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View Full Version : ASBAR....just read this now....


Mark Bertolini
10-13-2008, 09:10 PM
I just picked up, and read, the first tpb of All Star Batman and Robin.





What an utter piece of shit. This is, possibly, worse storytelling than in Ultimates 3. Not one part of this "story" made any sense. The only good bit was the 3-4 page scne with the Joker. The rest was garbage.

It's clear the only reason this comic was published was because it was Frank Miller and Jim Lee. If Joe Nobody and Dick Whatsisname had pitched this to DC, they would have been laughed out to the sidewalk.

Every other word was godamn. The sequences took waaaay too many pages. The first 6 issues could have (and should have) been 2 issues.

Ridiculous. Two excellent creators teaming up, and this is the result?

Rob Norton
10-13-2008, 10:14 PM
im actually enjoying it. hes a hardcore strange version of batman, sure. but im enjoying reading a different version of the character. i like it.

rob

Eugene Selassie
10-14-2008, 11:21 AM
To be honest, it seems BIG DUMB FUN books are the "in" thing right now. Although I can't understand why.

Aidy
10-14-2008, 12:28 PM
ha, ha, ha, I told you...I fucking told you Miller sucks.

PIMPZILLA
10-14-2008, 07:51 PM
To be honest, it seems BIG DUMB FUN books are the "in" thing right now. Although I can't understand why.

I love the "BIG DUMB FUN" books but I also enjoy good, well told, stories. I enjoy both and I buy both.


This is actually in Miller's Year One continuity. So it's a sequel to Year Two, but a prequel to The Dark Knight Returns.

Paul Sanderson
10-14-2008, 09:30 PM
I just picked up, and read, the first tpb of All Star Batman and Robin.





What an utter piece of shit. This is, possibly, worse storytelling than in Ultimates 3. Not one part of this "story" made any sense. The only good bit was the 3-4 page scne with the Joker. The rest was garbage.

It's clear the only reason this comic was published was because it was Frank Miller and Jim Lee. If Joe Nobody and Dick Whatsisname had pitched this to DC, they would have been laughed out to the sidewalk.

Every other word was godamn. The sequences took waaaay too many pages. The first 6 issues could have (and should have) been 2 issues.

Ridiculous. Two excellent creators teaming up, and this is the result?

Totally agree with you. This sells because it's by Miller and Lee, not because it's actually any good (though Lee's art is fine). Miller is simply coasting on the success he had 20 years ago, and the industry is still kow-towing to him because of that long-past success.

Moonrider
10-14-2008, 10:35 PM
I love the "BIG DUMB FUN" books but I also enjoy good, well told, stories. I enjoy both and I buy both.


This is actually in Miller's Year One continuity. So it's a sequel to Year Two, but a prequel to The Dark Knight Returns.

Really? Because Batman Year One doesn't portray him as an asshole.

chris stevens
10-14-2008, 10:47 PM
i couldn't see it more differently, guys. this is an all-time batbook and rest assured ten years from now it sits on the same shelf as dark knight's 1 and 2(yes, dk2 motherfuckers!), year one, killing joke, long halloween, year 100, death in the family, hush, prey etc all...

let's look at what's obvious...

the best work of jim lee's career. in each issue he's drawn something fallen to us from the hands of a comic book god. cherish his x-men, adore his star-filled past, say 'hush' was better...all that aside this series proves to me, every time i see an issue(forget the months in-between)just how special and good jim lee is. with sincere thanks to neal adams and jim aparo and norm breyfogle, hell, to miller himself, i think this all star jim lee batman will become the iconic look of the next 20 years.

poor pacing exacerbated by scheduling: no doubt. but it's jim lee and frank miller...in real terms multi-millionaires with yin-yang...to be dead honest, given all the great and thrilling creator matches that have never materialized i feel blessed to read this bat book.

tit-for-tat, i've got more...not a perfect book, folks, but a very fine, fun batbook!!!

Paul Sanderson
10-14-2008, 11:30 PM
I agree, Jim Lee's artwork is fine, more than fine. It's very good. Sad to say, the writing is not up to the same standard, nor is it up to Miller's standards of 20 years ago. He's a pale imitation of his former self, coasting along on past reputation alone.

Aidy
10-15-2008, 06:54 AM
i couldn't see it more differently, guys. this is an all-time batbook and rest assured ten years from now it sits on the same shelf as dark knight's 1 and 2(yes, dk2 motherfuckers!), year one, killing joke, long halloween, year 100, death in the family, hush, prey etc all...


So what you're saying is: in 20 years time there will be a big shelf with all the batman books on it, and on that shelf ASBAR will be on it? Well yeah if their all on it. Good point.

P.S. Lee's X-men is soooo much better.

NickGuy
11-12-2008, 01:25 PM
i couldn't see it more differently, guys. this is an all-time batbook and rest assured ten years from now it sits on the same shelf as dark knight's 1 and 2(yes, dk2 motherfuckers!), year one, killing joke, long halloween, year 100, death in the family, hush, prey etc all...

let's look at what's obvious...

the best work of jim lee's career. in each issue he's drawn something fallen to us from the hands of a comic book god. cherish his x-men, adore his star-filled past, say 'hush' was better...all that aside this series proves to me, every time i see an issue(forget the months in-between)just how special and good jim lee is. with sincere thanks to neal adams and jim aparo and norm breyfogle, hell, to miller himself, i think this all star jim lee batman will become the iconic look of the next 20 years.

poor pacing exacerbated by scheduling: no doubt. but it's jim lee and frank miller...in real terms multi-millionaires with yin-yang...to be dead honest, given all the great and thrilling creator matches that have never materialized i feel blessed to read this bat book.

tit-for-tat, i've got more...not a perfect book, folks, but a very fine, fun batbook!!!


i agree and disagree with you.

first off, dk2 fucking rocked.

secondly, I agree that this is a great book and jim lee's art is awesome. i bought the volume 1 hardcover of this....collecting issues 1 thru 9...and i read year one first, then this all the way though including 10...


when this series is done, people are going to smack themselves in the face for ever hating on it or making fun of it. There is so much going on in this series that its amazing. the ramifications of gordons infidelity in year one have led to barbara being a drunk...events that happened in year one are referenced, and things to happen in DKR are hinted at...this is my favorite comic of all time.

Jim Lee still seems to be a bit awkward at drawing batman with a smile, but hes trying and it shows, especially in issue 9.

looking forward to 11!

however, i dont think anyone is going to be imitating this batman in the years to come, because so many people have gotten pissed off by this. people like grim and gritty batman which is fine, i do too, but its always fun to see a new take.

Scott Story
11-12-2008, 01:57 PM
I rarely join in on this type of thread, but this one compelled me to.

For, Dark Knight Returns is the greatest comic of all time. In my world, at least, it beats Watchmen. (Don't hate me, Church of Watchmen members; it's just that Dark Knight moved me in a more fundamental way.)

I've enjoyed much of Sin City. I enjoyed Batman: Year One.

But, DKSA was a major disappointment for me. I had sky-high expectations, because DKR was so important to me. It was a let down for me at every level.

ASBAR has been a monumental failure in my opinion. The GD Batman is so sadistic, psychotically angry, and sociopathically despicable that I couldn't go on after issue 8. Miller had ceased writing a Sam Spade pastiche and had moved into the realm of glorifying a monster.

Batman is different for every generation--I get that. But, just what generation represents the child-abusing, sadistic, hateful headcase depicted here?

NickGuy
11-12-2008, 02:54 PM
Batman is different for every generation--I get that. But, just what generation represents the child-abusing, sadistic, hateful headcase depicted here?

the generation that takes pictures of dead people and tries to make it into funny motivational posters, maybe? just a guess.

WSSmith
11-12-2008, 03:38 PM
I actually find this Batman to be more realistic, finally a book that is not bat-pussy and robyn! Its a hell of a lot cooler than most incarnations. I think to put on a mask and fight crime, this is the personality Batman would have evolved. This Gotham feels like it would need a super hero, its a rough place.

Personally it reads like a childrens book more than anything sadistic, psychotic, or angry. I mean a few Goddamn's and cursewords is how real people talk, well at least where i live. The action is well paced, if there is any fault it is paced 100% different than what most comic readers are used to or expect. But expectations are the fuel of failure, i think this is the problem with comics. Someone can't try something new or different without people misinterpreting their course and story long before the run is anywhere near complete!

Wayne Drake
11-12-2008, 04:29 PM
it was pretty bi-polar for the first 9 issues, but then it took a whole new turn at the end of #9 and Batman finally warmed up to Robin. not in a gay way, more like a fatherly way.

Paul Sanderson
11-12-2008, 06:57 PM
I rarely join in on this type of thread, but this one compelled me to.

For, Dark Knight Returns is the greatest comic of all time. In my world, at least, it beats Watchmen. (Don't hate me, Church of Watchmen members; it's just that Dark Knight moved me in a more fundamental way.)

I've enjoyed much of Sin City. I enjoyed Batman: Year One.

But, DKSA was a major disappointment for me. I had sky-high expectations, because DKR was so important to me. It was a let down for me at every level.

ASBAR has been a monumental failure in my opinion. The GD Batman is so sadistic, psychotically angry, and sociopathically despicable that I couldn't go on after issue 8. Miller had ceased writing a Sam Spade pastiche and had moved into the realm of glorifying a monster.

Batman is different for every generation--I get that. But, just what generation represents the child-abusing, sadistic, hateful headcase depicted here?

I agree with you totally, Scott. This is a dreadful book, extremely poorly written and handled (apart from the fine art) by Miller, who is someone that has definitely passed his prime in every sense.

ronin7
11-12-2008, 07:40 PM
Um, Frank Miller is polemicist Paul and the other guys who are shitting on him. He's purposely making this book the way it is to piss you off. Why do you think only the people who got the joke are fucking loving every minute of it? It's supposed to bi-polar and batshit nuts.

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11-12-2008, 08:40 PM
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yellowphantom
11-12-2008, 09:18 PM
while we're on the subject of the All Star books...does anybody know or has it already been posted somewhere about whether or not DC will be releasing any other All Star books anytime soon...?

maybe...?

All Star Flash
All Star Green Lantern
All Star Wonder Woman
All Star Justice League


????

Scott Story
11-12-2008, 11:53 PM
I respect that many of you like it. Clearly, I'm not the target audience.

A lot of it is determined by when you grew up, and what you read when you were forming your tastes. I first encountered Batman as a tv show; in print, I encountered Batman in the 70's as drawn by guys like Adams and Aparo, and written by guys like O'Neil.

Consequently, the Batman in the animated series has always seemed like a more true representation to me. I also very much like the Batman of the two Chris Nolan films.

Grant Morrison seems to write a pretty good Bruce Wayne and Batman. It's no real surprise that I think that, really, because Morrison's Batman is sort of a meta-Batman, drawing traits from all across his seventy year history.

So, if you guys like ASBAR, no worries.

Wayne Drake
11-13-2008, 12:02 AM
it was pretty weird/heartfelt at the same time to see this moment, after 8 straight issues of pure abuse

captions: "We mourn lives lost. Including our own."
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/2296998343_28603dfd0e.jpg

Aidy
11-13-2008, 08:32 AM
it was pretty weird/heartfelt at the same time to see this moment, after 8 straight issues of pure abuse

captions: "We mourn lives lost. Including our own."
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/2296998343_28603dfd0e.jpg


Where's Dick's other hand?

Mark Bertolini
11-13-2008, 03:16 PM
Where's Dick's other hand?


Searching for the "Bat Anti-Molestation Spray"

NickGuy
11-13-2008, 03:22 PM
hugging batman, obviously.

The Spirit
11-13-2008, 03:23 PM
Um, Frank Miller is polemicist Paul and the other guys who are shitting on him. He's purposely making this book the way it is to piss you off.
I agree with this, I think he's trying to piss a lot of people off, and he's succeeding. I would disagree that that's the way to make good comics though.

ronin7
11-13-2008, 03:46 PM
I agree with this, I think he's trying to piss a lot of people off, and he's succeeding. I would disagree that that's the way to make good comics though.

That's what people say about Mark Millar. But look what happened with Millar? He's gotta be a multi-millionaire if not a millionaire. Miller is been a polemicist his whole career. If you look back at his older works you can see jabs at the Reagan Administration, David Letterman, and all sorts of other subjects he felt strongly about. Hell, another example of polemicist entertainers who make tons of money is Howard Stern and Eminem.

As for Scott Story. I love O'Neil and Adams as well as Englehart and Rogers Batman. But there is no way in hell Grant Morrison's Batman is the character that I grew up up with or have read about in all of the 70's, 80's, and 90's stories that I have gone through. This Batman is a freak designed by Morrison to cock stroke only his devoted cult fans. He doesn't give a damn about the Batman mythos or about the Batman fans.

The only reason Frank Miller is doing this shit is because as he said quite clearly Batman is such an endurable character that he is open to a diverse set of interpretations. While none of you guys like his portrayal of Batman. That is the one he wants to show to the fans for the sake of shock value. When he originally did Batman Year One he realized that the problem with the Silver Age Batman was that he was out of place in such innocent settings and stories. Batman like Daredevil are examples of characters whose backdrops should be urban and bleak with despair and cynicism. Where some times the hero HAS to do evil things to preserve the greater good. Because they don't have the grandeur powers that their fellow heroes do.

Pretty much it just boils down to taste. I am for one glad there is another Batman besides Morrison's weirdo version.

ronin7
11-13-2008, 03:49 PM
while we're on the subject of the All Star books...does anybody know or has it already been posted somewhere about whether or not DC will be releasing any other All Star books anytime soon...?

maybe...?

All Star Flash
All Star Green Lantern
All Star Wonder Woman
All Star Justice League


????

There is supposed to be an All-Star Wonder Woman and All-Star Bat-Girl. But Frank Miller introduced his versions in ASBR and I think that killed what enthusiasm Geoff Johns and the others had for doing their versions.

The Spirit
11-13-2008, 06:17 PM
That's what people say about Mark Millar. But look what happened with Millar? He's gotta be a multi-millionaire if not a millionaire.
I don't equate monetary success with whether something is good or not. I'm sure Miller and Millar both make lots of money, it doesn't mean the product is good.

You may like it and think it's good that part is subjective from person to person, I don't think these comics are good.

pi0trov
11-13-2008, 07:02 PM
There is supposed to be an All-Star Wonder Woman and All-Star Bat-Girl. But Frank Miller introduced his versions in ASBR and I think that killed what enthusiasm Geoff Johns and the others had for doing their versions.
I remember reading (semi-recently) that Adam Hughes was still working on All-Star Wonder Woman. He's writing and illustrating it, so he was supposedly trying to get several issues in the can before they even solicited it. Then he hurt his hand and wasn't able to draw for a while, so who knows....

With any luck, ASBAR will probably be finished by the time ASWW hits the stands.

NickGuy
11-14-2008, 12:32 PM
man all you guys that are offended by ASBAR....i wonder what your reactions would've been had Miller finished his "Holy Terror, Batman" book lol.

WSSmith
11-14-2008, 12:46 PM
man all you guys that are offended by ASBAR....i wonder what your reactions would've been had Miller finished his "Holy Terror, Batman" book lol.


I though it was still coming out, just under a different title?

NickGuy
11-14-2008, 12:47 PM
where did you hear that? I havent heard anything about it since around 2004.

pi0trov
11-14-2008, 06:37 PM
where did you hear that? I havent heard anything about it since around 2004.
Last I heard, he was re-doing it, sans Batman, as an independent project. Just going to be his own (non-DC) superhero vs Al-Qaeda.

NickGuy
11-15-2008, 12:52 PM
oh, did DC back out or something?

ronin7
11-15-2008, 04:10 PM
oh, did DC back out or something?


No, Miller said that as the project grew and grew to the point that the Batman elements didn't fit with his overall idea. So he is using his own original creation. But there have been rumors DC was leary of going through with it given how both far left liberals and other members of the media were offended by his opinions of Muslims.

It doesn't matter though whether he uses Batman or not. The liberals will slam him for the graphic novel. Because they foolishly think we should try and talk peace with Osma Bin Laden when he doesn't know the meaning of the word.

Paul Sanderson
11-16-2008, 04:23 AM
Uh, ronin...this is a comic book, not real life. If Miller ends up being slammed for this, it'll be because it'll (likely) be his usual comic book crud output (or, it'll be great and we'll react accordingly to that). How we react to Bin Laden in real life has nothing to do with Miller's comic book work. Keep the two things separate, huh?

NickGuy
11-16-2008, 02:17 PM
Uh, ronin...this is a comic book, not real life. If Miller ends up being slammed for this, it'll be because it'll (likely) be his usual comic book crud output (or, it'll be great and we'll react accordingly to that). How we react to Bin Laden in real life has nothing to do with Miller's comic book work. Keep the two things separate, huh?


agreed. I think if it ever comes out it will be on the level of awesome as cap punching hitler.

theflash
12-11-2008, 03:00 PM
If Miller ends up being slammed for this, it'll be because it'll (likely) be his usual comic book crud output (or, it'll be great and we'll react accordingly to that).

man, why don't you give it a rest and cut the guy a fucking break? you've got what...4 posts in this one thread talking about how badly Miller sucks, and yet the dude has a body of work that would blow ANY of his current contemporaries out of the water. so what more do you want? his stories obviously don't do it for you. that doesn't mean they don't do it for millions of other people. maybe you should turn that microscope on yourself and consider that perhaps you're being far to analytical and picky when it comes to the good old fashioned super hero story and you should instead learn to relax and just enjoy something for the joy of it rather than it's historically literary significance. or try some Valium. either way, it's ok for people to like Frank Miller and enjoy his work.

Imboden
12-11-2008, 04:12 PM
Frank hit a couple of big grand slams early on (Daredevil, Dark Knight) and some solid home runs (Sin City series) so now when he merely gets a double it's not good enough for a lot of people.

Part of me says it's not fair to grade people's work based on their older stuff. I mean, keeping with the baseball analogy, even Hank Aaron struck out once or twice. :)

NickGuy
12-11-2008, 05:51 PM
actually, in baseball you are successful if you strike out 7 out of 10 times

ronin7
12-11-2008, 06:59 PM
Uh, ronin...this is a comic book, not real life. If Miller ends up being slammed for this, it'll be because it'll (likely) be his usual comic book crud output (or, it'll be great and we'll react accordingly to that). How we react to Bin Laden in real life has nothing to do with Miller's comic book work. Keep the two things separate, huh?


The Bin Laden thing IS relevant because you guys don't like the man's opinions and therefore you place your disposition to his opinions on his work. Say tomorrow he decides to talk about the gay community and says something that offends the gay community. The detractors will automatically trash his work. Just because the man feels the need to express his opinion. I have noticed a large part of the reason Miller gets flack is because people don't like hearing his opinions. So they say he sucks. He's gone nuts. He's descended into hackdom. His work was better 23 years ago. If you guys can't separate your opinions from your enjoyment of his work. Then why read his comics? In fact if you actually do hate the man so much why read any of his comics at all?

hardinart
12-11-2008, 07:09 PM
I just picked up, and read, the first tpb of All Star Batman and Robin.





What an utter piece of shit. This is, possibly, worse storytelling than in Ultimates 3. Not one part of this "story" made any sense. The only good bit was the 3-4 page scne with the Joker. The rest was garbage.

It's clear the only reason this comic was published was because it was Frank Miller and Jim Lee. If Joe Nobody and Dick Whatsisname had pitched this to DC, they would have been laughed out to the sidewalk.

Every other word was godamn. The sequences took waaaay too many pages. The first 6 issues could have (and should have) been 2 issues.

Ridiculous. Two excellent creators teaming up, and this is the result?

Ever since DC made Frank do DK2 I think he just doesn't care about DC stuff the way he used to.

Newt
12-11-2008, 07:57 PM
The Bin Laden thing IS relevant because you guys don't like the man's opinions and therefore you place your disposition to his opinions on his work. Say tomorrow he decides to talk about the gay community and says something that offends the gay community. The detractors will automatically trash his work. Just because the man feels the need to express his opinion. I have noticed a large part of the reason Miller gets flack is because people don't like hearing his opinions. So they say he sucks. He's gone nuts. He's descended into hackdom. His work was better 23 years ago. If you guys can't separate your opinions from your enjoyment of his work. Then why read his comics? In fact if you actually do hate the man so much why read any of his comics at all?

I didn't see anything in this thread about Miller's politics until you brought it up. It's quite possible to dislike his work on the basis of style and quality.

Just for the record, I do like Miller's work. I haven't read any of ASBAR yet. And I don't give three shits about his or any writer's politics- if it's fun, or intriguing, or moving, then I'll like it. Some of the best reading comes from writers whose worldview is very different from one's own.

Paul Sanderson
12-11-2008, 08:57 PM
Well said, Newt.

And let's face it...DC will most likely kowtow to Miller and let him do just about anything he wants. He's treated like a god. No wonder he doesn't care about the work anymore, he can just phone it in, get paid a lot of money and be called a genius.

And ronin...I don't hate the man. I don't know him personally. I dislike his current output of work. That has nothing to do with him personally or his politics etc. I have separated the two. I don't think you have, though.

NickGuy
12-13-2008, 01:01 PM
I always thought it was mostly Bob Schreck, not DC itself, that lets Miller get away with most of his stuff.


and hasnt miller said numerous times in the past how much he hates the work-for-hire stuff at DC and marvel, along with his on-again-off-again relationship with wizard magazine?

Paul Sanderson
12-15-2008, 04:35 AM
It's pretty much all DC, though I'm sure there are certain staff members who do it more than others.

NickGuy
12-15-2008, 03:47 PM
heh...im not gonna lie, If i was at DC and an editor id let miller do whatever he wanted too.

Paul Sanderson
12-15-2008, 04:45 PM
That, there, is the main problem. Nobody has the balls to call Miller on the crap he continually produces. People have deluded themselves into thinking Miller is some sort of creative genius or god. Maybe he was, 20 years ago in the 80s, when he created some landmark stories and could do no wrong. But that is no longer the case today, and people should start waking up and realising this.

Rob Norton
12-15-2008, 06:12 PM
maybe people just like different things than you frank.

rob

ronin7
12-15-2008, 06:38 PM
Well said, Newt.

And let's face it...DC will most likely kowtow to Miller and let him do just about anything he wants. He's treated like a god. No wonder he doesn't care about the work anymore, he can just phone it in, get paid a lot of money and be called a genius.

And ronin...I don't hate the man. I don't know him personally. I dislike his current output of work. That has nothing to do with him personally or his politics etc. I have separated the two. I don't think you have, though.

That explains it in a nutshell. You dislike Miller because he doesn't write the mind numbing overly complex stories that Alan Moore and Grant Morrison are known for or the freak revisions they do on classic icons. While those who do enjoy Miller's work enjoy it for the focus on the overly exaggerated violence and the satirical portrayals of long established characters. Not to mention Miller's excellent grasp of dark and moody urban atmospheres.

A simple difference in taste.

Paul Sanderson
12-15-2008, 06:52 PM
maybe people just like different things than you frank.

rob

Or maybe people are blinded by what Miller was rather than what he is.

And I don't dislike Miller, I dislike his current output of work, which is often boring, cliche and filled with expletives in place of characterisation. His 80s work was masterful. His stuff today is laughably bad.

Mr.Musgrave
12-15-2008, 09:17 PM
I haven't said this in a while so here goes - How many issues of this book have you actually read, not browsed or bullshitted, but READ?

Mike225
12-15-2008, 09:50 PM
maybe people just like different things than you frank.

rob :eek:

Aidy
12-16-2008, 11:26 AM
I haven't said this in a while so here goes - How many issues of this book have you actually read, not browsed or bullshitted, but READ?

1. The first issue. granted I didnt like Millar anyway and i only bought this because I love the idea of saying...I'll get this first issue that is currently hot, slabbed...and then never do.

NickGuy
12-16-2008, 03:16 PM
I haven't said this in a while so here goes - How many issues of this book have you actually read, not browsed or bullshitted, but READ?


every single one thats out....I even bought the special edition of issue 1 that had the script in the back. It was actually pretty well written, jim missed some stuff in translation. Id love to read his scripts for the rest of the series.

NickGuy
12-16-2008, 03:18 PM
That, there, is the main problem. Nobody has the balls to call Miller on the crap he continually produces. People have deluded themselves into thinking Miller is some sort of creative genius or god. Maybe he was, 20 years ago in the 80s, when he created some landmark stories and could do no wrong. But that is no longer the case today, and people should start waking up and realising this.


that right there is something I dont understand. If miller was writing the exact same way as he was in the 80s, he would be BORING. I think Frank Miller now is more interesting than he has ever been in his career.

Paul Sanderson
12-16-2008, 06:13 PM
I never said he should write in the same way, but he should write to the same quality. He isn't, he simply isn't. His stuff today is just poor, POOR, P-O-O-R!

robbdaman
12-16-2008, 06:47 PM
I think Millar has made Batman what Morrison did to Wolverine, turned him into a cras salty talking sailor mouthed crazy that likes to hurt people. I agree it is rather lame, anyone could write it.

R~

Moonrider
12-16-2008, 09:32 PM
every single one thats out....I even bought the special edition of issue 1 that had the script in the back. It was actually pretty well written, jim missed some stuff in translation. Id love to read his scripts for the rest of the series.

That question was not for you, man. ;)

NickGuy
12-17-2008, 02:24 PM
I never said he should write in the same way, but he should write to the same quality. He isn't, he simply isn't. His stuff today is just poor, POOR, P-O-O-R!


you say poor, i say just plain different.

Paul Sanderson
12-17-2008, 05:48 PM
Different, in this instance, is not good. Compare the quality of his 80s work to the quality of his current output, and there is simply no comparison. The former is superb. The latter is pathetic.

NickGuy
12-18-2008, 02:26 PM
so ok...where exactly do you think miller went from good to bad? was it dk2? or 300? or sin city? because IMO, the style of writing is still very much like 300 and sin city, so his change to pathetic would have had to have been around there....or do you just not like the way he handles batman anymore?

WSSmith
12-18-2008, 05:09 PM
Personally I think he's as good or better than ever! I like All Star Batman, but it is not what people "ASSUMED" it would be. It is far more violent and fun, than DC has ever let a writer go with Batman in years.

It feels like the ANTI- "Batman (the TV show)! It's about damn time!

I do believe Jim Lee may have been a poor choice for teaming w/ Miller. The ultimate artist for dynamic action with a guy who writes the best street-level action. It is an odd combo in many ways.

Paul Sanderson
12-18-2008, 05:12 PM
The art is fine on ASBAR. The writing is appallingly awful.

robbdaman
12-18-2008, 05:17 PM
Thing about the writing is that really anyone can do what he's done with this title. Have Batman beat the crap out of people and swear a lot, yeah that takes talent. :rolleyes:

R~

Aidy
12-19-2008, 05:54 AM
Frank Miller has become a poor mans version of Frank Miller

Paul Sanderson
12-19-2008, 04:47 PM
Well said, Aidy.