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Jasen Smith
08-17-2008, 12:56 AM
Top 10 (http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/top10/article/0,30583,1686204_1686244_1692128,00.html)

It says, Robert ZIRKMAN?.....And the number one slot is crap...never heard of it before and they state that its not even graphic novel.

Nick Kerklaan
08-17-2008, 01:08 AM
Fuck you, Time! They're comic books! COMIC BOOKS, you sons of bitches!!!

:man:

Buckyrig
08-17-2008, 01:10 AM
I call 'em foldy floppy toilet time tomes.

The Anti-crest
08-17-2008, 02:49 AM
Fuck you, Time! They're comic books! COMIC BOOKS, you sons of bitches!!!

:man:

who cares what they are called?

I havent read any of those. Wow. The only one that was on my reading list before was Sentences but now I've got a few more. Nice. Thanks for the link.

Nick Kerklaan
08-17-2008, 03:15 AM
who cares what they are called?

I cares.

:man:

The Anti-crest
08-17-2008, 03:28 AM
Why?

kdmelrose
08-17-2008, 09:55 AM
This list was released more than eight months ago.

:laugh:

Achewood isn't a "graphic novel," or a "comic book." It, like Erfworld (No. 6), is a webcomic.

Lev Grossman said that the two works were just too good for him to dwell too much on whether they qualified for a graphic novel list.

JAQ
08-17-2008, 09:56 AM
And the number one slot is crap...never heard of it before and they state that its not even graphic novel.Oh, well, if you've never heard of it, it couldn't possibly be any good... :rolleyes:

JamieRoberts
08-17-2008, 10:16 AM
Hmm... I'm highly sceptical about the inclusion of Marvel Zombies (and the sequel, at that).

Found another, more recent list. I'm more inclined to agree with these choices.

Top 10 graphic novels, part deux (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/jul/30/comics)

Personally, I'd go for:

Pride of Baghdad
The Killing Joke
Violent Cases
In the Shadow of No Towers
The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, vol 2
The Originals
The Nightly News (technically a series but I read it in TPB form)
Watchmen (ditto)
The Dark Knight Returns (again, see above)
Marshal Law Takes Manhattan

kdmelrose
08-17-2008, 10:18 AM
Well, the first was a list of the best of 2007, while the second is of all time.

BIGROD
08-17-2008, 10:19 AM
It's an old list and the writer listed some of the best books he's read recently. It's not a history changing list.

So they got Kirkman's name wrong. Get over it.

If anything, we've discovered some new books to check out if you weren't reading them already.

JamieRoberts
08-17-2008, 10:28 AM
Ahhhh.... me no read gud.

knockedoutpanzer
08-17-2008, 10:43 AM
Lev Grossman sounds like he's trying to be the most pompous, right on a-hole in the world. See this on Jack of Fables :-

Is it a travesty? Or could it just possibly be closer in grim, gritty spirit to the original Grimm-era fairy tales than the Disneyfied, infantilized versions we're used to?

Hyberbole lives, anyway the job of pompous a-hole is taken Grossman! (tis myself :laugh: )

Erfworld isn't a graphic novel and as for this:-

The Principles of Uncertainty collects them into a book that might or might not be a graphic novel maybe that's part of the uncertainty?

I just want to slap him. :man: :slap:

JamieRoberts
08-17-2008, 11:01 AM
Really? I'd rather slap most of the people who come up with lists and reviews on Newsarama. Except Kevin, of course.

kdmelrose
08-17-2008, 11:12 AM
Why, thank you!

:laugh:

knockedoutpanzer
08-17-2008, 11:40 AM
Really? I'd rather slap most of the people who come up with lists and reviews on Newsarama. Except Kevin, of course.


Well you don't need my permission- go get 'em.

Calloway
08-17-2008, 11:43 AM
Watchmen, concrete, Maus... someone's not too bright or trying to be an elitist snob.


I almost thought they were for just 07 releases but they have league listed.

JamieRoberts
08-17-2008, 11:49 AM
Possible, but if every top 10 list included Maus and Watchmen, there'd be no point in continuing publishing them.

Is it possible the list is of actual graphic novels rather than collected single issues?

kdmelrose
08-17-2008, 11:53 AM
Watchmen, concrete, Maus... someone's not too bright or trying to be an elitist snob.


I almost thought they were for just 07 releases but they have league listed.

The Time magazine list is just for 2007. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier was released in November 2007.

So, "someone" may not be too bright ...

:whistlin:

And I don't see how someone who puts Marvel Zombies on any list could rate the "elitist snob" label.

Calloway
08-17-2008, 12:01 PM
He sure went out of his way to make sure the majority of the list was relatively unknown didn't he?

kdmelrose
08-17-2008, 12:08 PM
He sure went out of his way to make sure the majority of the list was relatively unknown didn't he?

I don't know, did he?

Achewood is an incredibly popular webcomic.

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier, All-Star Superman, Jack of Fables, Sentences: The Life of M.F. Grimm and Marvel Zombies were released by the two largest American comics publishers.

The Principles of Uncertainty was released by Penguin, a major international publishing house.

Exit Wounds was hailed on list after list as one of the best -- if not the best -- graphic novels/comics of the year.

And The Complete Peanuts 1963-64 is a collection of one of the best-loved and best-known comic strips.

That leaves, what, Erfworld?

knockedoutpanzer
08-17-2008, 12:30 PM
So in a list of 10 graphic novels -2 aren't even classed as graphic novels? (3 if you include The Principles of Uncertainty).

Who's not too bright? :rolleyes:

kdmelrose
08-17-2008, 12:34 PM
The writer addresses that.

I don't understand the mad rush to label the Grossman dimwitted, or elitist, because of what he did, or didn't, include under the heading "graphic novel."

Also, an Achewood collection will be released next month by Dark Horse. So the sticklers will be able to breathe a sigh of relief.

Buckyrig
08-17-2008, 12:39 PM
So in a list of 10 graphic novels -2 aren't even classed as graphic novels? (3 if you include The Principles of Uncertainty).

Who's not too bright? :rolleyes:

psst..."graphic novel" is a phrase specifically coined as a marketing gimmick. You, of all people, shouldn't be advocating it's use. :whistlin:

knockedoutpanzer
08-17-2008, 12:42 PM
psst..."graphic novel" is a phrase specifically coined as a marketing gimmick. You, of all people, shouldn't be advocating it's use. :whistlin:


Crap I'm a capitalist sell out. (Though not one for TIME thank goodness) :laugh:

Buckyrig
08-17-2008, 12:45 PM
Crap I'm a capitalist sell out. (Though not one for TIME thank goodness) :laugh:

Jello's not gonna perform at your birthday party! :eek:

Good God man! Think of the children. :cry:

knockedoutpanzer
08-17-2008, 12:46 PM
The writer addresses that.

I don't understand the mad rush to label the Grossman dimwitted, or elitist, because of what he did, or didn't, include under the heading "graphic novel."

Also, an Achewood collection will be released next month by Dark Horse. So the sticklers will be able to breathe a sigh of relief.


well I hope it's not this bit -might or might not be a graphic novel maybe that's part of the uncertainty?

:p
Just kidding I shall look at the Achewood GN,(though this no way advocates the use of the capitalist term "graphic novel" as pointed out by comrade Buckyrig :eek: ), with interest.

Nick Kerklaan
08-17-2008, 02:50 PM
http://russianlegacy.com/catalog/images/soviet_collection/flags/FS0088.jpg

knockedoutpanzer
08-17-2008, 03:13 PM
http://russianlegacy.com/catalog/images/soviet_collection/flags/FS0088.jpg


Then raise the scarlet standard high
Within its shade we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.

Buckyrig
08-17-2008, 06:29 PM
Most of Dicken's work was originally published in serial format, and yet the completed works are called novels. Relax. :)













Besides...Graphic Novel is made up nonsense Eisner used to try to sell a book once upon a time.

kdmelrose
08-17-2008, 07:43 PM
If, however, we're using the looser definition of a graphic novel being a large book of comics, regardless of how the material was originally released.......where is FROM HELL?

And, in either instance, with either definition being used....where the F#@$ is Will Eisner?

From Hell was published between 1991 and 1996, and collected in 1999. Will Eisner died in 2005. So, neither qualified for a 2007 best-of list.

Mark Bertolini
08-18-2008, 01:14 PM
Here's my list (if you care at all):

1) Preacher
2) Transmetropolitan
3) Planetary
4) The Invisibles
5) Y: The Last Man
6) Gotham Central
7) Ex Machina
8) The Walking Dead
9) Sleeper
10) Starman