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VOGLER/ART
11-24-2008, 04:06 PM
http://www.kget.com/entertainment/story.aspx?content_id=793a188a-f5a9-4748-9699-67938e435820 I was surprised to see this. I might not read comics anymore, but I thought this was pretty lame. Breaking his back is one thing, but retiring the character...come on.

Moonrider
11-24-2008, 09:00 PM
The Bruce Wayne character is now expected to retire from his duties, perhaps leading to a new Batman or an entirely different superhero to take his place.

Yeah like that would sell. :rolleyes:

Paul Sanderson
11-25-2008, 08:49 PM
It's DC showing its rank stupidity again. To be fair, though, you know this is just a temporary thing.

galmando
11-25-2008, 09:24 PM
i'm not a fan of DC at all, i think it's to do with all the convoluted continuity, but i don't buy for one second that Batman will die and never return.

it's like captain america, he aint stayin dead forever.

i don't know why they bother (apart from sales i guess)

HaphazardJoy
11-25-2008, 10:43 PM
Since when are comics published on Thursday, much less when that Thursday is Thanksgiving?

Wayne Drake
11-26-2008, 01:03 AM
i think i was at that very same con that psycho street Batman was at. Also: that "article" didn't give anything away.....and comics come out Weds. :har:

JamieRoberts
11-26-2008, 03:42 AM
Since when are comics published on Thursday, much less when that Thursday is Thanksgiving?
They are over here in the UK. Maybe he's only gonna be killed off on our side of the pond.

Troy Wall
11-26-2008, 04:08 AM
Batman 681, the finale to RIP, comes out later today and has already been spoiled.

I lifted the following spoilers from CBR. They're legit:

SPOILERS

Bruce rigged the "bat radia" to transmit his location to the bat computer.

The COH [Club of Heroes] show up to save Robin from Lunaire Pierrot and Buckethead. The surviving members of the COV [Club of Villains] either escape or are apprehended. Very little is shown on-panel.

Damian crashes the batmobile into an ambulance the Joker is driving, sending him off a bridge.

The Black Glove is not revealed, apparently. Hurt claims to be Thomas Wayne to Bruce's face, while Bruce claims that Hurt is Pierce Mangrove. The story ends with Hurt's escape helicopter crashing, seemingly killing both him and Batman.

Talia has her ManBats kill Jezebel Jet in retaliation for what she did to Bruce.

The story concludes "6 months later" with Le Bossu torturing a cop for information on Batman and Robin. The cop claims they are considered dead. The copy smiles when the Bat Signal lights up in the sky behind them.

knockedoutpanzer
11-26-2008, 09:15 AM
Is Bruce Wayne the latest victim of the current financial crisis?

Ha!Ha ! Capitalist pig! :p :rolleyes:

Gav Heryng
11-26-2008, 11:43 AM
Is Bruce Wayne the latest victim of the current financial crisis?

Ha!Ha ! Capitalist pig! :p :rolleyes:

Maybe he faked his death for the insurance pay-out to a distant cousin living in Switzerland by the name of Wayne Bruce...

Dis

Aidy
11-26-2008, 11:55 AM
Maybe he faked his death for the insurance pay-out to a distant cousin living in Switzerland by the name of Wayne Bruce...

Dis



I dont think he could make the payments on the 6 mortgages he took out on Wayne Manor. Them bat mobiles dont buy themselves...and Bat-fuel is throught the roof.

Gav Heryng
11-26-2008, 12:04 PM
Can't he just fill up at Tesco? There's 5p off each litre if you spend 20 or more on shopping.

Dis

Aidy
11-26-2008, 12:24 PM
Can't he just fill up at Tesco? There's 5p off each litre if you spend 20 or more on shopping.

Dis

Ah if Alfred had told him that he could have saved a mint

Gav Heryng
11-26-2008, 02:03 PM
Alfred shops at Sainsbury's.

Dis

JamieRoberts
11-26-2008, 03:19 PM
Alfred shops at Sainsbury's.

Dis
More like Waitrose.

ronin7
11-26-2008, 04:05 PM
I hope whoever follows Grant Morrison actually does bring in the O'Neal/Adams elements into Batman like Morrison promised. Because it seems to me Morrison has no idea what the O'Neal/Adams run was about.

Mark Bertolini
11-26-2008, 05:31 PM
I dont think he could make the payments on the 6 mortgages he took out on Wayne Manor. Them bat mobiles dont buy themselves...and Bat-fuel is throught the roof.


He really needs to limit the number of batarangs he's been using. Maybe when he throws one at a guy, he could politely ask for it back.

"Um, sorry dirtbag, can you pull that out of your arm and just toss it back this way? I gotta throw it at one of your scumbag pals over there."

Biofungus
11-26-2008, 06:18 PM
He can drill a little hole in each one, and tie some fishing line to it. Sure it will limit his range a bit (maybe he can have 'different range' batarangs?), but at least he can just yank back the batarang...

HaphazardJoy
11-26-2008, 09:28 PM
A couple of other things to be gleaned from the issue:

Nightwing is seen clutching the Batman's cowl on a rooftop, and the cape flows behind him almost like he was wearing it.

The epilogue shows a flashback of the Wayne family exiting a theatre and Bruce asking why he couldn't be Zorro, Thomas Wayne says they'd probably put someone like that in Arkham. In the end we see someone watching the family from an alleyway. It's important to note that the scene is done in Black and Red.

It looks like RIP was just a lead in event in some ways. I wouldn't surprised if it turns into another big arc next year where Batman is locked in Arkham under Joker's control or something along those lines.

Paul Sanderson
11-26-2008, 09:44 PM
Bruce will be back as Batman, rest assured of that.

HaphazardJoy
11-26-2008, 09:46 PM
Oh, I don't doubt it, especially with such an unclear "death". I'm more wondering where Robin is. They already took that year together. Maybe they're living a regular life elsewhere as father and son.

Paul Sanderson
11-26-2008, 09:49 PM
Yeah. With Morrison, pretty much anything is possible.

Deadfish07
11-26-2008, 10:06 PM
It didn't really scream "Batman's Dead!". Joker has survived worse. And Batman is the kind that if he doesn't want to be found, he won't.

Troy Wall
11-27-2008, 02:40 AM
I've said this before, but sometimes Grant Morrison makes me feel like a retard. Why? Because a lot of times, after I read a book authored by Grant, I have to go read annotations related to said book made by Timothy Callahan, a man who has dedicated a lot of time studying, writing and philosophying Grant's work.

Take this tiny bit for example: I never picked up on just what in the blue fuck "Zur En Arrh" meant. But here's Timothy with the revelation:

Page 32: Joe Chill pops up on this final page, foreshadowing the death scene to come. I presume his presence is merely ominous, but I think we can also assume that the Black Glove organization and/or the Devil was involved in Batman's origin. Or if we can't assume it, then we can guess at it.] We all know what happens to momma and poppa Wayne after that night at the movies, and the red and the black coloring ties it all back to the Joker and the Devil once again, but the cool part about this final page is when Thomas Wayne says, "they'd probably throw someone like Zorro in Arkham." To which little Bruce says, "what?"

Then, in backwards lettering "Zur En Arrh." As in a slurring of "Zorro in Arkham." That's what this whole thing has been about -- the crazed Zorro, aka Batman, and his adventures into madness. I like how Morrison turns a 1950s nonsense phrase into something meaningful to the Batman character.

Holy fuck on a pogo stick! Zorro in Arkham...of course! :laugh: Seriously, I would have never caught that. And that aggravates the piss outta me.

And Timothy thinks that Dr. Hurt was the devil.

The fucking devil. That would explain the red and black themes that have been slapping our eye balls around for the past two years in this book.

For those interested, here's a link (http://geniusboyfiremelon.blogspot.com/) to Timothy's site. There are many, many more nuggets of painstakingly deciphered Morrisonian truth waiting there to explode your head.

pi0trov
11-27-2008, 03:19 AM
And Timothy thinks that Dr. Hurt was the devil.

The fucking devil. That would explain the red and black themes that have been slapping our eye balls around for the past two years in this book.
I read that theory over on CBR as well. I still don't buy it. Sure, Morrison's written a lot of crazy things over the years - but it still seems a-little-out-of-left-field for a Bat-book, even for him.

Guess we'll see what happens in Final Crisis. That's supposed to wrap all of this up, but I'll believe it when I see it.... :p

Aidy
11-27-2008, 11:15 AM
when's the trade out? any word on that yet?

HaphazardJoy
11-27-2008, 07:00 PM
I actually really like that interpretation.
I like the implication of Batman's origin having ties with the Black Hand. Then again, I also like Joker's implication that the Black and Red motif is his doing, hinting that he may be the Black Hand. Then again, if he's responsible for the origin of Batman, how can The Killing Joke version of the Joker origin be true when I so want it to be?

ArtisticBlasts
11-27-2008, 08:11 PM
Bruce will be back as Batman, rest assured of that.
First they did this to Hal Jordan. Next, Marvel did this to Captain America. And now they did this again to Batman. And I read that Action Comics' not going to be featuring Superman either. Sheeeesh .... I think I am going to stay out of the title for awhile. Maybe looking for more independent comics. Project SuperPowers seems more interesting to be catching on nowadays. Or perhaps I am going to do my own superhero comics that I can read by myself, at the very least.

HaphazardJoy
11-27-2008, 09:56 PM
Uhm, they didn't do it to Captain America, Steve Rogers is still very dead. Moreover, this doesn't come across as with Hal or Supes where they killed them off and brought em back later. This seems like a specific plan, like they know exactly where they want to go with the titles over the next 6 months.
I'll be interested to see where it goes, and I kinda want to start picking up Outsiders now.

ArtisticBlasts
11-27-2008, 11:08 PM
Uhm, they didn't do it to Captain America, Steve Rogers is still very dead. Moreover, this doesn't come across as with Hal or Supes where they killed them off and brought em back later. This seems like a specific plan, like they know exactly where they want to go with the titles over the next 6 months.
I'll be interested to see where it goes, and I kinda want to start picking up Outsiders now.
You mean turning off Bruce Wayne as Batman, and find someone else to fill his shoes like what Bucky did to Captain America's mantle? Pretty much the same to me like what they have done with Batman when they changed Bruce w/ Azrael. Except this time they make it look worse by making Bruce Wayne seemingly died, for whatever timeframe DC think they can make fortunes out of it .... I think I am going to read those Golden Age - Silver Age Batman books instead ..... :(

HaphazardJoy
11-27-2008, 11:19 PM
I thought you meant the inevitable return of Bruce as Batman. On the other hand, by your example, Hal Jordan is an awful analogy, it's inherent to the premise of the Green Lanterns that the ring passes on to a new person.

Moonrider
11-28-2008, 10:21 AM
Hah! I get it now! 'Zurr En Arrh'...it's what little Brucie heard when his dad said 'Zorro in Arkham'. It's like someone said "Personal Transport Protocol" and you go "What? Poison all trains, sport, porno call?" :laugh:

ArtisticBlasts
11-28-2008, 09:47 PM
I thought you meant the inevitable return of Bruce as Batman. On the other hand, by your example, Hal Jordan is an awful analogy, it's inherent to the premise of the Green Lanterns that the ring passes on to a new person.
I was talking about DC's lame excuses to turn off one of their main characters' alter ego, so that they can change it with someone else, and then when they think they have enough fortune the made out of the event, they returns the original alter ego back to the place, just to make another fortune. I understand that DC and MARVEL has been quite there in the market for quite a very long time. But doing this kind of experiments towards their readers is kind of harsh to me.

Paul Sanderson
11-28-2008, 10:00 PM
I had thought DC was over this lame-brained attempt at temporarilly replacing their characters with an inferior replacement. We've already been through this twice with Batman and multiple times with Superman (if you count the various imposters that claimed they were the real deal after the Man of Steel's "death").

ArtisticBlasts
11-28-2008, 10:27 PM
I had thought DC was over this lame-brained attempt at temporarilly replacing their characters with an inferior replacement. We've already been through this twice with Batman and multiple times with Superman (if you count the various imposters that claimed they were the real deal after the Man of Steel's "death").
Agree, Frank. That's what I was talking about. I understand comic book is an entertainment business, but this is not something that publishers can do pretty much things as they please, just to dig the money out of their readers :(

Moonrider
11-28-2008, 10:31 PM
I was talking about DC's lame excuses to turn off one of their main characters' alter ego, so that they can change it with someone else, and then when they think they have enough fortune the made out of the event, they returns the original alter ego back to the place, just to make another fortune. I understand that DC and MARVEL has been quite there in the market for quite a very long time. But doing this kind of experiments towards their readers is kind of harsh to me.

Although I agree about the gimmicky aspect of Batman RIP (or any superhero deaths for that matter), this is hardly an 'experiment' as it is a tried and tested comic book trend. And since most readers know he'll be back anyway, what matters now is just how it will get there. What would have been harsh is if they cancel the title altogether or replace Bruce Wayne with Irwin Schwab. And if ya don't like how they milk money out of you from these kinds of events, then for crap sake don't buy it!

ArtisticBlasts
11-28-2008, 10:45 PM
Although I agree about the gimmicky aspect of Batman RIP (or any superhero deaths for that matter), this is hardly an 'experiment' as it is a tried and tested comic book trend. And since most readers know he'll be back anyway, what matters now is just how it will get there. What would have been harsh is if they cancel the title altogether or replace Bruce Wayne with Irwin Schwab. And if ya don't like how they milk money out of you from these kinds of events, then for crap sake don't buy it!
I am not buying any Batman book starting on the very first issue of Batman R.I.P.. But following lotsa threads here and there, plus some reviews and preview pages, making me not even wanting to follow the whole storyline. As a big fan, this is indeed pretty much disappointing, ya know ...

Looking back on those Knightfall - quest - ends saga, this pretty much going to be that way, with different twists I am sure. And with Superman left Action Comics heading to a new book called "Adventure Comics" or so, sheeeesh .... Who know the next time we know they're already changing Clark Kent for someone else?

Rather getting those independent books in the market. Like, Project Super Powers shows promise lies ahead of Dynamite Entertainment.

Paul Sanderson
11-29-2008, 12:06 AM
I'm frustrated that DC is doing the same old gimmick again. If you're gonna do a gimmick like this, and at least try and make it something different, something unique (as much as possible). What they're doing now has been done already. It's boring as all sh!t! Just give me quality storytelling without the damn silly gimmicks!!

Moonrider
11-29-2008, 12:17 AM
Frank, you know as well as I do that even if they do 'something different, something unique (as much as possible)' you'll still rant about it here. ;)

Paul Sanderson
11-29-2008, 12:18 AM
Maybe, maybe not, it would depend on the story. Personally, I could do without the near-constant gimmicks. I'd rather they just focus on strong storytelling and good art.

Moonrider
11-29-2008, 12:27 AM
Isn't 'different' a big no-no for fanboys, anyways? :) Well, for all it's worth I think Batman RIP has strong storytelling and good enough art (never a big fan of Tony Daniels' art but it kinda worked at some levels, he's some sort of a poor man's Jim Lee in here). It's mind boggling yet it kept you mind guessing and still leave some things for the imagination. If we get past that gimmicky flavor that you are oh-so-tired with, it's really a good Batman story. And that's really all that matters.

Paul Sanderson
11-29-2008, 12:31 AM
I'd rather the strong storytelling without the gimmicks. The gimmick here has tainted the whole storyline. And there's no excuse for such stupidity!

ArtisticBlasts
11-29-2008, 01:15 AM
I'd rather the strong storytelling without the gimmicks. The gimmick here has tainted the whole storyline. And there's no excuse for such stupidity!
Completely agree with you, Frank :D

Aidy
12-02-2008, 12:00 PM
I had thought DC was over this lame-brained attempt at temporarilly replacing their characters with an inferior replacement. We've already been through this twice with Batman and multiple times with Superman (if you count the various imposters that claimed they were the real deal after the Man of Steel's "death").

DC where never seriously attempting to replace Superman with Cyborg, Vindicator, Superboy or John Irons.
Alan Scott was replaced, Barry Allen was replaced, Hal Jordan was replaced, Green Arrow was replaced, Mr Terrific was replaced, Ted Kord was replaced, Rocket Red was repalced, Robin has been replaced twice, Hawk and Dove have been replaced, hell the Daily Star was replaced...in a radio show. Replacement is part of "the charm" of the DCU.

Paul Sanderson
12-02-2008, 10:40 PM
Many of those replacements were lame-o and many were overturned later because of that. That ain't "charm."

Moonrider
12-03-2008, 04:08 AM
Ted Kord was lame-o???? Even Hal Jordan and Barry Allen are replacements of older characters, you call them lame too?

DC's real charm is in creating younger heroes that can co-exist with older heroes and many times even surpassing them.

ArtisticBlasts
12-03-2008, 05:23 AM
Ted Kord was lame-o???? Even Hal Jordan and Barry Allen are replacements of older characters, you call them lame too?

DC's real charm is in creating younger heroes that can co-exist with older heroes and many times even surpassing them.
DC treats Hal Jordan and Barry Allen differently compared to Ted Kord. They were not doing anything serious at all with Ted Kord, and therefore he's an expendable character to them. Check it out on all of those 70's - 90's issues where Ted Kord being featured at.

Moonrider
12-03-2008, 07:14 AM
Ted Kord may not be a top tier character, but calling him lame is a disservice to his fans. And to be fair, he's the character who held on to the name longer than anyone else. His powers and traits may be considered lame compared to Batman or Superman, but his character is hardly lame considering his popularity.

Aidy
12-03-2008, 07:49 AM
Ted Kord is not nor was he ever lame. Steve Ditko couldnt make a lame character if he tried.