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PIMPZILLA
11-02-2008, 01:27 AM
Just read the Azzarello/Bermejo OGN and it was brilliant. It was one of the best interpretations of The Joker I've seen in many a year. It was excellent and I highly recommend.

It's amazingly written, stunningly drawn, it's 100+ pages, it's hardcover, and it's only $20.00 which I think is a bargain. Plus, I'm getting it signed by Azzarello and Bermejo next weekend :D

Nick Kerklaan
11-02-2008, 01:47 AM
I really, really didn't like it. Wanted to, didn't. Art was great, thought the story dumped everything that makes the Joker interesting, and Azzarello seemed to be grasping clumsily for pathos in a bunch of places, particularly at the end (the last few pages are some of the worst attempts at "deep" I've seen just about anywhere). Just.. yeah.

The basic idea of a story based around the Joker, seemingly set in the universe of the films (it seemed more or less like a sequel to The Dark Knight) is a good one, but I thought the execution was pretty much botched. It seemed to latch onto the films' dark and gritty "realism" to the exclusion of all else. For all the liberties it took with the character, I thought the movie captured the essential nature of the Joker as the eternally amused psycopath very well, which was why I liked it. Here, he's reduced to a disfigured thug with mood swings.

I think a lot of people are going to like this one, and more power to them, but it's not for me.

PIMPZILLA
11-02-2008, 01:57 AM
The basic idea of a story based around the Joker, seemingly set in the universe of the films (it seemed more or less like a sequel to The Dark Knight)

actually it's not. Bermejo said it definetely was not. Plus, we haven't seen Croc, Harley, or the Penguin in the movies.


It would be better defined as being in it's own continuity. Although, I'd better anything that Bermejo's joker was based on Heath Ledgers.

Wayne Drake
11-02-2008, 02:09 AM
It's sold out at both the shops i visit. So frustrating for me!

Everyone is going to compare it to Heath's Joker, but this GN was planned out way ahead and CAN be considered a "spiritual companion" to TDK if ya want. There is a strip bar seen that is pretty damn vicious. I WANT IT!!!

Eugene Selassie
11-02-2008, 11:43 AM
It was an ok read...but I had the same problem with this one as I had with Azzarello's Lex Luthor story. He tries to humanize these characters to the point that there's nothing special about them and by the time you get to the end of the story, these characters feel like empty shells of their true greatness.

PIMPZILLA
11-02-2008, 12:02 PM
It was an ok read...but I had the same problem with this one as I had with Azzarello's Lex Luthor story. He tries to humanize these characters to the point that there's nothing special about them and by the time you get to the end of the story, these characters feel like empty shells of their true greatness.

Really? At the end I though The Joker was crazier than I had thought, and alot angrier.

PIMPZILLA
11-02-2008, 12:03 PM
It's sold out at both the shops i visit. So frustrating for me!

Everyone is going to compare it to Heath's Joker, but this GN was planned out way ahead and CAN be considered a "spiritual companion" to TDK if ya want. There is a strip bar seen that is pretty damn vicious. I WANT IT!!!

The only connections to TDK I see are the fact that The Joker looks like Heath's.


Oh, and the strip club scene. is reeeeeally vicious.

Moonrider
11-02-2008, 12:42 PM
The Riddler looks way too much like Johnny Depp.

Nick Kerklaan
11-02-2008, 01:05 PM
The only connections to TDK I see are the fact that The Joker looks like Heath's.


Oh, and the strip club scene. is reeeeeally vicious.

Are you serious? It's clearly, if not the same universe, a comparable one. All the characters have the same sort of "realist", "stripped-down-from-their-comic-origins" feel. The fact that we haven't seen Croc, The Riddler, etc. in the movies doesn't matter; they're all clearly portrayed in a way that we can imagine them being portrayed in a future film. Visually, it is Heath Ledger's Joker, there's absolutely no denying it, and Two-face is pretty spot-on too. The whole thing has a realistic, cinematic look, all of which ties it in pretty heavily to the movies if you ask me. Again, maybe it's not a direct sequel, but it's a spiritual one, like Wayne said.

And the strip club scene... okay... Just because he skins a dude doesn't make it "vicious". It's pretty standard evil villain stuff if you ask me - pretend everything's cool, lead him to a back room and HAHA IT WASN'T COOL OH MY GOD HOW VICIOUS. Frankly, the "pencil scene" in TDK, while completely bloodless, was far more surprising, disturbing, and vicious than anything in The Joker.

Eugene Selassie
11-02-2008, 01:11 PM
Are you serious? It's clearly, if not the same universe, a comparable one. All the characters have the same sort of "realist", "stripped-down-from-their-comic-origins" feel. The fact that we haven't seen Croc, The Riddler, etc. in the movies doesn't matter; they're all clearly portrayed in a way that we can imagine them being portrayed in a future film. Visually, it is Heath Ledger's Joker, there's absolutely no denying it, and Two-face is pretty spot-on too. The whole thing has a realistic, cinematic look, all of which ties it in pretty heavily to the movies if you ask me. Again, maybe it's not a direct sequel, but it's a spiritual one, like Wayne said.

And the strip club scene... okay... Just because he skins a dude doesn't make it "vicious". It's pretty bland evil villain stuff if you ask me - pretend everything's cool, lead him to a back room and HAHA IT WASN'T COOL OH MY GOD HOW VICIOUS. Frankly, the "pencil scene" in TDK, while completely bloodless, was far more surpising, disturbing, and vicious than anything in The Joker.

Agreed to the tenth power.

NickGuy
11-02-2008, 01:22 PM
actually it's not. Bermejo said it definetely was not. Plus, we haven't seen Croc, Harley, or the Penguin in the movies.


It would be better defined as being in it's own continuity. Although, I'd better anything that Bermejo's joker was based on Heath Ledgers.


uh actually, croc was in Gotham Knights, which is official canon between begins and dark knight

PIMPZILLA
11-02-2008, 05:05 PM
Are you serious? It's clearly, if not the same universe, a comparable one. All the characters have the same sort of "realist", "stripped-down-from-their-comic-origins" feel. The fact that we haven't seen Croc, The Riddler, etc. in the movies doesn't matter; they're all clearly portrayed in a way that we can imagine them being portrayed in a future film. Visually, it is Heath Ledger's Joker, there's absolutely no denying it, and Two-face is pretty spot-on too. The whole thing has a realistic, cinematic look, all of which ties it in pretty heavily to the movies if you ask me. Again, maybe it's not a direct sequel, but it's a spiritual one, like Wayne said.

And the strip club scene... okay... Just because he skins a dude doesn't make it "vicious". It's pretty standard evil villain stuff if you ask me - pretend everything's cool, lead him to a back room and HAHA IT WASN'T COOL OH MY GOD HOW VICIOUS. Frankly, the "pencil scene" in TDK, while completely bloodless, was far more surprising, disturbing, and vicious than anything in The Joker.



I'll give you the fact that you can consider it a "spiritual sequel" but it's not set in the same continuity, because it has absolutely no ties to the movie.

just cause the characters look they same doesn't make it set in the same continuity. You're right. It is set in a "comparable" universe, but you were complaining that I said the only connections it had were that Heath Ledger looks like Bermejo's Joker. You're contradicting yourself, because you basically agreed with me just now.

PIMPZILLA
11-02-2008, 05:08 PM
Are you serious? It's clearly, if not the same universe, a comparable one. All the characters have the same sort of "realist", "stripped-down-from-their-comic-origins" feel. The fact that we haven't seen Croc, The Riddler, etc. in the movies doesn't matter; they're all clearly portrayed in a way that we can imagine them being portrayed in a future film.
.


http://www.newsarama.com/comics/100829-Bermejo-Joker.html

2nd paragraph. Proof that's it not tied to TDK.

Moonrider
11-02-2008, 08:08 PM
They can say whatever but it's still a suspicious coincidence that The Riddler look like Johnny Depp just like the rumors that surfaced after TDK.

PIMPZILLA
11-02-2008, 10:29 PM
I'm just saying. This is what the artist is saying, so it holds some clout.

captainarian
11-03-2008, 09:56 AM
lee bermejo had this joker waaaaaaay before batman begins... so it wasn't his fault, u ask me i say the movie guys went after the art, not lee inspired by ledger.
there is no suspicion in that.
what kind of comic book people are you guys? u should know better.

i had ordered this comic back from the day CBR had put the cover in the soliticications. i thought it would be out soon. 6 months passed and now i know the book has just hit the stores... i hope the place i ordered joker has ordered the right one...
crap,, another 5 months in the waiting.

Mr.Musgrave
11-03-2008, 10:24 AM
They can say whatever but it's still a suspicious coincidence that The Riddler look like Johnny Depp just like the rumors that surfaced after TDK.


Or the artist just could have liked the idea of Depp as the Riddler and used him as a basis for the art.... :blink:

Nick Kerklaan
11-03-2008, 02:18 PM
Okay, I guess I'm wrong. But whoever was making the Joker look like whatever first, and regardless of the creators' intent, there's no denying that even if it's by sheer coincidence, this book and the movies are now inextricably linked. The average person seeing this will go, "Oh hey, it's about that movie I liked!" Whether or not it was intended as a companion to the movie is irrelevant, because it is now.

All that said, I still didn't like it, and I didn't like how the Joker was portrayed, and I didn't like the writing in general. If comparisons to the movie are innapropriate, let me instead compare it to The Killing Joke (a comparison that seems pretty much inevitable) which trumps it in every respect.

Eugene Selassie
11-03-2008, 03:32 PM
Okay, I guess I'm wrong. But whoever was making the Joker look like whatever first, and regardless of the creators' intent, there's no denying that even if it's by sheer coincidence, this book and the movies are now inextricably linked. The average person seeing this will go, "Oh hey, it's about that movie I liked!" Whether or not it was intended as a companion to the movie is irrelevant, because it is now.

All that said, I still didn't like it, and I didn't like how the Joker was portrayed, and I didn't like the writing in general. If comparisons to the movie are innapropriate, let me instead compare it to The Killing Joke (a comparison that seems pretty much inevitable) which trumps it in every respect.

Shit, Kerklaan is firing on all cylinders this week.

And I'm agreeing with him on almost everything.

:blink:

Moonrider
11-03-2008, 08:34 PM
Or the artist just could have liked the idea of Depp as the Riddler and used him as a basis for the art.... :blink:

Hmm...well in our point of view it's a basic question of chickens and eggs. Which comes first? We don't really know. Maybe they thought of drawing him like that at the last minute after hearing the rumors, or perhaps the rumors are actually started by them. But as I said, it's much too coincidental to be unrelated events.

Mr.Musgrave
11-04-2008, 09:49 AM
Hmm...well in our point of view it's a basic question of chickens and eggs. Which comes first? We don't really know. Maybe they thought of drawing him like that at the last minute after hearing the rumors, or perhaps the rumors are actually started by them. But as I said, it's much too coincidental to be unrelated events.


Yeah but they've been talking about Depp as the Riddler for as long as they've been talking about Phyllip Hoffman as the Penguin. It's been well over a year by now, I'd bet.

Eugene Selassie
11-04-2008, 11:27 AM
Yeah but they've been talking about Depp as the Riddler for as long as they've been talking about Phyllip Hoffman as the Penguin. It's been well over a year by now, I'd bet.

Correct as well.

Hell, we've pretty much been agreeing with eachother lately...


BORING.

:har:

Aidy
11-04-2008, 12:33 PM
Correct as well.

Hell, we've pretty much been agreeing with eachother lately...


BORING.

:har:

I could help you guys with that problem :)

Moonrider
11-04-2008, 12:51 PM
Yeah but they've been talking about Depp as the Riddler for as long as they've been talking about Phyllip Hoffman as the Penguin. It's been well over a year by now, I'd bet.

The Hoffman rumor I've heard, and it was well before TDK. The Johnny Depp rumor however, I've only heard recently after TDK.

Mr.Musgrave
11-04-2008, 08:10 PM
The Hoffman rumor I've heard, and it was well before TDK. The Johnny Depp rumor however, I've only heard recently after TDK.


I'm 99% sure it's an old one, but having read the book (and enjoyed it, probably more than Killing Joke) I really don't see Depp referenced as the Riddler.

Nick Kerklaan
11-05-2008, 01:51 AM
I'm 99% sure it's an old one, but having read the book (and enjoyed it, probably more than Killing Joke) I really don't see Depp referenced as the Riddler.

I'm with Musgrave on this one.

The Depp thing, I mean.

I really think this is going to be one of those things that me and five other people don't like, just like 100 Bullets.

PIMPZILLA
11-05-2008, 02:00 AM
I'm 99% sure it's an old one, but having read the book (and enjoyed it, probably more than Killing Joke) I really don't see Depp referenced as the Riddler.


I don't know if it's better than The Killing Joke. Once a much more complex story, being 128 pages, while the other, while being complex, isn't as much because of it's length.

I do enjoy them both, maybe equally, but in different ways.

Bottom line. One of my favorite Joker stories, and one of my favorite GN's of all time.



Btw, what's with that scene where he just got done having sex with Jonny's ex-wife? That's the only page that I couldn't really understand. Can someone explain that to me?

Nick Kerklaan
11-05-2008, 02:05 AM
Btw, what's with that scene where he just got done having sex with Jonny's ex-wife? That's the only page that I couldn't really understand. Can someone explain that to me?

He had just gone done having sex with Jonny's ex-wife.

It's, uh, pretty self-explanatory.