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View Full Version : What comic made you quit or almost quit reading or buying comics?


Eugene Selassie
07-07-2008, 03:22 PM
Avengers Disassembled.

I tried to not let it sour my taste for other good books.

Then I read New Avengers...I gave it 18 issues, more than any person would give to sell them on a book because it was my fav franchise. And I almost faded out of comics completely.

Civil War finished the job.

Took me a while to want to come back.
A while, and Annihilation, Sinestro War, Godland, Ex Machina and Sleeper trades.

kdmelrose
07-07-2008, 03:28 PM
No single issue, or series, could make me want to quit reading comics.

If I don't like a particular title, I simply don't buy it again.

Eugene Selassie
07-07-2008, 03:30 PM
Understandable.

I thought that as well. Many comics I've liked have annoyed me throughout the years at one point or another, so I'd spend money elsewhere.

I don't know, I think it is the way everything was handled. Its like we fans of the series for 40 years were given an unceremonious F--- You.

I understand that it is a business, but there couldve been a better way to transition from Avengers to New Avengers and not be as polarizing.

Magilla1973
07-07-2008, 03:45 PM
I understand that it is a business, but there couldve been a better way to transition from Avengers to New Avengers and not be as polarizing.

You find yourself polarized by comic books ?

BIGROD
07-07-2008, 03:48 PM
Avengers Disassembled.

I tried to not let it sour my taste for other good books.

Then I read New Avengers...I gave it 18 issues, more than any person would give to sell them on a book because it was my fav franchise. And I almost faded out of comics completely.

Civil War finished the job.


Blame it on the Skrulls.

pi0trov
07-07-2008, 03:50 PM
Gotta agree, nothing would ever make me give up comics completely. It'd be like being forced to watch Battlefield Earth and swearing off all movies forever. :laugh:

On the other subject... I'd never collected Avengers until New Avengers (and now also collect Mighty Avengers, whenever it comes out...). Not that I had anything against classic Avengers - I bought and read plenty of Marvel series growing up, but never really felt like picking it up.

I did read most of Dis-Assembled, but only because I was working at a comic shop at the time. The only Avengers book I had "collected" previously was the Avengers Forever maxi-series... So yeah, "different strokes" and all that...

Mwynn
07-07-2008, 03:51 PM
None I just brought more indy books.

Eugene Selassie
07-07-2008, 03:53 PM
Many of my friends that like NA went back and re-read. They all say the book was pretty mediocre pre-Civil War and Disassembled was horrible.

A friend got me to read three issues since Civil War, and I must agree that it seems like a much better book than before.

I might enjoy NA had I never read Disassembled.

Mark Bertolini
07-07-2008, 04:52 PM
I don't think there's a book that could make me quit reading comics. I've spent a good 20+ years reading comics, so it'd have to be a pretty bad comic for me to give up on the whole thing.

There have been some books that I haven't liked very much, which I stopped buying (Fantastic Four is one of them, not digging the Millar/Hitch run at all).

Lovecraft13
07-07-2008, 05:20 PM
No single issue, or series, could make me want to quit reading comics.

What if one in four books gave you facial herpes? Would you still take that chance?

jeffo46
07-07-2008, 05:30 PM
I pretty much stopped buying Marvel and DC's new product with the exceptions of the occasional Showcase or the Essentials series,around 2002 or so,mostly due to the hike in the cover price and also due to the fact that IMO,a lot of the stuff that was coming out,was basically re-hashes of stuff that was already done at least 10-20 years before.Comics were starting to lose their originality for me.It seemed that all art styles were almost the same,and let's face it,Marvel and DC are more concerned with promoting so called "Mega Events",instead of their regular titles which bought them to the dance in the first place.How many times can DC re-do Crisis on Infinte Earths for crissakes? Civil War could've just as well been a X-Men storyline when you think about it.Let's see how long it will be before Captain America returns from the "dead"! I say he'll be back before next year is over.

Ian Ascher
07-07-2008, 05:41 PM
The death of Colossus' sister in the pages of the X-Men did me in on Marvel books for years.

I didn't buy a single Marvel book from that point on until Busiek and Perez re-launched Avengers. To this day I still don't by the main X books. Maybe a mini or a tpb if it looks interesting enough.

Buckyrig
07-07-2008, 07:05 PM
Every five years or so I try reading the X books again...never sticks. (Although I read the entire run of the Milligan/Allred X-Force/X-Statix.)

Cover price is the thing keeping me from reading more than a trade here and there of late. It'll be nice when libraries keep a good a selection of comic trades as they do anything else.

ponyrl
07-07-2008, 07:09 PM
It wasn't one issue, it was the course the industry took and the fact that I was slowly loosing interest.

I'm one of the "usually pick a book or two" at the shop. Or none at all. I go to the shop because I'm still friends with the owner.

The Spirit
07-07-2008, 07:22 PM
The Ultimates was one that was a wake up call for me that Superhero Comics were going places I didn't like. ASBAR was another.

Paul Sanderson
07-07-2008, 07:48 PM
It wasn't one issue, it was the course the industry took and the fact that I was slowly loosing interest.

I'm one of the "usually pick a book or two" at the shop. Or none at all.

I'm the same. I try and buy only indie titles these days. I still like a few things, like GL and Detective Comics, but most of the stuff the majors put out these days is garbage, so I don't waste my money on it. I try and get into the store reasonably regularly, just so I know what's going on around the traps.

ronin7
07-07-2008, 08:30 PM
I read comics off and on for years because of financial issues and they never hooked me in. Then around 2002 I started to get the notion in my head I wanted to be a writer and started doing research. I read a lot of the old stuff and hated about 75% of it because that percentage was silly surrealist crap. What I did like was mostly the innovative down to earth epic-like works like Frank Miller's Born Again, Batman Year One, DKR, Ronin, Man Without Fear, John Byrne's Fantastic Four run, MOS, and Avengers West Coast, Steve Englehart's Batman Dark Detective and it's precursor Strange Apparitions. And the Denny O' Neil Batman. But it wasn't until I read Brian Michael Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man, Avengers Disassembled, New Avengers, Secret War, Torso, Fortune and Glory, and AKA Goldfish that I was sure in which direction I wanted my life to take. As much as people gripe about how Bendis has ruined the Avengers I foresee the Avengers going in a positive direction that will break away the shackles of decadent nostalgia and fan-wanking.

Moonrider
07-07-2008, 09:29 PM
I stopped reading Marvel when they came up with Heroes Reborn: Captain America. Gave up X-Men since The Twelve storyline.

The Anti-crest
07-07-2008, 11:35 PM
When they killed punisher and then brought him back as an angel or what ever the fuck it was. Yuck. I started again with Sandman when I was grown.

Scribbly
07-08-2008, 07:21 AM
I'll never quit of reading or buying comics.
As well movies, TV programs or music, I always select what I want to enjoy.

In comics, I have my favorite characters, but I rather see who is the writer or the artist working on them.
If one of them or both are good, it will be a nice experience.
If is not, I will change the chanel inmediately.

magiktori
07-08-2008, 12:55 PM
The death of Colossus' sister in the pages of the X-Men did me in on Marvel books for years.

I didn't buy a single Marvel book from that point on until Busiek and Perez re-launched Avengers. To this day I still don't by the main X books. Maybe a mini or a tpb if it looks interesting enough.
i havent bought a main xbook since illysnas death either because well she was my favoite

Eugene Selassie
07-08-2008, 01:17 PM
But it wasn't until I read Brian Michael Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man, Avengers Disassembled, New Avengers, Secret War, Torso, Fortune and Glory, and AKA Goldfish that I was sure in which direction I wanted my life to take. As much as people gripe about how Bendis has ruined the Avengers I foresee the Avengers going in a positive direction that will break away the shackles of decadent nostalgia and fan-wanking.

Its not decadent nostalgia or fan wanking.

How about I revamp the JLA franchise by doing a story, with a bunch of characters completely mishandled, murder a few just to shake things up, all because of making a character have a breakdown (a story that was already done and done much better) that came literally out of nowhere. Then I'll have every person ever a Leaguer just quit...because that is what people do on a day like that. (THAT IS LIKE EVERY FIREFIGHTER AND COP IN MANHATTAN ALL QUITTING RIGHT AFTER 9/11.) Lets relaunch the League with Superman and Batman, Hitman, Manhunter, Batwoman, Katana and Resurrection Man. Have them fight ninjas...YES SUPERMAN FIGHT NINJAS, and a bunch of unworthy threats. Then lets murder another superteam for no other reason than "I think they suck".

This whole "Wanda has always been unstable" bit is bullshit. That is the party line for anyone who never really read Avengers or DIDN'T DO THEIR HOMEWORK. NA has its merits, but lets not dance around the issue. THE MASS MAJORITY of people buying this book are newbs that never even gave Avengers a chance, and once Bendis leaves and Spidey/ Wolvie leave the team, those bandwagon fans will be gone and we will be back at square one.

I am all for fresh new directions and I loved shake ups like Morrison/New X-men.

I LOVE Bendis USM, DD, Alias...I just feel that his strong suit is not large casts or anything with a heavy sci-fi/political bend, which covers pretty much the majority of Avengers stories.

Though the book has improved post-Civil War, it still feels like Marvel Knights or the Defenders with an Avengers label slapped on it.

And Mighty Avengers is proof point that there are better suited writers to handling Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

The only Avengers book that is an Avengers book right now is The Initiative...that and anything with the Young Avengers in it.

Calloway
07-08-2008, 01:25 PM
The return of the green Goblin made me quit reading comics.

Bruce Jones On hulk brought me back.

Bruce Jones off Hulk took me off again.

DWP kept me going in the meantime.

C_Lawson
07-08-2008, 01:32 PM
There was a time years ago were I had stopped reading for a while, but it was more because I got caught up with my band and other things, then any flaw with a particular book.
On the reverse side of things, it was Ultimates that got me back into comics. I hadn't been reading anything aside from an trade every now and again. I had always hated the classic avengers, but a friend of mine swore up and down that Ultimates was different so I gave it a chance and fell in love with it. For main stream continuity, House of M is what brought me back into the fold.
What makes me think about giving up on marvel these days is how they constantly undo any significant growth of a character. I know this may be unpopular, but I don't want to read regurgitated spidey stories. Comics like everything else need to grow and change. Imagine if marvel got a new editor and was like "Ya, well I liked the original X-men, so I'm gonna retcon back before giant sized."

Eugene Selassie
07-08-2008, 01:43 PM
What makes me think about giving up on marvel these days is how they constantly undo any significant growth of a character. I know this may be unpopular, but I don't want to read regurgitated spidey stories. Comics like everything else need to grow and change. Imagine if marvel got a new editor and was like "Ya, well I liked the original X-men, so I'm gonna retcon back before giant sized."

I kinda dug Ultimates for what it was.

I wholeheartedly agree. The whole illusion of change thing is getting tired. Keeping a character at the same point in life indefinitely robs the aspect that a character will learn the life lessons of his story and act accordingly.

BND is proof-point that Peter at age 27 is making the same bone headed mistakes as Peter at age 16.

Peter has more experience than more than half the heroes of the Marvel U and it is just rediculous how he is being handled now.

knockedoutpanzer
07-08-2008, 02:01 PM
"Countdown" and "52" put me off DC almost for life. I did buy "Lord Havok" recently though.

Jamie Delanos current Narcopolis irritated me so much I didn't even finish reading it.

I think I'd just fade without my weekly fix of something comic like.

Scott Story
07-08-2008, 04:11 PM
I stopped buying the monthlies when I quit my day job and went freelance; after that, money was too tight to keep buying.

I was already sick of all the deaths at DC, so Infinite Crisis really bummed me out. And, Civil War from Marvel, with it's crying, surrendering Captain America had really rubbed me eight ways to wrong. It just seemed that with all these characters dying, or acting out of character, that I was no longer the audience they were trying to reach.

I still occassionally get trades, but not very often. I enjoy a lot of indie comics now, and I usually pick them up at conventions or from friends.

Eugene Selassie
07-08-2008, 04:20 PM
It just seemed that with all these characters dying, or acting out of character, that I was no longer the audience they were trying to reach.


Wow.

I think he hit the nail on the head.

kdmelrose
07-08-2008, 04:50 PM
"Disassembled" was four years ago and you still get worked up about it!

:laugh:

Eugene Selassie
07-08-2008, 04:52 PM
"Disassembled" was four years ago and you still get worked up about it!

:laugh:

Hey, If you went from 40-50 books a month to 2 and you DON'T have financial problems, thats a sign that a book pissed you off.

HaphazardJoy
07-08-2008, 05:20 PM
I don't think a single title could make me lose interest towards comics in general.

Eugene Selassie
07-08-2008, 05:30 PM
Sorry. Avengers held a special place in my heart. It first grabbed my interest in the 80s and Busiek/Perez got me through some pretty bad (life altering) stuff in the 90s.

I'm sorry if I can't just lie down and accept defeat.

HaphazardJoy
07-08-2008, 06:01 PM
Yeah, I can get that, I can get dropping all Avengers related titles over that, if you were THAT hurt, maybe even dropping Marvel. Still, I don't think I could stay away from everything else.

kdmelrose
07-08-2008, 06:07 PM
I'm sorry if I can't just lie down and accept defeat.

:blink:

That implies there's some sort of battle being waged. If there was, I'm pretty sure the other side won handily, in Anglo-Zanzibar fashion.

Eugene Selassie
07-08-2008, 06:22 PM
:blink:

That implies there's some sort of battle being waged. If there was, I'm pretty sure the other side won handily, in Anglo-Zanzibar fashion.

Guerilla tactics my friend.

Guerilla tactics.

pi0trov
07-08-2008, 06:39 PM
THE MASS MAJORITY of people buying this book are newbs that never even gave Avengers a chance, and once Bendis leaves and Spidey/ Wolvie leave the team, those bandwagon fans will be gone and we will be back at square one.
Quite possibly... Like I said, I hadn't collected Avengers prior to New, but then I was never really a big fan of most of Marvel's "big guns" (Thor, Cap, Iron Man, etc.). And I didn't start reading New because it had Avengers in the title, but because Bendis was writing it AND I was a fan of some of the other characters - Cage, Iron Fist, Spidey and Echo (well, I thought it was going to be Daredevil, but it worked out all right in the end...).

If Bendis does leave the title, I'll definately try to keep reading it, but if the creative team ends up being horrible I'll drop it. It's just that simple - read the stuff you like, by the creators you like, and ignore the crap that you hate.

Oh, and I did stop buying New during the Collective storyarc. Read the first issue, didn't like it, didn't read the rest... then I came back when it was all over. I'm also an Alpha Flight fan, but I'm not going to hold a grudge against Bendis for what he did to them; it's not the first crappy treatment AF has received and I'm sure it won't be the last... Although being Alaskan born and raised I found North Pole getting destroyed freakin' hilarious. :laugh:

jeffers
07-08-2008, 07:03 PM
I had collected every Uncanny X-Men since #213 (Wolvy v. Sabretooth, drawn by Paul Smith), continuing the collection that my older brothers and sister started back in the 70's. Then Chuck Austen came, and Nightcrawler turned into the devil's son, Josh Guthrie grew wings, Angelo "Torres" was killed, Polaris went psycho...oh, and Warren became a pedophile. And wasn't there some crazy nurse Alex liked and some fish kid Juggernaut killed? I dunno. I switched to heroin by that point. Anything to numb the pain. Oh, and every conversation between characters devolved into a shouting match.

After #411 I stopped collecting X-Men. It broke my heart. But mainly it made me wish vile things would happen to Chuck Austen. Cruel, unspeakable things. I didn't come back to UXM until Brubaker's run. By then, I thought I could love again.

Now, I'm pissed at Jeph Loeb.

What in the name of all that is holy has he done to "The Ultimates"?!?!?!

Ron Phillips
07-08-2008, 07:29 PM
I can't say any one comic lead me to stop buying regular monthlies almost 5 years ago. It was basically the cost and the system. I really hate being required to pre-order comics. To fill out a form every month and speculate on titles that haven't come out yet. This is attributed to a healthy appetite for indy books. I just wanted it to be like it was, where I could goto the shop and pick up new books.

Before I really rant on it, because I tend to, I just want to say ... I still like comics, pick up trades, order online when I can.

Just picked up Q&C collecting the first 4 series. Sweet deal at $20. Of course I think I had a couple of the series already. lol.

BJCochran
07-08-2008, 07:31 PM
Let see my story. Over the past five years I have busted my hump collecting all of the Amazing Spider-man issues from the two different volumes (Including Amazing Fantasy 15 and annuals) but I recently gave up the title during this Brand New Day crap.

I read all the way until issue 560 and havent gotten another yet. Another favorite of mine was The Hulk but the way Jeph Loeb handles that title just makes me want to hide my head--he is actually making me want to re-read the relaunch by John Bryne (Which was horrible!!!) and enjoy it. So that might be on thew ay out as well.

So right now my pull list is Criminal Macabre, Angel, Supernatural, and Hack/Slash

sevans
07-08-2008, 07:41 PM
The reason I rarely purchase comics now is the Price and DVD's.

They are about $7 each in NZ for a standard issue.
I'ld rather wait for something I really want to be collected or buy a graphic novel. Plus, my tastes have moved away from the Marvel/DC superhero stuff.

The only relatively recent comic I have subscribed to was the Cary Nord run on Conan. Made me love comics again.

AND being a movie nut, and the fact you can buy films from about $10 when they are slightly old means I spend most of my extra non-bill paying money on DVD's.

Moonrider
07-08-2008, 08:10 PM
I think Infinite Crisis is what brought me back to comics. 52 and Blue Beetle made me excited like a schoolboy again. Now no 52 and Blue Beetle doesn't hold up too well at the hands of Will Pfeifer. I'll have to rethink my position as a comic reader after Final Crisis is over.

ronin7
07-09-2008, 06:30 PM
Its not decadent nostalgia or fan wanking.

How about I revamp the JLA franchise by doing a story, with a bunch of characters completely mishandled, murder a few just to shake things up, all because of making a character have a breakdown (a story that was already done and done much better) that came literally out of nowhere. Then I'll have every person ever a Leaguer just quit...because that is what people do on a day like that. (THAT IS LIKE EVERY FIREFIGHTER AND COP IN MANHATTAN ALL QUITTING RIGHT AFTER 9/11.) Lets relaunch the League with Superman and Batman, Hitman, Manhunter, Batwoman, Katana and Resurrection Man. Have them fight ninjas...YES SUPERMAN FIGHT NINJAS, and a bunch of unworthy threats. Then lets murder another superteam for no other reason than "I think they suck".

This whole "Wanda has always been unstable" bit is bullshit. That is the party line for anyone who never really read Avengers or DIDN'T DO THEIR HOMEWORK. NA has its merits, but lets not dance around the issue. THE MASS MAJORITY of people buying this book are newbs that never even gave Avengers a chance, and once Bendis leaves and Spidey/ Wolvie leave the team, those bandwagon fans will be gone and we will be back at square one.

I am all for fresh new directions and I loved shake ups like Morrison/New X-men.

I LOVE Bendis USM, DD, Alias...I just feel that his strong suit is not large casts or anything with a heavy sci-fi/political bend, which covers pretty much the majority of Avengers stories.

Though the book has improved post-Civil War, it still feels like Marvel Knights or the Defenders with an Avengers label slapped on it.

And Mighty Avengers is proof point that there are better suited writers to handling Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

The only Avengers book that is an Avengers book right now is The Initiative...that and anything with the Young Avengers in it.

Let's look at the best and worst points of both iterations of the past and current Avengers Eugene.

Classic Avengers

Best Points

1. Dynamic teamwork.

2. Epic storylines penned by Roy Thomas and Roger Stern.

3. Colorful characters.

4. Silver Age and Bronze Age runs had some of the greatest artists of that time on board.

Worst Points

1. Rigid and inflexible roster structure.

2. Retarded character assassinations. (Hank Pym becoming a wife beater, Monica Lambeau becoming compentent leader of the Avengers with no explanation, Wasp going from a flighty fashion designer with no leadership skills and a shallow outlook to great and kind leader of the Avengers)

3. Too much repetition of familiar roles.

4. Minor characters getting unexplained leader-like positions in the team when they haven't proved themselves as a leader or don't have the skill. AKA Claremontitis.

5. Rehashed storylines.

6. Certain Villains never got any sort of updating in their goals and objectives nor their equipment to reflect the Modern Age.

7. A lame villain like Immortus got upgraded into all-seeing, all-knowing Machiavellian who had a hand in the Avengers creation. (Bleh!)

8. Kurt Busiek wrote the book.

9. Inexplicable power boosts that came out of nowhere or with no rational explanation. AKA the Scarlet Witch syndrome.

New Avengers

Best Points

1. Brand New Setting

2. More flexible roster

3. More of a noir feel for fans of Film Noir and crime fiction.

4. Characters that many believed deserving of Avengers status finally attained it. (Not counting losers like Nova.)

5. Complex and intriguing and long reaching sub-plots

6. No more deus ex machina from Scarlet Witch.

7. No familiar roles rehashed.

8. Stories don't feel rehashed.

Worst Points

1. Wanda's breakdown could have used more build up and exploration. Or Bendis could have possibly given another reason that didn't feel cheesy as to why she snapped.

2. House of M and Decimation gutted the premise of the X-Men.

3. Civil War felt forced into the scheme of the overall long term plan that Bendis has.

4. Tony Stark taken to the extremes of his paranoia and controlling personality, which has left him acting out of character.

5. Scott Lang being killed off when he was a viable character.


All in all that's how I see it. And I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think the good outweights the bad of the previous incarnation.

Eugene Selassie
07-09-2008, 07:07 PM
Let's look at the best and worst points of both iterations of the past and current Avengers Eugene.

Classic Avengers

Best Points

1. Dynamic teamwork.

2. Epic storylines penned by Roy Thomas and Roger Stern.

3. Colorful characters.

4. Silver Age and Bronze Age runs had some of the greatest artists of that time on board.

Worst Points

1. Rigid and inflexible roster structure.

2. Retarded character assassinations. (Hank Pym becoming a wife beater, Monica Lambeau becoming compentent leader of the Avengers with no explanation, Wasp going from a flighty fashion designer with no leadership skills and a shallow outlook to great and kind leader of the Avengers)

3. Too much repetition of familiar roles.

4. Minor characters getting unexplained leader-like positions in the team when they haven't proved themselves as a leader or don't have the skill. AKA Claremontitis.

5. Rehashed storylines.

6. Certain Villains never got any sort of updating in their goals and objectives nor their equipment to reflect the Modern Age.

7. A lame villain like Immortus got upgraded into all-seeing, all-knowing Machiavellian who had a hand in the Avengers creation. (Bleh!)

8. Kurt Busiek wrote the book.

9. Inexplicable power boosts that came out of nowhere or with no rational explanation. AKA the Scarlet Witch syndrome.

New Avengers

Best Points

1. Brand New Setting

2. More flexible roster

3. More of a noir feel for fans of Film Noir and crime fiction.

4. Characters that many believed deserving of Avengers status finally attained it. (Not counting losers like Nova.)

5. Complex and intriguing and long reaching sub-plots

6. No more deus ex machina from Scarlet Witch.

7. No familiar roles rehashed.

8. Stories don't feel rehashed.

Worst Points

1. Wanda's breakdown could have used more build up and exploration. Or Bendis could have possibly given another reason that didn't feel cheesy as to why she snapped.

2. House of M and Decimation gutted the premise of the X-Men.

3. Civil War felt forced into the scheme of the overall long term plan that Bendis has.

4. Tony Stark taken to the extremes of his paranoia and controlling personality, which has left him acting out of character.

5. Scott Lang being killed off when he was a viable character.


All in all that's how I see it. And I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think the good outweights the bad of the previous incarnation.

For the bad, you forgot to add...

6.) Characters not being handled properly (Captain America, Iron Fist, Dr Strange, MS MARVEL, Wasp, Sentry YES I AM DEFENDING THE GAWDAWFUL SENTRY, HAWKEYE HAWKEYE HAWKEYE why would someone want be the second worst hand to hand fighter on a team when they could be the best marksman on a team with NO LONG RANGE FIGHTERS?)

7.) Avengers supposed to handle stuff no other team could handle...

Um, Savage Land mutates? Ninjas? Symbiotes? uggh.

8.) Chances for great villains to shine are not taken, instead we get Deus Ex Machina. (Magneto showing up to end Disassembled. Sentry showed up to end The Raft arc and instead of giving us what couldve been fight of the year, Sentry vs Count Nefaria, we get Sentry ripping Carnage in half, WHICH BENDIS ADMITTED was his F-U to the 90s...Lets sacrifice a great fight scene for a ha ha moment. Ultron with Boobs for no reason, he couldve at least said she was Alkhema, but that is what a writer who does his homework would do. Doom with the worst dialogue he has ever been written with.)

9.) Big event stories used to cover up lapses in editorial and continuity gaffes.

10.) THE FACT THAT AVENGERS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A FUCKING CRIME-NOIR BOOK, IT IS A SCI-FI/POLITICAL THRILLER.
ULTIMATES IS MORE AVENGERS THAN NEW OR MIGHTY AVENGERS EVER WILL BE.

Paul Sanderson
07-09-2008, 07:21 PM
Avengers hasn't been well handled since Busiek/Perez/Davis were on the team. Before that, not since Roger Stern. The current Avengers is one of the worst books out there today IMO.

Nick Kerklaan
07-10-2008, 04:25 AM
I can see this has turned into another "comics aren't as good now as they were when I first started reading them" thread.

Well, maybe not.

It might've started as one.

darkwriter
07-10-2008, 08:29 AM
we get Sentry ripping Carnage in half, WHICH BENDIS ADMITTED was his F-U to the 90s.

Now I like a lot of what Bendis has done so I have no desire to bash him, but when I saw that scene I almost said F-U to him as Carnage (and the symbiotes in general) are some of my favorite characters while Sentry is just "really really really x infinity" LAME

Aidy
07-10-2008, 08:54 AM
the Sentry was better when he had beard and ripped Carnage in half. After he shaved I lost intrest.
Bendis' Avengers is the only Avengers I've ever read. And this is due to the total shitness of the lineup in past collections.
For instance....

Aleta
Jack Bale (construction worker) Dear God!
Justice
Dark Hawk (a shit defender)
Deathcry
Demoliton Man (sly stallone?)
Dr Druid
Fire bird
Gilgamesh
STAR FOX....a rapist is on the loose

I could go on and on...but lets be honest these are some lame creations and non of them have any business near the great team that the avengers is and should be. what bendis did was get rid of all the crap third rate characters and filled the spots with A stars and B stars A for the kapow element and B for the characterisation.

I never liked the Scarlet Witch/Vision/Wonderman triangle thing. In fact Wanada is possibly the worst character in Marvel in terms of shitty stories "oh my kids are figments of my imagination"

And honestly, the way the fanboys moaned about how "we deserve better treatment" when Bendis wrote Disassembled was the most childish lamest cry for attention I've ever seen. "how dare he do that to the Scarlet Witch and Scott Lang". Shut up. Its this kind of fan boy b.s. that makes me ashamed to be a comic book fan.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 11:09 AM
the Sentry was better when he had beard and ripped Carnage in half. After he shaved I lost intrest.
Bendis' Avengers is the only Avengers I've ever read. And this is due to the total shitness of the lineup in past collections.
For instance....

Aleta
Jack Bale (construction worker) Dear God!
Justice
Dark Hawk (a shit defender)
Deathcry
Demoliton Man (sly stallone?)
Dr Druid
Fire bird
Gilgamesh
STAR FOX....a rapist is on the loose

I could go on and on...but lets be honest these are some lame creations and non of them have any business near the great team that the avengers is and should be. what bendis did was get rid of all the crap third rate characters and filled the spots with A stars and B stars A for the kapow element and B for the characterisation.

I never liked the Scarlet Witch/Vision/Wonderman triangle thing. In fact Wanada is possibly the worst character in Marvel in terms of shitty stories "oh my kids are figments of my imagination"

And honestly, the way the fanboys moaned about how "we deserve better treatment" when Bendis wrote Disassembled was the most childish lamest cry for attention I've ever seen. "how dare he do that to the Scarlet Witch and Scott Lang". Shut up. Its this kind of fan boy b.s. that makes me ashamed to be a comic book fan.

I've never wanted to say Fuck off more.

Dude, just because we don't jump on bandwagons like you, that means everything we like sucks?

We're supposed to be happy when characters we love are totally written out of character?

Let someone do this shit to the X-men franchise. There will be riots in the streets.

kdmelrose
07-10-2008, 11:11 AM
Let someone do this shit to the X-men franchise. There will be riots in the streets.

I take it you haven't met Chuck Austen?

Aidy
07-10-2008, 11:18 AM
Take a breath there champ.

er....okay. band wagon jumping...whats the basis for that? Other than Wha, wha, wha, hand me a hankie. If i buy a issue number 1 am i jumping on the band wagon? shit i better send back Trinity 1, Green Lantern re-birth 1, Crisis 1, Civil War 1, Astonishing X-men 1 and Next Wave 1....only buying stuff from issue 3 onwards now.

i dont recall anyone publically writing to Grant Morrison via Wizard/DW/Newsarama telling him to eat shit when Jean Grey was killed and her postion usurped by the White Skank.

Oh a charater I love has been killed...well i better go and campout side Rucka and John's houses then hadnt I so I can stab them for killing off Ted Kord. No hang on it was for the benefit of story.

what exactly was it that angered you so much in my post? was it that I said Star FOx was a rapist? Or that the majority of the Avengers line up wasnt worthy of being one of the Champions never mind one of Earths greatest denfenders?

What a load of toss.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 11:26 AM
Take a breath there champ.

er....okay. band wagon jumping...whats the basis for that? Other than Wha, wha, wha, hand me a hankie. If i buy a issue number 1 am i jumping on the band wagon? shit i better send back Trinity 1, Green Lantern re-birth 1, Crisis 1, Civil War 1, Astonishing X-men 1 and Next Wave 1....only buying stuff from issue 3 onwards now.

i dont recall anyone publically writing to Grant Morrison via Wizard/DW/Newsarama telling him to eat shit when Jean Grey was killed and her postion usurped by the White Skank.

Oh a charater I love has been killed...well i better go and campout side Rucka and John's houses then hadnt I so I can stab them for killing off Ted Kord. No hang on it was for the benefit of story.

what exactly was it that angered you so much in my post? was it that I said Star FOx was a rapist? Or that the majority of the Avengers line up wasnt worthy of being one of the Champions never mind one of Earths greatest denfenders?

What a load of toss.

Its not what you said, its how you said it.

Can you turn the douchebag down to a 2?

We were having a good debate, then you came in with the incredibly insulting posts.

Aidy
07-10-2008, 11:31 AM
I am not a shower bag.

you ever see that episode of friends were Chandler accuses Joey of turning into a woman?
"Its not what you said, its how you said it."

And how did I insult you?

Aidy
07-10-2008, 11:31 AM
this is sooooo closed in ten seconds.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 11:35 AM
this is sooooo closed in ten seconds.

Notice they have been open for days and there were no problems until you and Kerkklan showed.

Funny.

Aidy
07-10-2008, 11:39 AM
whatever dude.

I wasnt attacking you or your devotion to old avengers. i never mentioned your name. Did I? I dont recall saying the problem with the old avengers was Eugene use to read it all the time....did I? I just said some of the characters were very lame.

My real problem is with people giving Bendis grief for doing a story that he was asked to do by his bosses.



Shesh.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 11:47 AM
whatever dude.

I wasnt attacking you or your devotion to old avengers. i never mentioned your name. Did I? I dont recall saying the problem with the old avengers was Eugene use to read it all the time....did I? I just said some of the characters were very lame.

My real problem is with people giving Bendis grief for doing a story that he was asked to do by his bosses.



Shesh.

I think Bendis is an excellent writer, but he is definitely no jack of all trades writer like James Robinson or Paul Jenkins. He has a niche and when he strays from that his flaws as a writer become more apparent.

I celebrate his Alias, his Daredevil, hell I put dozens of people onto his Ultimate Spidey.

I just think there are writers currently working at Marvel who wouldve been better suited to reboot the franchise.

Aidy
07-10-2008, 11:52 AM
Indeed.

And who would you have prefered? Mark Miller, Garth Ennnis, Chuck Dixon?
And to be fair, a event as big as the breaking of the Avengers needed the best writer they had...and thats Bendis. He is the biggest fish in the Marvel pond at the moment.

the term "Jack of all trades" means you not very good at the trades you doing....hence the full phrase; "jack of trades, master of none"

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 11:57 AM
Indeed.

And who would you have prefered? Mark Miller, Garth Ennnis, Chuck Dixon?
And to be fair, a event as big as the breaking of the Avengers needed the best writer they had...and thats Bendis. He is the biggest fish in the Marvel pond at the moment.

the term "Jack of all trades" means you not very good at the trades you doing....hence the full phrase; "jack of trades, master of none"

Though I don't like alot of his work, I think Millar understands how to write a strong Avengers story, than the current Avengers books which could be strong stories, if not for the Avengers label slapped on.

Aidy
07-10-2008, 12:07 PM
i dont know dude,
The escape from the raft, the fight in japan againts 100's of ninja's.Captian america having a word with Spider woman about her loyalty. Iron man and Spiderman's friendship. the ruck in the savage land...and then it was all ripped apart. during civil War...which i grant you..wasnt brilliant. but the formation of the two new teams has been quite cool.
have you read any of the new avengers/mighty avengers stuff? Really man, give it a go. Its really quite cool. Best Marvel team book. By a light year.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 12:18 PM
i dont know dude,
The escape from the raft, the fight in japan againts 100's of ninja's.Captian america having a word with Spider woman about her loyalty. Iron man and Spiderman's friendship. the ruck in the savage land...and then it was all ripped apart. during civil War...which i grant you..wasnt brilliant. but the formation of the two new teams has been quite cool.
have you read any of the new avengers/mighty avengers stuff? Really man, give it a go. Its really quite cool. Best Marvel team book. By a light year.

I disliked Mighty Avengers. Dialogue was trite compared to New. It seems like he at least knows how to write New (most likely because his sandbox characters Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Peter Parker, Logan, Jessica Drew, Echo are in that book) and he doesn't have a clue when it comes to the long time Avengers in Mighty, or Cap/ Iron man/ Hawkeye in New.
NA has gotten better post Civil War, but not enough to excuse those horrendous first twenty four issues.

Aidy
07-10-2008, 12:34 PM
in some reagrds I agree. the thought Bubble device is in my opinion actually making the book seem naive. Hawkeye? I dunno, I like the idea of him distancing himself form his former life, but as someone else said why be another close combat fighter when you're one of the best sharp shooters in the universe?

I think his Captain America was right on the money. the issues during Civil war when he was running from shield and he lead the fight against the pro registraion team....dude, that cap ruled. shame he was a skrull.

what was so bad about the first 24?

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 01:02 PM
in some reagrds I agree. the thought Bubble device is in my opinion actually making the book seem naive. Hawkeye? I dunno, I like the idea of him distancing himself form his former life, but as someone else said why be another close combat fighter when you're one of the best sharp shooters in the universe?

I think his Captain America was right on the money. the issues during Civil war when he was running from shield and he lead the fight against the pro registraion team....dude, that cap ruled. shame he was a skrull.

what was so bad about the first 24?

I think the reason you like it. It became crime-noir.

That's like taking The Bourne Identity and making it a comedy, or Star Wars into a porno.
Avengers=Political thriller/sci-fi.
You can have flexibilty, but once you change the genre, it is no longer what you claim it is.

kdmelrose
07-10-2008, 01:05 PM
You can have flexibilty, but once you change the genre, it is no longer what you claim it is.

Wait, what?

Aidy
07-10-2008, 01:07 PM
how is it crime noir? Its not written by Frank Miller.

I think having shield rotten from the inside and Captian America attempting to do something about it...is political. spliting the heroes of the marvel universe into pro and anti registration camps is political and the sci-fi element comes from them all having powers. And fighting green talking dinosaur men.

Mark Bertolini
07-10-2008, 01:10 PM
in some reagrds I agree. the thought Bubble device is in my opinion actually making the book seem naive. Hawkeye? I dunno, I like the idea of him distancing himself form his former life, but as someone else said why be another close combat fighter when you're one of the best sharp shooters in the universe?

I think his Captain America was right on the money. the issues during Civil war when he was running from shield and he lead the fight against the pro registraion team....dude, that cap ruled. shame he was a skrull.

what was so bad about the first 24?


I agree. That Cap was kickass, it's actually the first time I was ever interested in Captain America. When he was on the SHIELD helicarrier, and Maria Hill told him the plan to go after the costumed heroes and he said No, and then beat the shit out of a bunch of Shield agents, that was awesome.
I like Brubaker's Cap, but he never did anything quite that cool with him (at least not from what I've read...)

Mark Bertolini
07-10-2008, 01:22 PM
On the subject of the Avengers, though, I do have to say that I was never interested in the book until the Disassembled storyline. I wasn't much of a fan of the early NA books because I don't like Finch's art, but when Leinel Yu came on board, I started really collecting the series.
I think I'm probably the target reader for the re-launch, since that's what got me buying the books in the first place.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 01:22 PM
I agree. That Cap was kickass, it's actually the first time I was ever interested in Captain America. When he was on the SHIELD helicarrier, and Maria Hill told him the plan to go after the costumed heroes and he said No, and then beat the shit out of a bunch of Shield agents, that was awesome.
I like Brubaker's Cap, but he never did anything quite that cool with him (at least not from what I've read...)

Cap wouldn't have gone to physicality first.

I love how Ed Bru's Cap subtly makes fun of other writer's handling of Cap.

The France example was the best.

Aidy
07-10-2008, 01:24 PM
Indeed. and Cap warned them he'd bring the thunder if they continued with their foolish action he wooped their keisters...and then he hijacked a jet and flew out of there. badass.
It would seem to me that what the problem people have with NA is they arent fighting
Ultron and Task Master every issue. But to be honest I always thought thoese stories we're lame.
i like having a more "street" NA team, and a more "holy shit big dragons" MA team

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 03:20 PM
In Ed Bru's Cap, Steve said he hates how people make fun of France these days. Ignorant Americans these days weren't there in 1943-44 when civilians, women and children, had to become guerilla fighters against the Nazi invaders in their homeland.

That issue came out mere weeks after Ultimates1 #11 where Ultimate Cap made that asinine comment.

Nick Kerklaan
07-10-2008, 04:16 PM
Remember when Frank Miller went and made Batman all dark and "crime noir" with Dark Knight Returns? What a load of shit that was. Whatever happened to good old fashioned Batman-and-Robin-travelling-around-through-space-and-being-turned-into-gorillas stories? It's like these piece of shit hack writers don't even care what happened in the sixties!!!

ronin7
07-10-2008, 04:19 PM
For the bad, you forgot to add...

6.) Characters not being handled properly (Captain America, Iron Fist, Dr Strange, MS MARVEL, Wasp, Sentry YES I AM DEFENDING THE GAWDAWFUL SENTRY, HAWKEYE HAWKEYE HAWKEYE why would someone want be the second worst hand to hand fighter on a team when they could be the best marksman on a team with NO LONG RANGE FIGHTERS?)

7.) Avengers supposed to handle stuff no other team could handle...

Um, Savage Land mutates? Ninjas? Symbiotes? uggh.

8.) Chances for great villains to shine are not taken, instead we get Deus Ex Machina. (Magneto showing up to end Disassembled. Sentry showed up to end The Raft arc and instead of giving us what couldve been fight of the year, Sentry vs Count Nefaria, we get Sentry ripping Carnage in half, WHICH BENDIS ADMITTED was his F-U to the 90s...Lets sacrifice a great fight scene for a ha ha moment. Ultron with Boobs for no reason, he couldve at least said she was Alkhema, but that is what a writer who does his homework would do. Doom with the worst dialogue he has ever been written with.)

9.) Big event stories used to cover up lapses in editorial and continuity gaffes.

10.) THE FACT THAT AVENGERS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A FUCKING CRIME-NOIR BOOK, IT IS A SCI-FI/POLITICAL THRILLER.
ULTIMATES IS MORE AVENGERS THAN NEW OR MIGHTY AVENGERS EVER WILL BE.


1. Don't ever raise your voice to me again.

2. While the Avengers role was to face those threats that no single hero could handle alone. They ended up facing the same damn villains over and over and over again. While fans like yourself enjoyed the repetition. There are people like me who prefer reading work that is fresh by writers who try to at least be original in terms of of story and theme. Which is everything Bendis is and everything Busiek is not.

3. If you expect to get a job or even make a career as a comic writer I'd suggest you reign in your temper other wise you'll be seen as temperamental and unprofessional.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 04:35 PM
Remember when Frank Miller went and made Batman all dark and "crime noir" with Dark Knight Returns? What a load of shit that was. Whatever happened to good old fashioned Batman-and-Robin-travelling-around-through-space-and-being-turned-into-gorillas stories? It's like these piece of shit hack writers don't even care what happened in the sixties!!!

Never let us forget how much of an asshole you are.

:har:

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 04:40 PM
1. Don't ever raise your voice to me again.

2. While the Avengers role was to face those threats that no single hero could handle alone. They ended up facing the same damn villains over and over and over again. While fans like yourself enjoyed the repetition. There are people like me who prefer reading work that is fresh by writers who try to at least be original in terms of of story and theme. Which is everything Bendis is and everything Busiek is not.

3. If you expect to get a job or even make a career as a comic writer I'd suggest you reign in your temper other wise you'll be seen as temperamental and unprofessional.

Sorry, but it seems I'm having to repeat myself over and over.
I don't hate Bendis. I love his work...just not his Avengers work.

I don't want same old same old stories, but I don't want a writer to come in and try to take this grand story and lineage and condense it into something else because his scope is so small, and because he only knows how to write a solid 6 or 7 characters well.

Nick Kerklaan
07-10-2008, 04:41 PM
Never let us forget how much of an asshole you are.

Good thinking! And I won't forget how much of a whiny fanboy who always makes the exact same points about how his favourite books suck now and how anyone who disagrees with him must be fucking crazy and instead of responding to anyone's arguments either calls them names or whines about how they had to come in and made a perfectly fine thread into an an argument even though god forbid he actually read what anyone says and respond to that instead of turning everything into drama queen histrionics you are!

:har:

Mark Bertolini
07-10-2008, 04:49 PM
And let's not forget that the A on Captain America's head doesn't stand for France.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 04:53 PM
And let's not forget that the A on Captain America's head doesn't stand for France.


LOL

You are a trip my friend.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 05:10 PM
And my apologies Ronin. You like what you like, I just get sick of hearing "What you like sucks" and such when these people never read Avengers until New. I wish people would least read before you judge.

9 out of 10 people that I speak with that hate classic Avengers never even read it.
:(

Nick Kerklaan
07-10-2008, 05:23 PM
And my apologies Ronin. You like what you like, I just get sick of hearing "What you like sucks" and such when these people never read Avengers until New. I wish people would least read before you judge.

9 out of 10 people that I speak with that hate classic Avengers never even read it.
:(

You're sick of hearing "What you like sucks"?

That's all your posts are!

kdmelrose
07-10-2008, 05:26 PM
http://badelements.net/touche.jpg

raya
07-10-2008, 05:36 PM
Many of the kids or younger adults haven't read the Classic Avengers, though they should. I stopped buying the Avengers when John Byrne (though I loved his art and Superman comics) killed off the Vision. When my brother bought it I would read it once in awhile, but I never liked it that much since. Though I did like the Ultimate Avengers.

Buckyrig
07-10-2008, 05:43 PM
Never let us forget how much of an asshole you are.

:har:

Nick??? :huh: :confused: :huh: :confused:

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 05:53 PM
You're sick of hearing "What you like sucks"?

That's all your posts are!

Yes...and I've read it to know that.

People and their strawman "I've never read it, but I know it sucks" argument have no leg to stand on.

kdmelrose
07-10-2008, 05:55 PM
People and their strawman "I've never read it, but I know it sucks" argument have no leg to stand on.

That's not a straw man, but your statement is.

ronin7
07-10-2008, 05:55 PM
And my apologies Ronin. You like what you like, I just get sick of hearing "What you like sucks" and such when these people never read Avengers until New. I wish people would least read before you judge.

9 out of 10 people that I speak with that hate classic Avengers never even read it.
:(

I understand your frustration. I used to (and still do at some points) get the same way when people say or have said the X-Men comics circa Claremont's golden age where shit and that Grant Morrison was or is a god and made the X-Men a million times more interesting. But then after doing more research and sampling the run I saw that he did bring up some good points about the X-Men being out of touch with today's racial climate. While racism is still rampant. You don't see people running around with pitch forks or lynch parties with Civil Rights laws having been passed some 40 years ago. The racism is more subtle today than it was back then. That's why I liked Mark Millar's Ultimate X-Men compared to Grant's run. He knows how to approach the subject and he rejuvenated the characters in a way that made them more contemporary. And I wish he was writing X-Men now instead of Bru, Carey, and Fraction.

Oh and apology accepted.

Nick Kerklaan
07-10-2008, 06:02 PM
Yes...and I've read it to know that.

People and their strawman "I've never read it, but I know it sucks" argument have no leg to stand on.

So you admit you're a raving egomaniac who thinks what he likes is better than what anyone else likes.

Thanks, my work here is done.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 06:02 PM
That's not a straw man, but your statement is.
You are correct KD. :p

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 06:05 PM
I understand your frustration. I used to (and still do at some points) get the same way when people say or have said the X-Men comics circa Claremont's golden age where shit and that Grant Morrison was or is a god and made the X-Men a million times more interesting. But then after doing more research and sampling the run I saw that he did bring up some good points about the X-Men being out of touch with today's racial climate. While racism is still rampant. You don't see people running around with pitch forks or lynch parties with Civil Rights laws having been passed some 40 years ago. The racism is more subtle today than it was back then. That's why I liked Mark Millar's Ultimate X-Men compared to Grant's run. He knows how to approach the subject and he rejuvenated the characters in a way that made them more contemporary. And I wish he was writing X-Men now instead of Bru, Carey, and Fraction.

Oh and apology accepted.


Wow. Thats weird.

I love Claremon't initial run, AND Morrison's. They fit together.

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 06:06 PM
So you admit you're a raving egomaniac who thinks what he likes is better than what anyone else likes.

Thanks, my work here is done.

Nick, please. Everyone seems to be getting along, until you show. Yes it gets heated, but you send it over the top. I have the cancelled threads marked to prove that you are the cause.

I only get on people who bash stuff without reading.

You troll and look for things to start a flame war.

I am a bit over the top empassioned.

You are a jerk.

Nick Kerklaan
07-10-2008, 06:09 PM
I have the cancelled threads marked to prove that you are the cause.

Wait, what?

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 06:19 PM
I understand your frustration. I used to (and still do at some points) get the same way when people say or have said the X-Men comics circa Claremont's golden age where shit and that Grant Morrison was or is a god and made the X-Men a million times more interesting. But then after doing more research and sampling the run I saw that he did bring up some good points about the X-Men being out of touch with today's racial climate. While racism is still rampant. You don't see people running around with pitch forks or lynch parties with Civil Rights laws having been passed some 40 years ago. The racism is more subtle today than it was back then. That's why I liked Mark Millar's Ultimate X-Men compared to Grant's run. He knows how to approach the subject and he rejuvenated the characters in a way that made them more contemporary. And I wish he was writing X-Men now instead of Bru, Carey, and Fraction.

Oh and apology accepted.

I disagree bro. I think Millar tends to be heavy handed with themes, especially in UXM, not to mention he made the cast pretty unlikeable.

I wish Brian K Vaughn had written all of Ultimate X-men from the beginning.

Nick Kerklaan
07-10-2008, 06:21 PM
Nick, please. Everyone seems to be getting along, until you show. Yes it gets heated, but you send it over the top. I have the cancelled threads marked to prove that you are the cause.

I only get on people who bash stuff without reading.

You troll and look for things to start a flame war.

I am a bit over the top empassioned.

You are a jerk.

Remember that time I (more or less nicely) pointed out that your posts often came off as condescending, and you said you didn't mean to be, and I left it at that? I thought maybe that meant you'd stop making posts that amount to "Anyone who likes <New Avengers/Mark Millar/whatever> must be a fucking idiot!", but nope, you're still doing it, under the guise of threads you start that ostensibly ask people for their opinions about some topic but are really just excuses for you to bitch about New Avengers/Mark Millar/whatever again.

I'll stop being a "jerk" when you stop doing that, 'kay?

Buckyrig
07-10-2008, 06:21 PM
Nick, please. Everyone seems to be getting along, until you show. Yes it gets heated, but you send it over the top. I have the cancelled threads marked to prove that you are the cause.

I only get on people who bash stuff without reading.

You troll and look for things to start a flame war.

I am a bit over the top empassioned.

You are a jerk.

Nick!? :huh:

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 06:25 PM
Remember that time I (more or less nicely) pointed out that your posts often came off as condescending, and you said you didn't mean to be, and I left it at that? I thought maybe that meant you'd stop making posts that amount to "Anyone who likes <New Avengers/Mark Millar/whatever> must be a fucking idiot!", but nope, you're still doing it, under the guise of threads you start that ostensibly ask people for their opinions about some topic but are really just excuses for you to bitch about New Avengers/Mark Millar/whatever again.

I'll stop being a "jerk" when you stop doing that, 'kay?

Whatever. I'll keep having fun debating.

You can keep on trolling. Hell half the DW knows you're a troll.

kdmelrose
07-10-2008, 06:26 PM
Oh, good grief.

This is sooo Degrassi Junior High.

Buckyrig
07-10-2008, 06:26 PM
Whatever. I'll keep having fun debating.

You can keep on trolling. Hell half the DW knows you're a troll.

Nick? :huh:

Eugene Selassie
07-10-2008, 06:33 PM
Anyway, back to the discussion.

Ronin...I liked both Claremon'ts run and Morrison's run. They feel like they connect.

It was the 90's X stuff that left a bad taste in my mouth...

EXCEPT for Waid's buildup to Onslaught.

And Kelly/Seagle run, that shit was gold man.

Nick Kerklaan
07-10-2008, 06:34 PM
Whatever. I'll keep having fun debating.

You can keep on trolling. Hell half the DW knows you're a troll.

This is actually a good example of what "debating" with you is like. Instead of actually responding to anything I'm saying, you just spew out some "I'm the victim here!" bullshit.

For the record, I have tried to be reasonable with you.

I'm just going to start avoiding your threads now.

kdmelrose
07-10-2008, 06:36 PM
Good night, moon.
Good night, stars.
Good night, po-pos.
Good night, fiends.
Good night, hoppers.
Good night, thread.