superman in a greater sense.

Anyhow with the hundreds of Supermen running around the DCU aleady, having ICON around at least gives the hint of something different. Comics need diversity like it or not rather it's female, black,orange, red, yellow, or whatever!

Static's cartoon last four seasons and was optioned for a fifth and has won numerous awards and ratings were better then JLA and Teen Titans at times. So, there's a market for "ethnic" chrs and another example is Dora the Explorer which has made billions so the market is there, it just takes the right creators to expand upon it and the right company to market it!

Disney made billions off of the That's So Raven franchise which Raven S. took advantage of now she's 22 and worth $400 or more! Check Forbes if you don't believe me!

Tribe when it first came out sold over a million copies, Spawn which some people tend to forget is about a black man has sold millions and has had a movie, cartoon, toys,etc...so there's money to be made by having a diverse line up of books, chrs, and creations! Check the Bible if you doubt that...!

Biofungus
12-29-2008, 06:41 PM
Disney made billions off of the That's So Raven franchise which Raven S. took advantage of now she's 22 and worth $400 or more! Check Forbes if you don't believe me!

Sorry, this made me laugh :laugh:

Buckyrig
12-29-2008, 06:44 PM
Spawn which some people tend to forget is about a black man has sold millions and has had a movie, cartoon, toys,etc...so there's money to be made by having a diverse line up of books, chrs, and creations! Check the Bible if you doubt that...!

Yeah, but Spawn is tripe.

themightykwan
12-31-2008, 11:32 PM
Their are a lot more characters to the Milestone-verse than just Static and Icon. While it has yet to be seen what they may or may not bring to the DC Universe, I doubt they would take anything away.

I don't mind the changes, I don't mind new characters or even old characters being brought back. All I really want is great stories. If you can give that to me with Supes, great. If you can give that to me with Icon, also great! A wider array of characters or books in an already diluted market doesn't bother me. I think it makes the really great stuff stand out that much more! But I don't think any of us are gonna plunk down 3.95 a month for a book we don't enjoy reading.

So bring on new stuff, but make it GREAT STUFF!!! Don't just give me a lesbian, gay, latin, blind, asian or black character just for the sake of adding diversity and thinking that what I have in common with them will be enough reason for me to buy them. I might buy the first issue, but if the story is crap, I won't be buying the second no matter how much the character may look like me. It's just as insulting to have no characters of color or diversity as it is to have existing crappy ones. That doesn't help at all and it sure as heck won't sell any books!

Butch007
01-04-2009, 01:55 AM
Obviously this is a loaded opinion post that the poster used to draw attention to himself for some unknown reason. I don't think I've read one response that poses an opinion that mirrors the original poster's, so there are a lot of issues.

Since from the basic set of responses here indicates that the "Fanboys", as the poster labeled them, largely have a different opinion than his he should be willing to accept that the opinion, he posted, regarding Milestone characters is only his own and maybe some small minority group with in the "Fanboy" crowd he claims to represent and that that's drastically different the way he currently chooses to see the situation.

Couple of ways to see this:

1.) The guy has a problem with new characters being introduced into the DC Universe...which would make his "opinion" an absurd solution for a real world company and thus invalid.

2.) The guy has a problem with potentially pivotal characters that happen to be African-American being introduced into the DC Universe...which would make him a racist and thus his opinion would be invalid.

3.) The guy has a problem with established characters that could disrupt the "balance" of the DC Universe...see #1

4.) The guy has a problem with established, but foreign to DC "proper", African-American characters...see #1 and then see #2

Aside from the fact that the whole "Write for the fanboys" idea is a poor cover for alternate reasons since any writer worth his/her own weight in salt would sooner nail their eyelids to a window and then jump out than pivot their career around what they "believe" some one else or some group would like to read. Even if it weren't an absolutely absurd idea most of the "Fanboys" don't even agree with the assertion made here.

Even more importantly the idea of a White guy with flowing clothing and real or perceived super-human abilities wasn't original when Superman was created, so if Icon is ripped off of Superman and Superman is certainly ripped off a couple of ancient myths/fantasy stories and DC should stop publishing Superman immediately.

I'm not a fan of Milestone characters and won't be reading any of the books, but when a person goes out of the way to make himself look like an ass offend, belittle and assume far too much about people he doesn't know I have to call a spade a spade and actually label the guy an ass at the very least.