Writers: Pay Attention Because This Sucks

[Raven]

I found this while doing a little research, I was having trouble finding an agent and I knew the strike was slightly responsible but it is in fact worse than I thought:

From a source:

With the WGA contract about to expire and DGA and SAG to follow next year, agents can't get work for their existing clients let alone new ones (Endeavor just let go of scores of writer clients). The labor difficulties will make it next to impossible to get anyone interested until at least next summer.

So if anyone else was looking to branch out from comics, this isn't the time to do it because it seems the movie industry sucks as bad for writers right now as comics do.


In case you don't know who Endeavor represents and how big a deal this really is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endeavor_Talent_Agency

[Nick Kerklaan]

So if anyone else was looking to branch out from comics, this isn't the time to do it because it seems the movie industry sucks as bad for writers right now as comics do.

The movie industry always sucked more compared to comics, at least for me. It might be hard to break into comics as a writer, but at least I don't have to move to fucking L.A. to do it.

[Ian Ascher]

I dont think there's any reason to worry.

When was the last time we had a strike???

I remember back in 2000 or 2001 there was a big sace of a Screen Writers Guild strike. Survivor had just hit big and EVERYONE was rushing to buy and produce reality tv shows just in case all the drama and sit-com writer's walked out on Hollywood. It never happened.

It'll be close. It'll probably come down to the wire. Hell, if they do strike it might even last more than three or four days, but in the end it's a pebble in an ocean.

If you want into the movie industry bad enough, you'll find a way in with or without an agent.

[Raven]

The point is no agencies are taking on new clients and some are releasing the ones they have. That's REALLY bad.

You can't work without an agent or a union, if neither is available, that means for the next six months minimum the entertainment industry doesn't need any writers. That can have major repercussions, especially in an industry like comics that will bend over backwards to get Hollywood talent. If these guys are out of work, where do you think the first place they will turn?

[Ian Ascher]

I still don't think there's any need to worry or panic.

Yes... comics have seen an influx of writers from the "Hollywood" market over the past few years but if it was that easy to make the transition from movie scripts to comics, guys like us should have called it quits years ago.

Just because you can write a comic book doesn't mean you can write a movie script. Just because you can write a movie script doesn't mean you can write comics. It aint that easy to make the jump. I know because after writing comics for years in variety of styles, Im now in a screenwriting workshop and the differences are night an day.

Sure basic elements apply but to re-structure your mind set from a 90-100 minute movie into a 22 page comic is a bitch if you don't understand the medium.

Style issues aside, I was recently told from someone with years in the comic book biz under his belt that no matter how good you are, if you don't understand superheroes, you won't get work in comics and I believe that 100%. Guys like Bendis and Brubaker and Rucka (while not considered screen writers) didn't make their names on superheroes BUT, love their work or hate it, they understand them and know how to write them.

An even better example of screen writer turned comic book scibe is Christos Gage. He wrote for Law & Order (that was his big claim to fame). He came from a crime drama background. Read Stormwatch PHD and it's a solid superhero/cop book. I'm also reading his Quasar mini over at Marvel (with great art by Mike Lilly). Christos ain't so hot on the sci-fi space soap opera stuff. It just reads flat. If I was an on-going book instead of a four issue mini I would have dropped it after two issues.

So what was my point? Oh yeah... IF there is a strike in Hollywood you may see a huge influx of screen writers try to look at comics as a way to break in but the reality is out of 100 screen writers that try, only five may get it and only one or two may get a job.

If Marvel is looking for a writer and it comes down to you or some guy who writes for Grey's Anatomy, unless the project is a Night Nurse revival, you probably have the upper hand on the deal.

[Raven]

I still don't think there's any need to worry or panic.

If Marvel is looking for a writer and it comes down to you or some guy who writes for Grey's Anatomy, unless the project is a Night Nurse revival, you probably have the upper hand on the deal.

I agree that it isn't anything to panic over.

On the other hand I disagree about them not getting work, Marvel doesn't screen anybody from Hollywood. If 100 screenwriters went to Marvel I think ALL of them would get jobs.

Reggie Hudlin is a PERFECT example. Damon Lindelof is another. Neither one had ANY comic experience. Some guys like Cristos and Josh Whedon did smaller press comics and made a name for themselves outside of film/tv. Other guys simply get handed a series because the tag line alone is worth the money they pay them "from the creator of LOST" means more than ten years worth of comicbook writing.

[Mike225]

Reggie Hudlin's work on Black Panther has been exceptional.

[Raven]

Reggie Hudlin's work on Black Panther has been exceptional.

Compared to what??

I don't want to argue with you about it because everyone has their own tastes, but I find him condescending and amateur. I've told him this personally, so it isn't like I'm just hating on the guy, I truly believe he has no talent for comics at all.

[Mike225]

Compared to what??That would be compared to other's handling of the character. I'd put him up there with Priest.

[Mwynn]

I dont think there's any reason to worry.

When was the last time we had a strike???

I remember back in 2000 or 2001 there was a big sace of a Screen Writers Guild strike. Survivor had just hit big and EVERYONE was rushing to buy and produce reality tv shows just in case all the drama and sit-com writer's walked out on Hollywood. It never happened.

It'll be close. It'll probably come down to the wire. Hell, if they do strike it might even last more than three or four days, but in the end it's a pebble in an ocean.

If you want into the movie industry bad enough, you'll find a way in with or without an agent.
As I said before I hope this goes down. There needs to be a serious shakeup in Hollywood. Since the public is unwilling to take action, maybe this will do the trick.

[Ian Ascher]

Marvel is going to print 70 to 75 original comic books in the month of October. That number does not include reprints or adaptations of novels.

Reggie Hudlin writes one book. I think Joss is still writing one book. That's two screen writers. There may be two or three more being written by novelsts (Moon Knight and Foolkiller). I dont even know who Damon Lindelof is. Does he write for Marvel? Let's say he does.

Thanks 5 books out of 75 not being written by more "traditional" comic book scribes. If Marvel was really that intent on getting screen writers, they wouldn't wait for a strike, they would have them already working on books. It would be Bendis, Brubaker, and thirty other guys that wrote screenplays.

Joss Whedon didn't do comics until well after Buffy and Angel was a huge hit for him and for the longest time all he did was Buffy and Angel comics. Joss also went right to Dark Horse. I don't think he ever did any real indy type books (a'la Digital Webbing).

We can use JMS as another example. He broke in at DC in the 80s, ended up going to animation, then to tv, then back to comics on his own books before getting on at Marvel. Sure, the market has changed since the 80's but Babalyon 5 was a big deal in sci-fi yet it didn't give JMS the chops to just leap right back to Marvel.

It's also one thing to have a book by the creator of LOST. Its another to have one written by some guy that wrote one episode in the second season.

[Raven]

Marvel is going to print 70 to 75 original comic books in the month of October. That number does not include reprints or adaptations of novels.

Reggie Hudlin writes one book. I think Joss is still writing one book. That's two screen writers. There may be two or three more being written by novelsts (Moon Knight and Foolkiller). I dont even know who Damon Lindelof is. Does he write for Marvel? Let's say he does.

Thanks 5 books out of 75 not being written by more "traditional" comic book scribes. If Marvel was really that intent on getting screen writers, they wouldn't wait for a strike, they would have them already working on books. It would be Bendis, Brubaker, and thirty other guys that wrote screenplays.

Joss Whedon didn't do comics until well after Buffy and Angel was a huge hit for him and for the longest time all he did was Buffy and Angel comics. Joss also went right to Dark Horse. I don't think he ever did any real indy type books (a'la Digital Webbing).

We can use JMS as another example. He broke in at DC in the 80s, ended up going to animation, then to tv, then back to comics on his own books before getting on at Marvel. Sure, the market has changed since the 80's but Babalyon 5 was a big deal in sci-fi yet it didn't give JMS the chops to just leap right back to Marvel.

It's also one thing to have a book by the creator of LOST. Its another to have one written by some guy that wrote one episode in the second season.

Your talking about stuff that happened pre-Quesada era. Joe will take anyone with any Hollywood ties.

You want an example of some guy that wrote one episode of something?

Allan Heinberg. Wrote episodes for Party of Five, Gilmore Girls, Sex in the City and The O.C. Marvel gave him his own series, let him create his own characters and has put the book on hiatus until he feels like coming back. That book is Young Avengers. NO comicbook writing experience at all.

And if you don't know who Allan and Damon are, you really aren't informed enough to discuss it any further.

[Mike225]

Allan Heinberg. Wrote episodes for Party of Five, Gilmore Girls, Sex in the City and The O.C. Marvel gave him his own series, let him create his own characters and has put the book on hiatus until he feels like coming back. That book is Young Avengers. NO comicbook writing experience at all.Wow, you're stuff must be really great for you to be bagging on all these writers!

Young Avengers was critically praised. Yeah, it's on hiatus and that sucks, but you can't argue that it wasn't a good book. Oh, and DC did the same thing with the guy, letting him relaunch Wonder Woman.

In fact, isn't that how Geoff Johns got his start? Writing movies?

[Mwynn]

Ha you all forgot about Kevin Smith.

[Mike225]

...hunh. Yeah, I guess I did.

[Mwynn]

So did he actually finish any of the books he started?

[Mike225]

Kevin Smith? He finished Daredevil, Green Arrow, did some Oni stuff...I think there was a Black Cat book in there somewhere, but I'm not sure.

[Phatman]

Your talking about stuff that happened pre-Quesada era. Joe will take anyone with any Hollywood ties.

You want an example of some guy that wrote one episode of something?

Allan Heinberg. Wrote episodes for Party of Five, Gilmore Girls, Sex in the City and The O.C. Marvel gave him his own series, let him create his own characters and has put the book on hiatus until he feels like coming back. That book is Young Avengers. NO comicbook writing experience at all.

And if you don't know who Allan and Damon are, you really aren't informed enough to discuss it any further.

Raven:

I had no clue on Alan Heinberg's resume, but Young Avengers is a really well written book IMO. A good writer is probably going to be a good comic book writer if you ask me-especially one who writes a lot of dialogue like in television. I think it's a good thing that there is a mix of writers from other media into comics-as long as they are good, I don't care where they came from. I think a focus of your criticism should be on the lack of doors for unestablished writers, rather than attacking other people with talent.

[Mike225]

Raven:

I had no clue on Alan Heinberg's resume, but Young Avengers is a really well written book IMO. A good writer is probably going to be a good comic book writer if you ask me-especially one who writes a lot of dialogue like in television. I think it's a good thing that there is a mix of writers from other media into comics-as long as they are good, I don't care where they came from. I think a focus of your criticism should be on the lack of doors for unestablished writers, rather than attacking other people with talent.http://warnerkirby.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/the_more_you_know775718.jpg

[Lovecraft13]

So if anyone else was looking to branch out from comics, this isn't the time to do it because it seems the movie industry sucks as bad for writers right now as comics do.

Here's an idea, make your own movie.

[Raven]

Wow, you're stuff must be really great for you to be bagging on all these writers!

Young Avengers was critically praised. Yeah, it's on hiatus and that sucks, but you can't argue that it wasn't a good book. Oh, and DC did the same thing with the guy, letting him relaunch Wonder Woman.

In fact, isn't that how Geoff Johns got his start? Writing movies?

I never said anything about the quality of any of these writers other than Hudlin. I am saying that they did not have any comic book experience and were hired specifically because of the TV stuff they wrote. I've spoken with Alan a couple times and he is a great guy. He's the only writer I've offered to let write my characters, just mentioning someone didn't have any experience at a job isn't saying they aren't good at it. Stop looking for things to pick fights over.

I never attacked anybody at all. Except Hudlin. My point is they didn't write any comics before Joe hired them and it could easily happen again during the strike.

[Mike225]

I never said anything about the quality of any of these writers other than Hudlin.Maybe in this thread, but just this week it's been Kirkman and Casey. I don't feel like going back to find more.

[Ian Ascher]

Your talking about stuff that happened pre-Quesada era. Joe will take anyone with any Hollywood ties.

You want an example of some guy that wrote one episode of something?

Allan Heinberg. Wrote episodes for Party of Five, Gilmore Girls, Sex in the City and The O.C. Marvel gave him his own series, let him create his own characters and has put the book on hiatus until he feels like coming back. That book is Young Avengers. NO comicbook writing experience at all.

And if you don't know who Allan and Damon are, you really aren't informed enough to discuss it any further.


You missed my point Raven.

If Joe Q was so intent on raiding Hollywood to write Marvel books then we would have no one but screen writers currently writing for Marvel.

I know who Allen is. I read young Avengers. Wasn't great but it wasn't bad. I don't read Black Panther, not because I didn't like Young Avengers well enough but because I just don't care for the character. Never have and probably never will.

I freely admit I don't know who this Damon guy you speak of is. I don't care either. He's obviously not writing any really big projects at Marvel.

For that matter, neither is Allen, is he?

Allen was, and is, a gimmick. He was smart by mentioning Marvel Comics by name in his script. Joe saw that and got him to write comics in the hopes of brining over all the little teen and twenty somethings along for the ride. Hey kids, this guy writing this book about teen superhero angst... he writes for the OC too. Bam! ales increase. The fact that Allen was able to stick around Marvel and keep writing shows he knew a little more than most.

All the big books at Marvel are being written by solid comic book guys and they probably always will be. Sure, Joss got an X book but it wasn't Uncanny and Joss already had cut his chops in the comic world by that time.

Worst case scenario: The Screen Writers Guild Strikes and a few Hollywood guys get a gig or two until the strike is settled, and it will be settled fast if it happens. People wil only watch so many games shows and reality hows before they turn off the tv and >gasp< read or spend time w/ family and friends. That means no advertising revenue for the networks which hurts the companies advertising and so on.

Also remember, projects are planned out so far in advance it will take at least six months to get a book green lit and produced before it hits the shelves. These guys need to eat too so if they aren't writing for tv or movies, how long do you think they're going to wait before they have to find another means of putting food on the table? Comics don't pay what a movie script can, not even at Marvel.

[Raven]

Maybe in this thread, but just this week it's been Kirkman and Casey. I don't feel like going back to find more.

In the case of Hudlin and Kirkman, I've got history there. I've told them directly what I thought about their work and I don't need to apologize to some guy who looks for things to start shit over.

Do I need to make a list of the people I've encountered in the years I've been writing and the ones I like and don't like and post it for your approval or what? How about people I've worked with that failed to come through, want to see that list to, so that I can talk about this stuff without listening to you bitch about different topics in different threads?

The point of this thread was to inform people that there is going to be a lot of writers out of work. The agency I mentioned that let people go actually represents Kevin Smith but I doubt he's one of the ones they couldn't find work for.

My point was that if they have any credentials at all in TV or film they will get work in comics, because there are clear examples of it happening before.

[Raven]

You missed my point Raven.

Worst case scenario: The Screen Writers Guild Strikes and a few Hollywood guys get a gig or two until the strike is settled, and it will be settled fast if it happens. People wil only watch so many games shows and reality hows before they turn off the tv and >gasp< read or spend time w/ family and friends. That means no advertising revenue for the networks which hurts the companies advertising and so on.

Also remember, projects are planned out so far in advance it will take at least six months to get a book green lit and produced before it hits the shelves. These guys need to eat too so if they aren't writing for tv or movies, how long do you think they're going to wait before they have to find another means of putting food on the table? Comics don't pay what a movie script can, not even at Marvel.

Okay, got it now. I agree with that. I wasn't ringing the bells that the screenwriters were going to siege into the medium, I was trying to help guys in my situation who might be looking for an agent by letting them know that now is NOT a good time.

[Mike225]

In the case of Hudlin and Kirkman, I've got history there. I've told them directly what I thought about their work and I don't need to apologize to some guy who looks for things to start shit over.

Do I need to make a list of the people I've encountered in the years I've been writing and the ones I like and don't like and post it for your approval or what? How about people I've worked with that failed to come through, want to see that list to, so that I can talk about this stuff without listening to you bitch about different topics in different threads?

The point of this thread was to inform people that there is going to be a lot of writers out of work. The agency I mentioned that let people go actually represents Kevin Smith but I doubt he's one of the ones they couldn't find work for.

My point was that if they have any credentials at all in TV or film they will get work in comics, because there are clear examples of it happening before.You don't need to mention any of the people that you have history with, because I don't care. It gets a little tiresome with the same old song and dance everytime a new project comes out.

I'll let you in on a little secret: Kirkman hasn't taken money from you. Heinberg, Hudlin or Casey haven't either, nor have the guys from Hollywood.

If you don't like them, that's fine, I don't care about that, either. However, respect that they have the talent needed to work in the industry they've chosen. Otherwise, you're just another fanboy.

[Buckyrig]

I'm a whiny bitch.

[Mike225]

We know.

[Nick Kerklaan]

I like how this whole scenario assumes that the majority of screenwriters will even want to write for comics. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was possible to like movies but have no interest in comics whatsoever. Just because comics also have scripts doesn't mean that's automatically where out-of-work screenwriters are going to go. Maybe some will write plays. Hell, maybe they'll all go write novels. Comics and movies are not the only two industries in the world that have writers, y'know.

[kdmelrose]

And if you don't know who Allan and Damon are, you really aren't informed enough to discuss it any further.

Wow, speaking of "condescending" ...

[exilednight]

This is the reason I work in Print Journalism.

[Raven]

From Brian K Vaughn's blog on myspace:

I'm lucky that my phone started ringing from editors at Marvel and DC as soon as the threat of the strike materialized .

[L Jamal]

How does that support your argument?
Vaughn left comics to do TV and still does comics.
Of course, Marvel and DC would contact him to do more comics now that he has more free time.

[Raven]

How does that support your argument?
Vaughn left comics to do TV and still does comics.
Of course, Marvel and DC would contact him to do more comics now that he has more free time.

Just him though, right?

[L Jamal]

I'm sure they will throw more work at Whedon, Heinberg, and several other TV/ Screen writers that have done comic book work. I'm sure Colbert will be able to fast track approval on his Tek Jansen book, but those are still all people who have prior work in comics. Can you name one person without prior experience in comics that has announced a comic book project? If Marvel or DC had snagged anyone of note, they would have announced it.

At best I think we'll see more Runaways, Buffy, Young Avengers and the end of Ultimate Hulk/ Wolverine. Maybe more work by Wolfman and Dini.

Any smart publisher would be lining up to have these writers without jobs to write graphic novels. Since their audiences are mainstream, you'd get more bang for your buck by having them do graphic novels that can be released to the mainstream.

[Raven]

I'm sure they will throw more work at Whedon, Heinberg, and several other TV/ Screen writers that have done comic book work. I'm sure Colbert will be able to fast track approval on his Tek Jansen book, but those are still all people who have prior work in comics. Can you name one person without prior experience in comics that has announced a comic book project? If Marvel or DC had snagged anyone of note, they would have announced it.

At best I think we'll see more Runaways, Buffy, Young Avengers and the end of Ultimate Hulk/ Wolverine. Maybe more work by Wolfman and Dini.

Any smart publisher would be lining up to have these writers without jobs to write graphic novels. Since their audiences are mainstream, you'd get more bang for your buck by having them do graphic novels that can be released to the mainstream.

You are right, there aren't any new writers yet. Wait and see in three months when they all start running out of money. :)

You are dead on about the graphic novels, but I seriously doubt Marvel or DC would do anything so smart, they love milking the singles, that is why neither of them do OGN's.

[kdmelrose]

Raven cherry-picked Vaughan's post, leaving out:... and while I’ve gotten some cool offers to work on existing books, I think I’m going to take however long the strike lasts (which could be anywhere between a day and forever) to concentrate on making Ex Machina kick as much ass as possible as we start to head into that series’ final year, and to continue to develop my next big creator-owned projects now that I’ve finished all my scripts for Y: The Last Man, Runaways, Buffy, The Escapists, Doctor Strange, and the upcoming Logan mini with Eduardo Risso. And: ***Does this mean there’s going to be a flood of Hollywood writers coming into comics?

Maybe? I know a few creators--and a lot of readers--are sometimes annoyed by carpet-bagging movie/television writers swooping into comics to steal “their” jobs, but film/TV writers have been enormously generous about letting me into their world, and I think we should return the favor. Art is not a competition, and there’s always room for talented creators.

That said, no one wants these screenwriters to just try to shoehorn their unsold pitches and scripts into comic form. But trust me, the many writers out here who truly love comics already know that it’s a totally unique medium, one that deserves unique stories.

I guess I’d be a hypocrite to completely frown on translating existing movies/shows into comics (I had an awesome time doing that with Buffy) or translating existing comics into movies/shows (happily done it with Y and Ex Machina), but I think what each medium really needs is NEW ideas specifically created to play to the strengths of that particular artform. But DC and Marvel called Brian Vaughan -- and probably a few other writers. So what?

Next folks will be yelling, "Dey took our jebs!"