The Office Final Fantasy 7 Addicts group

[ponyrl]

Hi, my name is Pony,

In 1997, I purchased my first RPG video game, not really being keen on the genre, but this game, Final Fantasy 7 looked cool. So I first rented it from blockbuster, playing it without a memory card because hey, what if I didn't like it, ya know?

I put the game into my PlayStation (only one existed at the time) and started to play........


I LEFT THAT DAMN GAME ON UNTIL THE NEXT DAY AND WENT OUT TO BUY A MEMORY CARD! *breathes* *breathes* *breathes*

..........
...........

Then I bought my own copy. That was the beginning of my 40+ hour life as Kojiki (Cloud Strife to some of you). I battle Corp thugs & travelled to the deepest of oceans floors. I ran across beaches & battled laviethans(sp) that till this day I've dared not go back and fight for fear of loosing (again) to their sheer power.

I rained meteors to the scorched earth, and ran with chocobos in heated races.

Why has all this come to me?

I was watching FF7 Advent, the scene wit Tifa and the little girl in the church spark'd memories of when Kojiki & Aerith (sp) wandered and played among the flowers, enjoying the quiet times before the darkness came.

40+ HOURS & I REMEMBER IT LIKE IT WAS MY OWN LIFE!
As the last battle was fought, and the credits rolled, I realized Kojiki was gone.

I miss that game. :cry:

Share your pain. (Yes, I am that guy) :slap:

[bluelinesmoke]

I played 7 for about 15 minutes at a friends house and really liked it. Just before I bought it I found out that 8 was being released so I went with the newer model. To this day I still like 8 better although I really liked 7 too and have liked every installment. I love 12 and the battle system that it set up, but there's a part of me that still longs for pre-rendered backgrounds and turn based battles. Final Fantasy is one of the main reasons I decided to get a PS3 instead of a 360.

[Biofungus]

Won't that suck when FF comes to the 360 :har:

[Moonrider]

The only FF I could get into are FFIX and FFXII, but FFXII got old on me so fast.

[Imboden]

And here I was expecting to find out that Dwight Shrute liked FF in addition to Second Life...

:man:

[Newt]

My obsession with FFVII, VIII, and IX has led me to shy away from video games ever since. I have never played anything on PS2, XBox, or any of the other newer systems, and I have dismantled my Playstation. Video games will steal your life away!

[jakebilbao]

My obsession with FFVII, VIII, and IX has led me to shy away from video games ever since. I have never played anything on PS2, XBox, or any of the other newer systems, and I have dismantled my Playstation. Video games will steal your life away!
OH MY GOSH! this is how i also felt! damn, lost a whole year of college because of it. it was a good thing my ps broke down, then i realized most of my high school buddies were way ahead of me. yup, video games does steal your life away. as for now, i just stick to MTGC. can't play it on your own, so the only time i could play it is on weekends when my girlfriend's younger brother comes home from high school boarding school! :)

[bluelinesmoke]

Won't that suck when FF comes to the 360 :har:

Nope, because the other reason I went with Sony is that the 360 seems to have a tendency to be a $400 paper weight. I'll give them time to fix the bugs and drop the price and eventually I'll get both, but for now I'm happy with my purchase.

[AthenaRose]

FF7 was bought to go with our very first PS, officially for my son, but actually I'm the only one who ever played it. Because it was my first RPG, I had no idea about levelling up, sidequests, secret characters, etc. I raced through (hating every random battle) got to Sephiroth, and got stomped on. I cried when Aeris died, too. It was such a shock.

What I loved about it was that it was my favourite fiction in a video game. I was completely amazed.

Then I got FF8, and fell in love. It is still my fave FF. I met my first on-line pal, joined my first on-line community, learned about walkthroughs, joined AIM, all because of that game. And played a fab game in the process.

I don't really like 9, although Vivi is my 2nd fave FF character. I do like 10, and 10-2 - the graphics are just beautiful. I also like 12, and Balthier is now officially my fave FF character of all time. I also have 6, though the graphics put me off.

I am currently re-playing 7 for the umpteenth time. I've had it 10 years, and still haven't defeated Sephiroth. I'm really going for it, this time. The thing is, unlike most FF final bosses, he's REALLY tough!

I will get a PS3, at some point, just so I can play FF13!

[jakebilbao]

FF7 was bought to go with our very first PS, officially for my son, but actually I'm the only one who ever played it. Because it was my first RPG, I had no idea about levelling up, sidequests, secret characters, etc. I raced through (hating every random battle) got to Sephiroth, and got stomped on. I cried when Aeris died, too. It was such a shock.

What I loved about it was that it was my favourite fiction in a video game. I was completely amazed.

Then I got FF8, and fell in love. It is still my fave FF. I met my first on-line pal, joined my first on-line community, learned about walkthroughs, joined AIM, all because of that game. And played a fab game in the process.

I don't really like 9, although Vivi is my 2nd fave FF character. I do like 10, and 10-2 - the graphics are just beautiful. I also like 12, and Balthier is now
officially my fave FF character of all time. I also have 6, though the graphics put me off.

I am currently re-playing 7 for the umpteenth time. I've had it 10 years, and still haven't defeated Sephiroth. I'm really going for it, this time. The thing is, unlike most FF final bosses, he's REALLY tough!

I will get a PS3, at some point, just so I can play FF13!

wow! not only are you one hot grandma, you're cool as well! :w00t:

[Lovecraft13]

FF7 was just another game in the series to me. My first Final Fantasy was Final Fantasy, and FFIII (US) is still the best in the series. I was watching a friend play some of FF7 the other day, and it looks like a Lego FF game.

[AthenaRose]

wow! not only are you one hot grandma, you're cool as well! :w00t:

*blushes*

[Nitecrawlah2]

FF7 was just another game in the series to me. My first Final Fantasy was Final Fantasy, and FFIII (US) is still the best in the series. I was watching a friend play some of FF7 the other day, and it looks like a Lego FF game.
My first experience was also the first 2 FF games. I managed to play the third part as well, which I think was only available in Japan, on a boot disc for my DC. FF7 is my favorite though, and a game that took over my life for a few months while playing it :laugh: . This thread is giving me an itch I haven't scratched in years - Maybe I'll blow the dust off of the disc and give it a go all over again.

[ponyrl]

You know how long it took me to power up? :huh:

I sat on that ninja's island, running all over the place for weeks powering up my materia and summoning.

Hell, I STILL didn't raise a black chocobo to get the very last summoning materia.

$10,000 Gil for the first person to name the materia that is gained from having the Black chocobo? knights of the round <-- :har:

[Troy Wall]

FFX is the only FF I've ever played, and I liked it well enough. Actually, I would have loved it if not for the repetitive random battles. Those things got fucking boring, dude. Is it still like that with the newer ones?

[Moonrider]

FFXII has no random battles.

[Troy Wall]

Damn, that's cool.

[xstephon]

[QUOTE=Biofungus]Won't that suck when FF comes to the 360 :har:[/QUOT that would be the day

[HaphazardJoy]

Then I got FF8, and fell in love. It is still my fave FF. I met my first on-line pal, joined my first on-line community, learned about walkthroughs, joined AIM, all because of that game. And played a fab game in the process.

High Five lady! FF7 is a very good game, but FF8 remains my favorite to this day... hell, FF6-8 are just the best period. FF8 is so much more intricate than most of the other games, it's nice, the draw and junction system, the drawing spells out of items and breaking down items for other items, and all of the little secrets. The scene with Squall and Rinoa in the Ragnarok even made me misty at the time.

[marctheokay]

You know how long it took me to power up? :huh:

I sat on that ninja's island, running all over the place for weeks powering up my materia and summoning.

Hell, I STILL didn't raise a black chocobo to get the very last summoning materia.

$10,000 Gil for the first person to name the materia that is gained from having the Black chocobo? knights of the round <-- :har:


Wasn't it the Gold Chocobo?
I think you needed it to get to an island to get some materia-was that just Knights of the Round?
I know there was Unlimited Summon, Unlimited Magic...um, what else?
What WERE the ultimate materia?
I got almost everything except for Alexander.
That was kind of confusing for me when I was younger.

[AthenaRose]

High Five lady! FF7 is a very good game, but FF8 remains my favorite to this day... hell, FF6-8 are just the best period. FF8 is so much more intricate than most of the other games, it's nice, the draw and junction system, the drawing spells out of items and breaking down items for other items, and all of the little secrets. The scene with Squall and Rinoa in the Ragnarok even made me misty at the time.

It's the story and characters that do it for me. The lack of backstory is a fic-writer's dream! I've written 11 fanfics (check the link in my sig), all on that game, though Fran and Balthier want me to write something for them...

Random battles are a pain, but so necessary for levelling up. The games usually give you an extra incentive, like capturing animals for the monster arena in 10. 12 may not have random battles, but levelling up is so important! There's no way to complete the hunts unless you're at a decent level.

I'm going for the ultimate weapons and limit breaks in 7, this time round, though I think I've missed Tifa's LB :( I need to level Yuffie up a little more so that she can beat her daddy :D

[Moonrider]

High Five lady! FF7 is a very good game, but FF8 remains my favorite to this day... hell, FF6-8 are just the best period. FF8 is so much more intricate than most of the other games, it's nice, the draw and junction system, the drawing spells out of items and breaking down items for other items, and all of the little secrets. The scene with Squall and Rinoa in the Ragnarok even made me misty at the time.

Most die-hard FF fans I know loathed FFVIII. It's an Asian thing I guess.

[Lovecraft13]

Damn, that's cool.

Yeah, but the game's combat system was completely overhauled for the worse. But you may like the change of pace. I personally thought the tactics involved in FFX's combat system was the best.

[ponyrl]

Wasn't it the Gold Chocobo?
I think you needed it to get to an island to get some materia-was that just Knights of the Round?
I know there was Unlimited Summon, Unlimited Magic...um, what else?
What WERE the ultimate materia?
I got almost everything except for Alexander.
That was kind of confusing for me when I was younger.
black & ordinary I think but you win $10,000 Gil.

Go spend it at the golden saucer, betting on chocobo races. :D

(Man, gonna have to start playing again :( )

Alexander was easy to get (though it escapes me). Knights is a bitch! :cry:

[Mwynn]

You have to fight the snow witch to get Alexander. You dip your hands in the hot springs, then go find her.

The battle system in FF12 is the best thing to happen to these games. I got sick of take three steps and a fight breaks out.

Being able to see the enemies allows you to use strategy to plan an attack.

[HaphazardJoy]

Most die-hard FF fans I know loathed FFVIII. It's an Asian thing I guess.

Here and I thought Asians had better tastes in RPGs than over here in the US of A. I'm always thrilled at the more complicated and difficult RPGs that get into our markets. Mmmmm Shin Megami Tensei.

[Mwynn]

You know how long it took me to power up? :huh:

I sat on that ninja's island, running all over the place for weeks powering up my materia and summoning.

Hell, I STILL didn't raise a black chocobo to get the very last summoning materia.

$10,000 Gil for the first person to name the materia that is gained from having the Black chocobo? knights of the round <-- :har:
The best place to level up is in that sunken sub, the most powerful enemies are there.

[Jon Dahl]

I was 17 when I played Final Fantasy VII. I beat it in 52 hours the first time I played it.

Then I played it with my GameShark connected and beat it in 20 hours. When you have 9,999 of everything, and unlimited money, the game is really easy. :laugh:

[ponyrl]

The best place to level up is in that sunken sub, the most powerful enemies are there.
That sub was kicking my ass, man! :cry: :cry:

[Newt]

If you equip as many characters as possible with Ribbon or with the Hades-Elemental materia combo..NOOOO!!!!! NOT AGAIN!!!!!

[AthenaRose]

I was 17 when I played Final Fantasy VII. I beat it in 52 hours the first time I played it.

Then I played it with my GameShark connected and beat it in 20 hours. When you have 9,999 of everything, and unlimited money, the game is really easy. :laugh:

Cheat :sure:

[N Hammer]

I, personaly, would like to have VII's Materia system, with XII's graphics and combat system.

[Moonrider]

Here and I thought Asians had better tastes in RPGs than over here in the US of A. I'm always thrilled at the more complicated and difficult RPGs that get into our markets. Mmmmm Shin Megami Tensei.

I don't really know about taste since I only play and finish a limited number of RPG titles over the years (Chrono Cross, Suikoden 1 & 2) but it seems that FF fans round here think that the storyline in FF8 is too cheesy with an unsymphathetic and whiny lead character. Don't know about the battle system, but I had more fun playing FFIX (which I will finish someday whenever by the way. It's a promise! :) ).

FFX-2 Sucked seamonkey balls.

[Moonrider]

I, personaly, would like to have VII's Materia system, with XII's graphics and combat system.

FFXII International Zodiac Job System is probably the closest you can get to that. Strangely, 'International' means for Japan only.

[compton]

VII was the game that got me to play RPG's VIII kept me there. XI almost turned me off of them. I just haven't had the time to play the huge RPG's in years so I couldn't really get as invested as I was.

[HaphazardJoy]

I don't really know about taste since I only play and finish a limited number of RPG titles over the years (Chrono Cross, Suikoden 1 & 2) but it seems that FF fans round here think that the storyline in FF8 is too cheesy with an unsymphathetic and whiny lead character. Don't know about the battle system, but I had more fun playing FFIX (which I will finish someday whenever by the way. It's a promise! :) ).

FFX-2 Sucked seamonkey balls.


Squall was definitely whiny, and the world seemed to only exist for the characters to exist in, but the gameplay made up for that, and the weird time bending story was fun. FF9 wasn't very original, but a very fun experience... although one of those weird wtf endings. I just think Final Fantasy continues to get more and more watered down, and they're so easy for RPG players. They often have some difficult post game stuff, but then that's often stuff that just requires a lot of grinding to accomplish. If you can get your hands on some of the Megami Tensei stuff, do it. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne is one of the hardest and fun games I've ever played.

[AthenaRose]

Oh, I can't bear Squall - at least at the beginning of the game. He's no hero, he's just some whiney 2-D teenager who wants to be mean and moody, and interesting. He's only the hero of the game because he happens to be in the right place at the right time. Seifer, on the other hand, actually believes in something. OK, he chooses the wrong side, but that's because he has to be in opposition to Squall.

9 would be much better if the story was about Vivi. He's by far the most interesting character in the game.

10's story is much more linear than the others, but I love Yuna's sense of duty.

10-2 is just a bit of fluff, and seen in that light it's an OK game. And it has some great moments - Yuna's concert, and a certain death scene, spring to mind.

[Nitecrawlah2]

Being able to see the enemies allows you to use strategy to plan an attack.
I may be wrong, but I think Grandia 2 was one of the first RPGs to implement that type of battle system. It still holds up as one of the best battle systems I've ever played in an RPG game.

Newt, don't do it!!! Put the three discs down now!

[Mwynn]

I may be wrong, but I think Grandia 2 was one of the first RPGs to implement that type of battle system. It still holds up as one of the best battle systems I've ever played in an RPG game.

Newt, don't do it!!! Put the three discs down now!
Not sure which game started it, yet the walking into battles thing is old.

[Moonrider]

Random battles are not that much of a problem until we start running out of potions. No random battles can also feel stupid when no matter how you want to avoid them they come after you anyway. Persona 3 for example, it's just a matter of who hit who first. Fortunately, hunting is the whole point of going into Tartarus.

About storylines, FFXII has a great story up until we finally realize that Vaan practically did nothing to advance the plot whatsoever. He's not so much a whiner than he is a pretty boy, but man...fuck a princess or something, come on!

[Grant Perkins]

I've recently battled through 1, 2, 4, 7, 10 and 12 (3 I started on an emulator and was underwhelmed with after playing 12 and 10-2 sucked harder than my ex - And she could put a dyson to shame...not that I ever used a dyson to...anyway) and have just upgraded to the 360.

Any word on whether there's a FF heading to that platform? I know 11 is on it, but I'm not enthralled with online subscription fees.

[Moonrider]

I used a dyson once. To suck seamonkey balls.

[AthenaRose]

and 10-2 sucked harder than my ex

Is it a girl thing? I really don't see the problem with 10-2. Apart from the girls are waaay too skinny and don't wear enough clothing. But Paine comes out as a really interesting character. And tell me you don't get a tear in your eye when Lenne and Shuyin get shot in the flashback!

[Grant Perkins]

[QUOTE=AthenaRose]Is it a girl thing? [QUOTE]

Yes, my ex was a girl.




Still is I believe...

[Moonrider]

X-2 doesn't even feel like a real RPG. It's just there for the fans and milk some more money. I have zero interest in that game, despite the nice opening song (which by the way sound waaaaay better in the Japanese version).

FF Advent Children movie was awesome but all the other FFVII spinoff games that comes along with it are just too much.

[Biofungus]

I didn't mind X-2. I thought the battle system was unique (and liked that everybody had a different "version" of each battle outfit).

[Shin_Jinlaw]

WOW!! I think I can remember when was the first time I'd played FFVII.

I remember it was 1999, and I received a copy of Xenogears for christmas, which I cherish to this day (and possibly one of my all time favorite RPGs ever). My little brother was playing FFVII, and I was playing Xenogears, and I told him that "this game is better than FFVII". And he was like "Oh really? You haven't even played this game before. How could you say something like that?" I was like "Look at these visuals", and he showed me a summon sequence with Bahumut. I was like "whoa", and opted to have an open mind with this game. Within minutes I wanted to check this game out for myself, and before I knew it, I was completely hooked. The graphics, at that time, was the biggest draw for me, but the game play won me over BIG TIME!! I was combining materias, and was trying to even beat the american exclusive Weapons. Man, even me, my sister, and my brother was crying when Aeris died in that game, which we NEVER done anything like that in our gaming years. I've always said "if something can bring a tear to my eye, then rest be sured that I will pick it up". And to this day, FFVII will always be on my top 2 favorite RPGs of all time.

[ponyrl]

..........& Kojiki lives again. :( just started playing again.

I'm leaving Kalm now........

oh god, someone save me!

[Nitecrawlah2]

FF Advent Children movie was awesome but all the other FFVII spinoff games that comes along with it are just too much.
A true sequel would have been great.

[Newt]

I found Advent Children disappointing, but I seem to be alone in this assessment.

[AthenaRose]

I found Advent Children disappointing, but I seem to be alone in this assessment.

Depends what you mean by 'disappointing'. Visually, it is beautiful - even exquisite would not over state it, for me. The textures, the details, even the battles (though some of them go on far too long) amaze me every time I watch it.

Story-wise, it isn't just disappointing, it's non-existant. There is none of the complexity I expect from FF, no real empathy with any of the characters - it just doesn't do very much for me.

A friend of mine described the effect of AC on the FF7 world as being like turning the Turin shroud into toilet paper. I wouldn't go that far. I take it for what it is - eye candy. If you don't expect any more from it, you can't be too disappointed.

If you find the graphics disappointing, then I don't know what to say...

[Newt]

The story was pitiful, especially considering that they had the rather rich FFVII mythos to draw from. The writers seemed more interesting in dropping easter eggs for fans then in producing a coherent story. Plus the dialogue was terrible.

The graphics were inconsistent; the main characters were very well treated, but many of the 'extras' walking around were relatively clunky and awkward. I was also a little put off by the sort of weightless quality the characters had during the battle scenes, like when a character would drop hundreds of feet through the air and land lightly on a girder as though he'd only hopped down a couple of feet, with no apparent inertia and no effect on the girder. The motorcycles also seemed to move by telekinesis rather than by any input from the wheels. I'm fine with the characters being super-strong and agile and whatnot, but they should still be affected by physics in some way.

Oh well. :rolleyes:

[Shin_Jinlaw]

Depends what you mean by 'disappointing'. Visually, it is beautiful - even exquisite would not over state it, for me. The textures, the details, even the battles (though some of them go on far too long) amaze me every time I watch it.

Story-wise, it isn't just disappointing, it's non-existant. There is none of the complexity I expect from FF, no real empathy with any of the characters - it just doesn't do very much for me.

A friend of mine described the effect of AC on the FF7 world as being like turning the Turin shroud into toilet paper. I wouldn't go that far. I take it for what it is - eye candy. If you don't expect any more from it, you can't be too disappointed.

If you find the graphics disappointing, then I don't know what to say...

I don't know about you, or Newt, but I absolutely love this movie. The story, while not deep, was pretty good to fulfill the FFVII enthusiast. As a storyteller, it's not that bad at all.

The CG was magical (until I saw the previews of Beowulf). Beautiful, enriching details, and lush backgrounds was enough for me.

IMO, I give this movie a 11 out of 10. Realistically, this movie is maybe like an 7.5-8.0

[Moonrider]

The story was pitiful, especially considering that they had the rather rich FFVII mythos to draw from. The writers seemed more interesting in dropping easter eggs for fans then in producing a coherent story. Plus the dialogue was terrible.

The graphics were inconsistent; the main characters were very well treated, but many of the 'extras' walking around were relatively clunky and awkward. I was also a little put off by the sort of weightless quality the characters had during the battle scenes, like when a character would drop hundreds of feet through the air and land lightly on a girder as though he'd only hopped down a couple of feet, with no apparent inertia and no effect on the girder. The motorcycles also seemed to move by telekinesis rather than by any input from the wheels. I'm fine with the characters being super-strong and agile and whatnot, but they should still be affected by physics in some way.

Oh well. :rolleyes:

For the seemingly non-existent gravity and physics, well...that is exactly why it's called Final Fantasy :). It's an anime, and it follows the anime rules and stereotypes instead of the Hollywood standards in FF Spirit Within. I'd say it's actually the biggest selling point of the movie considering how awful the latter was. Advent Children was not even trying to be something else that it's not by implementing 'reality' or 'deep emotional stories' into it which are often result in intricate yet highly confusing plot like Casshern. FF Advent Children is just a closing chapter of what the heroes has been through, a requiem for Aerith and closure for Cloud. There's plenty of good action, nice dramatic moments such as Aerith and Cloud's scene over a white background, all in a considerably short duration. It's good for what it was. Can't say it could have been better, but it's as good as any.

[Biofungus]

The story was pitiful, especially considering that they had the rather rich FFVII mythos to draw from. The writers seemed more interesting in dropping easter eggs for fans then in producing a coherent story. Plus the dialogue was terrible.

The graphics were inconsistent; the main characters were very well treated, but many of the 'extras' walking around were relatively clunky and awkward. I was also a little put off by the sort of weightless quality the characters had during the battle scenes, like when a character would drop hundreds of feet through the air and land lightly on a girder as though he'd only hopped down a couple of feet, with no apparent inertia and no effect on the girder. The motorcycles also seemed to move by telekinesis rather than by any input from the wheels. I'm fine with the characters being super-strong and agile and whatnot, but they should still be affected by physics in some way.

Oh well. :rolleyes:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/Biofungus/nerd.gif

Just saying is all :whistlin:

[ponyrl]

I like Spirits within. :(

[Biofungus]

I like Spirits within. :(
It wasn't bad, it just wasn't a Final Fantasy movie.

[Moonrider]

I like Spirits within. :(

You are alone in your madness.

:p

[Newt]

For the seemingly non-existent gravity and physics, well...that is exactly why it's called Final Fantasy :). It's an anime, and it follows the anime rules and stereotypes instead of the Hollywood standards in FF Spirit Within. I'd say it's actually the biggest selling point of the movie considering how awful the latter was. Advent Children was not even trying to be something else that it's not by implementing 'reality' or 'deep emotional stories' into it which are often result in intricate yet highly confusing plot like Casshern. FF Advent Children is just a closing chapter of what the heroes has been through, a requiem for Aerith and closure for Cloud. There's plenty of good action, nice dramatic moments such as Aerith and Cloud's scene over a white background, all in a considerably short duration. It's good for what it was. Can't say it could have been better, but it's as good as any.

Maybe it's just because I'm not a big anime fan, I don't know. It just spoiled the effect of all those beautiful textures and animations to have the characters floating through everything.

[Nitecrawlah2]

I like Spirits within. :(
I did too!

[Mwynn]

The FF7 storyline has way to many roads to contain it in one anime. Possibly they should have done a series, yet I guess that is what all the spinoff games are for.

[Mwynn]

Battle Medley (http://boomp3.com/m/842bf02b8039)

[AthenaRose]

The FF7 storyline has way to many roads to contain it in one anime. Possibly they should have done a series, yet I guess that is what all the spinoff games are for.

They could still have done more with it. There is next to no complexity, at all, not even a sub-plot - at least as far as I remember. It's a while since I watched it.


OK, I'm a geek, it's official. Not that I think that's a bad thing, but I have absolutely no way of denying it, any more. Listening to those battle tunes actually transported me into battles in each of the FF worlds - I could even visualise the enemies, and my current team of playable characters :p

[Mwynn]

I actually think that Advent Children had to purposes.

1. Remove the bad taste left by Spirits Within.
2. To gauge if people wanted more of FF7.

Has everyone seen Last Order?

[Biofungus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they add the entire Bahamut segment to the movie after they realized the movie was too short overall?

[Mwynn]

I had not heard that one.

[Biofungus]

I know early on, they delayed the release because the movie was originally less than an hour. They delayed it to add more material to it to make it longer.

[Moonrider]

I actually think that Advent Children had to purposes.

1. Remove the bad taste left by Spirits Within.
2. To gauge if people wanted more of FF7.

Has everyone seen Last Order?

I've seen it. I think it was less than 30 minutes long or it feels like it. The story covers what happened before the game and how Cloud got amnesia. He's kinda lame in this one, spent most of his time in the movie as a drooling vegetable.

[ponyrl]

But Cloud was actually Zack's persona in the game, right? :huh:

That's why Cloud was badass. It was Zack who was cool. Cloud was a lousy grunt.

Well, that's how it read to me from the game. :huh:

[AthenaRose]

Cloud in the game was a failed Sephiroth clone that was given Zack's & Cloud's memories - I think. His memories of being a child in Nibelheim with Tifa are real, 'cos Tifa remembers that. But his memories of returning there and being inside the reactor with Sephiroth are actually Zack's, as revealed by the photograph. Cloud (the real one) did go into the reactor after Tifa was attacked by Sephiroth.

I've played that game so many times, and some of it still doesn't make any kind of sense :blink:

[Mwynn]

Cloud in the game was a failed Sephiroth clone that was given Zack's & Cloud's memories - I think. His memories of being a child in Nibelheim with Tifa are real, 'cos Tifa remembers that. But his memories of returning there and being inside the reactor with Sephiroth are actually Zack's, as revealed by the photograph. Cloud (the real one) did go into the reactor after Tifa was attacked by Sephiroth.

I've played that game so many times, and some of it still doesn't make any kind of sense :blink:
You are somewhat right. Both Zack and Cloud were infused with Mako, yet were considered failures. Cloud was brainwashed after the incident in Nibelhem, he was confused. He became both Cloud and Zack after that.

[AthenaRose]

You are somewhat right. Both Zack and Cloud were infused with Mako, yet were considered failures. Cloud was brainwashed after the incident in Nibelhem, he was confused. He became both Cloud and Zack after that.

So, Zack is dead, right? He left his parents' house in Gongaga, went to Midgar and met Aeris, joined SOLDIER and made it to first class. If he's in SOLDIER, then he's been infused with Mako already, hasn't he? Then Sephiroth, Zack and Cloud go to Nibelheim, and Sephi loses it. Zack and Cloud end up in the tanks in the basement of the Shinra Mansion, and it's at that point that they are given the Jenova cells and extra Mako treatment and Cloud takes on some of Zack's memories - right? Or is it just the overall trauma that upsets Cloud's mind to the point that he confuses himself with Zack? Anyway, Cloud escapes and joins Avalanche, but Zack doesn't make it.

[Moonrider]

So, Zack is dead, right? He left his parents' house in Gongaga, went to Midgar and met Aeris, joined SOLDIER and made it to first class. If he's in SOLDIER, then he's been infused with Mako already, hasn't he? Then Sephiroth, Zack and Cloud go to Nibelheim, and Sephi loses it. Zack and Cloud end up in the tanks in the basement of the Shinra Mansion, and it's at that point that they are given the Jenova cells and extra Mako treatment and Cloud takes on some of Zack's memories - right? Or is it just the overall trauma that upsets Cloud's mind to the point that he confuses himself with Zack? Anyway, Cloud escapes and joins Avalanche, but Zack doesn't make it.

Zack died in the last scene of Last Order and never made it to the city. They even showed his spirit with Aerith in the last scene of Advent Children. The answer to everything you asked are there in Last Order. From what I remember (I skipped a lot of the scenes) Zack and Cloud encountered Sepiroth in the tanks, Cloud got injured (stabbed I think) and Zack took his friend outta there. Cloud in the game is not a clone, he is the very same Cloud that Tifa knew but his memories were swisscheesed by the Jehova experiments and his injuries from Sephiroth.

[Mwynn]

With Last Order and Crisis Core the story between Zack and Cloud has been greatly expanded. When Zack was dragging Cloud around, Cloud had Mako poisoning.

[AthenaRose]

OK, stupid question time - what are 'last order' and 'crisis core'? Are they games or films? And are they available in the UK?

I've just checked e-bay. I couldn't find 'last order', but 'crisis core' is a PSP game and I don't have a PSP.

[Mwynn]

Last Order is an anime that came with the Japanese version of Advent Children.
It is on youtube.

Crisis Core is a game on the psp the main character is Zack.

End of Crisis core (http://youtube.com/watch?v=RK8mmrRl7IQ)

[Mwynn]

Sorry here is the subbed version.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EvzSBbQ9IyM

[AthenaRose]

I'll check that out - thanks!

[ponyrl]

but tifa knew zack? :huh:

Remember when they went to zack's home town. The way she reacted to zack's parents. (i just played that out in the game)

[Mwynn]

Yeah she meet him in Nibelheim before Sephiroth went looney.

[Mwynn]

but tifa knew zack? :huh:

Remember when they went to zack's home town. The way she reacted to zack's parents. (i just played that out in the game)
Did you have both Aeris and Tifa with you at the time?

[AthenaRose]

I have just beat Godo into dust! Hooray for T/S Bombs and Marlboro Tentacles :D

[ponyrl]

"Did you have both Aeris and Tifa with you at the time"

no. :huh:

[Mwynn]

The reaction is the same from both. Zack's parents ask if they are his girlfriend. They get pissed and walk out.

[ponyrl]

Hm..........that's weird. And shoddy programming. ;)

[Mwynn]

Not really I think it was meant to show how delusional the people in that town were. All they could talk about was the Mako Factory. Zack has been missing for 10 years. Do you think they went looking for him? I doubt it.

[Biofungus]

Sorry here is the subbed version.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EvzSBbQ9IyM
You know, that ending makes Cloud seem less a victim of his circumstances, and more of a "creepy guy"...

[Mwynn]

How did it make him look creepy?

[Moonrider]

Maybe considering he just walked out of there and not bury his buddy first.

[Biofungus]

How did it make him look creepy?
Because before, he seemed to have legit problems (due to mako exposure and problematic cloning), so one could sympathize with him emulating Zack. In this, it seems like he merely became psychotically obsessed with "becoming" Zack.

[Mwynn]

Because before, he seemed to have legit problems (due to mako exposure and problematic cloning), so one could sympathize with him emulating Zack. In this, it seems like he merely became psychotically obsessed with "becoming" Zack.
I think he just snapped.

[Biofungus]

Still makes him seem creepy.

[AthenaRose]

I'm nearly at the end of Disc 1... I don't want to finish it, and relive the trauma :cry:

[ponyrl]

I'm nearly at the end of Disc 1... I don't want to finish it, and relive the trauma :cry:
Already did. :(

Strange thing.

When I went on the date at the golden saucer, it was with Tifa, not aerith? :huh:

Tifa came to my room.

[Biofungus]

Already did. :(

Strange thing.

When I went on the date at the golden saucer, it was with Tifa, not aerith? :huh:

Tifa came to my room.
Man-whore.

[Moonrider]

Still makes him seem creepy.

In Japan, creepy makes you sexy.

[Mwynn]

Already did. :(

Strange thing.

When I went on the date at the golden saucer, it was with Tifa, not aerith? :huh:

Tifa came to my room.

That changes depending on who you have in your group, and who you heal first. If you ignore the girls you can go out with Barret.

[Mwynn]

In case you have not seen this Zack and Cloud escape from FF7.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oSyiRFbWRNM

[AthenaRose]

That changes depending on who you have in your group, and who you heal first. If you ignore the girls you can go out with Barret.

I've been out with all of them, at one time or another, I think. Got Aeris, this time, but then I wasn't really trying for anyone else, and she had been in my team for most of the disc. I bet the other dates are on YouTube...

*wanders off to find out*

Yup, here we go!

First up is Barrett (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D30JDkDHWZk)

Next is Yuffie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1MO-R5mPC0)

... Yuffie and Vincent?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL9WMvUgIPQ) It's fake, but it's fun!

And now... Sephiroth and Cloud (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL9WMvUgIPQ) :confused:

Next... Sephiroth and Aeris (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrvTQDsMOn0) :rolleyes:

And finally... the girls! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpI23AldgGY)

Oh, except for... Cid and Shera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4aPvJmwv3o) Awww!

There are some other ones that look fun (Hojo's guide to scoring hot chicks, anyone?) but I can't be bothered watching them, now.

[AthenaRose]

I really killed the conversation, eh?

[Newt]

I only watched the Cid and Shera clip, and not all of that. Whoever made it has quite a tea fixation; every other line is about tea.

[AthenaRose]

Have you played the game? It's Cid who has the tea fixation :D

[ponyrl]

Just hit disc 2 & stopped.

I HATE THE SNOW MOUNTAIN! :man:

[Newt]

As I recall (it's been a couple of years) Cid has, I dunno, two or three lines about tea, all to the effect of "Shera! Why isn't the damn tea ready!" Nothing about fancy-schmancy kinds of tea, and carrying a tea-cup with him, etc.

I know, it's just a silly clip thing, but I guess it was too silly for me.

[Mwynn]

http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs20/300W/f/2007/231/6/2/Tea_Time_by_Rennard.jpg

[Newt]

Oh great. Now I have to play the whole damn game again to see if I can find the great Cid-tea connection. :man:

[Mwynn]

Cid Highwind: Sit your ass down in that chair and drink your goddamn TEA!

[AthenaRose]

It's on Disc 1, Newt, so it shouldn't be too hard to find ;) Love that pic, Mwynn!

I hate the bloody mountain, too, except for the snowboarding. I'm completely crap at it, but it's just fun :D

Tomorrow, I'm going to be brave and finish Disc 1 :cry:

[Newt]

I just watched Spirits Within. It was way better than Advent Children. However, it had a terrible assortment of DVD extras; basically just a commentary track and some pictures of the heroine in a bikini. No concept sketches, no behind-the-scenes, no nothing! :man:

[Biofungus]

As a movie, Spirits Within is better. But it's not a "Final Fantasy" epic in the truest sense.

[ponyrl]

I'm on disc 2. Got passed the snow (missing a few things but f-it), got the huge materia, found cloud (kojiki) I beat the hell out of a weapon, got cloud (kojiki) back, and am now flying in the HighWind towards the undersea base. :)

Anyone ever beat all the weapons? :huh: if so, how?

[Biofungus]

Guh? There's TONS of tips online for beating the weapons.

[ponyrl]

Bio.......why won't you share? :( This is a sharing place, Bio. Share with the group. How did you defeat Weapon? :(


:laugh:

[Newt]

Same way you defeat any enemy- kick 'em in the nads when they're not looking, then, while they're doubled over in pain, whack'em at the base of the skull with a crescent wrench. Works every time!

[sgm]

I'm on disc 2. Got passed the snow (missing a few things but f-it), got the huge materia, found cloud (kojiki) I beat the hell out of a weapon, got cloud (kojiki) back, and am now flying in the HighWind towards the undersea base. :)

Anyone ever beat all the weapons? :huh: if so, how?

Try this:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197341/2392

It's been so long time, but I'm pretty sure this is the method I used.

[Biofungus]

Bio.......why won't you share? :( This is a sharing place, Bio. Share with the group. How did you defeat Weapon? :(


:laugh:
Same way you defeat any enemy- kick 'em in the nads when they're not looking, then, while they're doubled over in pain, whack'em at the base of the skull with a crescent wrench. Works every time!

:har:

[AthenaRose]

Well, I braved the end of Disc 1. I still find the scene where Cloud lays Aeris to rest very moving - and beautifully done, within the constraints of the graphics in that game. Imagine it with FF12-style graphics!

I ran around the snow fields for a while levelling up - going to head into the village next time I play for backstory on Gast and Almira (that is the name of Aeris' mother, isn't it?).

[Biofungus]

What operating system are you runninng, Rose?

[AthenaRose]

PS2 :D

[ponyrl]

I'M FIGHTING A WEAPON!! :confused:


(shit)

[Newt]

Remember your training, Ponyrl! Kick to the nads, wrench to the head.

[AthenaRose]

I may attempt the Weapons, this time...

[ponyrl]

Got stomped by emerald twice! :(

where'sthe best place to earn high AP to level up my materia? I could search, but I'm feeling in a sharing mode. :)

[Mwynn]

Got stomped by emerald twice! :(

where'sthe best place to earn high AP to level up my materia? I could search, but I'm feeling in a sharing mode. :)
The Sunken plane is the best place to level up.

[Newt]

If the sunken plane is still kicking your ass, try the beaches near Mideel. The sand worms take a lot of damage before they go down, but they do little harm in return. If you wander away from the beaches, there are creatures you can steal good stuff from; one kind has X-potions, and another kind also has something cool but I don't remember what.

It's really sad that I remember any of that; I haven't played the game in years and it's still taking up space in my brain.

[AthenaRose]

FF games are like that. That's what makes them so good :)

I'm about to start scaling the mountain - anyone got a spare rope?

[ponyrl]

Sorry love, I've been spending me time in the drink. That sub is helping me master my break limits & materia. Been there for a few weeks now. I want to master Twice Cut into 4 cut mainly.

I'm on disc 2 still. :)

[Shin_Jinlaw]

You people are sad!! Final Fantasy VII wasn't all that.........


That game is all that, and THEN SOME!!!

Man! I haven't opened this game up since 1999. I'll might have to give this game a run again. I still want to level up my characters, and get my Materia leveled up as well. That, and I want to destroy those freaking Weapons in that game.

[AthenaRose]

I'm doing really well with master materia and limit breaks. I've finally worked out how the LBs work! Not bad after 10 years, eh? Yuffie has her L4 LB, Cloud, Vincent & Cid are all at L3, Tifa & Barrett are still at L2, and Cait Sith is still just on Dice.

Cloud and Tifa are in Mideel, and the rest of the crew are about to get the Huge Materia from Fort Condor. I haven't had much trouble with levelling up, which is always the part I hate most in any game. I just keep thinking about the moment when I smash Sephiroth into dust *evil laugh*

[ponyrl]

I'm on the third Disc, went back to golden saucer to get W-Materia, got Omni-slash and (Kojiki)Cloud's final weapon Ragnarok. My plan, I may go after Sephiroth, but my goal is....................... WEAPON!

Those creatures, Ruby & Emerald, are going DOWN!

:man:

[AthenaRose]

Well, Cloud is now a 'whole' person, again, and the whole gang are on the submarine preparing to capture the 3rd lump of Huge Materia.

I don't think I'm going to bother with the Weapons on this playthrough. I'm just going after Sephy :D

[ponyrl]

Got that Under water materia and am going for materia you get from battle square (not Slash). WEAPON BETTA WATCH ITS BACK GODDAMIT!

[AthenaRose]

I've done a bit of levelling in the Gelinka and got RedXIII up to his final limit break. The monsters down there are hard, even when your whole team is on higher levels than them. I'm going to dig up the Midgar Key next, and then it's back to Midgar :D

[PC812]

I first played this game when I was fourteen and in the past ten years, my enjoyment has not decreased a single bit. I dug the hell out of Advent Children and I liked the new designs for the characters. Plus, Reno and Rude are always entertaining.

There's a new edition of Advent Children that's been released -- it's pricy, but worth the money and it comes with a small book with some stories about some of the characters. And it also has the Last Order film on it (which we got screwed out of in the original release).

Apparently, the FF7 remake for PS3 seems to be less of a rumor. If it is true, that'd be great and it'd be enough to get me to buy a PS3. I think Sony is behind the push for it, too -- they know an FF7 remake will really bump up PS3 sales.

FF8 I didn't enjoy that much. The first two discs were good, but after that it all fell apart. Never played 9, 10 started to bore me, I don't consider 11 a true Final Fantasy game, and I've started 12. Good so far. Tactics had a great story, too. I know everyone says 6 is the best, and it is an extremely awesome game, but 7 is and will always remain my favorite. Hell, it's been the inspiration for a fantasy comic I'm developing. And FF7 is what really got me into writing pretty much non-stop. The first novel I wrote was a very horrible, 300-page FF7 fanfic. Started it when I was 15, finished when I was 16.

[ponyrl]

I BEAT EMERALD!!

YEAH BITCH, WHAT!

:man:

Ruby's next. :man:

[AthenaRose]

Well done! I'm on Disc 3, levelling up on the Gelnika before I go in and beat Sephy to a pulp.

[ponyrl]

Ruby kicked me in the ding-ding

:( 3 times!

MUTHAFU**A!

[AthenaRose]

Just you get back out there and show that Weapon who's boss!

:p

[Biofungus]

Ruby kicked me in the ding-ding

:( 3 times!

MUTHAFU**A!
Forgot the wrench, did you?

[ponyrl]

Forgot the wrench, did you?
D'oh!

:man:

[Calloway]

Not an ff addict anymore. ff 8 cured me of that.

ff 3 is still my favorite but ff7 is right up there. Since aquiring my old ps one from my sister I have borrowed ff9.

I've beaten ever ff I've played except 7. Freakin gold chocobo. Never had the nights of the round table so I ended up trying to fight sephiroth 2 hours at a time. Then I quit. That was in 97.

[Biofungus]

Sephiroth is easy, and doesn't require Knights of the Round. A single Omnislash overdrive will finish him.

[AthenaRose]

Getting Omnislash requires fighting in the arena, right? Not sure I want to do that...

I'm hoping that getting everyone else to around Level 80 (with Cloud, therefore, at a higher level) and duplicating my Materia so that Cloud's group and the second group have similar magic levels (Regen, Wall, a selection of Summons) will get me through.

[Biofungus]

Cloud fights Sephiroth mano a mano.

[AthenaRose]

Ah, I've never made it that far. I've had Sephy beat me to a pulp as a group, on more than one occasion, though :(

[Lovecraft13]

Ruby kicked me in the ding-ding

:( 3 times!

MUTHAFU**A!

Did you enter the fight with two dead characters? It helps to initiate the main part of the battle from the start.

[ponyrl]

Did you enter the fight with two dead characters? It helps to initiate the main part of the battle from the start.
Had all three. Do I enter with two dead? :huh:

[Biofungus]

Look online man, the strats are all there :)

[Mwynn]

Getting Omnislash requires fighting in the arena, right? Not sure I want to do that...

I'm hoping that getting everyone else to around Level 80 (with Cloud, therefore, at a higher level) and duplicating my Materia so that Cloud's group and the second group have similar magic levels (Regen, Wall, a selection of Summons) will get me through.
Cloud will use omnislash no matter if you get it or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs6Iprlb2Hk

[ponyrl]

Look online man, the strats are all there :)
I'm using one of of those strats, money. Still got my ass whipped.

:(

[Lovecraft13]

Cloud will use omnislash no matter if you get it or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs6Iprlb2Hk

Geez, I can't believe those graphics were ahead of its time. It looks like Lego Final Fantasy...

[AthenaRose]

Cloud will use omnislash no matter if you get it or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs6Iprlb2Hk

OK. But I still have to get through a normal battle with him first. That's the bit I've always struggled with :p

[Mwynn]

OK. But I still have to get through a normal battle with him first. That's the bit I've always struggled with :p
Oh safer sepiroth. Try this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMwOcu6tYDE

[AthenaRose]

Thanks Mwynn!

[ponyrl]

That was the ugliest battle I've ever seen. Vincent didn't even survive.

[Biofungus]

Yeah, I watched that battle. It was terrible. He's got Cloud doing 8500 damage per hit with 2x (not even 4x), and he spends half the time having Cloud use items? Duh! And you never want to transform Vincent in a boss fight unless you're uber leveled (and Gallian Beast? That's his first and weakest limit break!)

The kid obviously didn't know what he was doing. If you look at the overall damage done, Cloud, even with 2x could have taken him down in just a few rounds, if he used Tifa and Vincent for support properly.

The whole time I kept wanting to yell, "use a f***ing 'remedy'!". I mean, he had 18 of them, yet he's using maiden's kiss and cornucopia and other individual cure items against Seph's "Pale Horse" technique. What the hell was he saving the remedies for?

[ponyrl]

Yeah, I watched that battle. It was terrible. He's got Cloud doing 8500 damage per hit with 2x (not even 4x), and he spends half the time having Cloud use items? Duh! And you never want to transform Vincent in a boss fight unless you're uber leveled (and Gallian Beast? That's his first and weakest limit break!)

The kid obviously didn't know what he was doing. If you look at the overall damage done, Cloud, even with 2x could have taken him down in just a few rounds, if he used Tifa and Vincent for support properly.

The whole time I kept wanting to yell, "use a f***ing 'remedy'!". I mean, he had 18 of them, yet he's using maiden's kiss and cornucopia and other individual cure items against Seph's "Pale Horse" technique. What the hell was he saving the remedies for?
I wanted to scream, "Where the hell was ribbon!" Did anyone have that equiped, Jesus.

:man:

[AthenaRose]

I was wondering why he didn't use Big Guard and have All linked to Regen :confused:



BTW - I just love geeky conversations :p

[Biofungus]

He didn't even need Big Guard, IMO. He just needed to use his characters smarter. Pony's right, a ribbon would have helped. Someone commented he needed to train up his materia. Very important. 4x would have helped him out tremendously. As it was, it seems he had counter on all of them. Just a very sloppy fight all around.

[Shin_Jinlaw]

He didn't even need Big Guard, IMO. He just needed to use his characters smarter. Pony's right, a ribbon would have helped. Someone commented he needed to train up his materia. Very important. 4x would have helped him out tremendously. As it was, it seems he had counter on all of them. Just a very sloppy fight all around.

Very interesting. :thumbs:

[AthenaRose]

I have 2 Ribbons :nyah:

[Biofungus]

You found the other secret one, eh ;) congrats (that one wasn't even listed in the early strategy guides).

[ponyrl]

I-am- STILL getting my ASS kicked by Ruby and I've tried 2 different strategies. The second seems to be getting me almost there.....

CHRIST!

:man:

[AthenaRose]

You found the other secret one, eh ;) congrats (that one wasn't even listed in the early strategy guides).

I did? :huh:

I mean, yes, I did! :rolleyes:

Seriously, anything I've found has been a complete fluke. The walkthrough I'm using is almost useless. Fortunately, I'm not aiming for a 'perfect' game, this time.


Pony - have you checked this? (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197341/3900)

[Biofungus]

I'm assuming the second one you got was in the cave in the ice fields. Nobody knew about that for awhile, and it wasn't in the strat guides. It's just one of those "dumb luck" happen-upons (I think the opening to the room it's in looks like one of the stalagmites).

[AthenaRose]

I definitely entered a room whose entrance wasn't obvious - it looked like I was walking through a wall. And there was a chest inside, but I have no idea what was in it, now. It may well have been a Ribbon, though :D

[AthenaRose]

I did it, I did it!!! After 10 years, and numerous attempts, I finally ground Sephiroth to dust beneath my heel.

I feel quite heady with the excitement of it :rolleyes:

[ponyrl]

:D Congrats!

[ponyrl]

Time to bring the pain!

7 addicts unite! :D

[Biofungus]

I finished the game years ago (I own the PC version), but I've never gotten to disc 3 since, because something ALWAYS goes wrong. Either the ffdshow codec (that plays an important role particularly in the scene when you're in the observatory) is too new, or too old and the game freezes at that point, or something else goes wrong, or eventually the computer needs to be reformatted, etc. I always get interrupted.

[Moonrider]

I finished the game years ago (I own the PC version), but I've never gotten to disc 3 since, because something ALWAYS goes wrong. Either the ffdshow codec (that plays an important role particularly in the scene when you're in the observatory) is too new, or too old and the game freezes at that point, or something else goes wrong, or eventually the computer needs to be reformatted, etc. I always get interrupted.

I found a patch online to remedy that ffdshow problem, but you gotta uninstall your K-Lite codec pack first before patching. Never tried that m'self, I don't own the game.

[Biofungus]

I have tried it, and it worked. Of course, that was last time before the reformat :laugh: Like I said, something *always* comes up that keeps me from finishing it.

[AthenaRose]

Try it again!

[Biofungus]

I can't find the discs :( Ironically, I made *two* back up sets (a cd to cd backup with 4 discs, and I copied all of them onto one dvd, even talked to one of the original programmers about how we could make the game playable from the DVD). I think they're still back in NY :(