Any SVA Students or Alumni on here?

[Artboycat]

Cartooning Major - Graduated in 2003 -

[The Scribe]

Can I be one, or did I actually have to go? :p

[Artboycat]

Can I be one, or did I actually have to go? :p

well if your unemployed, struggling to make ends meet, and frustrated with life, you might as well say you went to SVA...

[spider]

Sounds good to me,
where do I sign?

[spider]

I did study the 'Multi Arts Project' course (MAP) here in the UK,
I'm willing to bet nobody has heard of it but it's worth a shot since I've been suprised before.

[The Scribe]

well if your unemployed, struggling to make ends meet, and frustrated with life, you might as well say you went to SVA...

I don't have much money and I'm about to apply for disability.

Also, I'm no too happy with life. I can't stand people half the time either.

How's that?

[xombey]

i took a few animation and drawing classes there... does that count for anything?

[Multisync143]

I don't have much money and I'm about to apply for disability.

Also, I'm no too happy with life. I can't stand people half the time either.

How's that?
http://www.salem-news.com/stimg/may292007/hanging_noose_310.jpg

Just hang in there Scribe.

Sorry, wrong poster.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/PTGPOD/378793.jpg

[The Scribe]

Just hang in there Scribe.

Sorry, wrong poster.

That wasn't very nice, Mutistink. :p

[BEN DENNIS]

I politely turned down a scholarship to the Savannah, GA campus. Do I qualify?

[Artboycat]

i took a few animation and drawing classes there... does that count for anything?

yeah I think it counts, what was your take on it?

[Artboycat]

lol, I didn't think this would turn into a Suicide Club, but I guess anyone that wants to share their experiences in art school is fine by me

[xombey]

yeah I think it counts, what was your take on it?
i took this "heightened" drawing class. it was supposed to be especially for animators and illustrators (as opposed to fine artists). i felt i didn't get much out of it. i'm pretty sure she taught from a book.

the animation courses were better. an in-betweening class. liked it. there was a guy who had actually worked in studios in the philipines--i was surprised he felt he needed the classs. the instructer, becky (can't remember her last name and couldn't find her when i looked up faculty) was very encouraging, but timid (the kind of person you could see being taken advantage of by friends an colleagues). i learned a lot in that class and should have taken it again just for the practice.

i took another animation class--don't remember much about it and can't find the animatics i made.

i guess i didn't get the full effect of a f/t student. i do feel that art schools shouldn't exist or offer classes because the industries just don't have as many jobs to go around.

becky's production co (info i got from her syllabus doesn't even exist anymore)

[spider]

Well no one is going to know what MAP is so since my tag is attention whore I may as well live up to it.

MAP was a course that allowed students to persue their own creative goals which would work towards a qualification, it was awesome because you had creators from all sorts of mediums.
I became well aquainted with Pro tools and familiar with Reason(fun to use but hugely complex), dabbled a little with animation but didn't really persue it.
I mostly did music and photography, while playing around with photoshop and drawing inbetween.
Met some amazing people there, one of whom made national news, he was a mexican homeless guy who was doing filmmaking, he didn't let his living situation stand in his way and persued his goals regardless.

[Artboycat]

i do feel that art schools shouldn't exist or offer classes because the industries just don't have as many jobs to go around.



I agree that they shouldn't exist cuz they really just rob people of their money, unless your going for graphic design, web design, and or possibly computer animation...There's just certain things that you shouldn't be able to major in unless the school can provide a strong curriculum focused on solid technique that will allow the artist to hone his skills and make him a competitive force in the industry. However, there isn't enough room for everybody in this business for many reasons, so the process of enticing naive guys like me into majoring in cartooning and investing years of time and money into something you would love to do and being discouraged when you can't find work, may be a way of eliminating the competition. Having little hope for work in a particular field that you love, would definitely discourage many from pursuing their dreams. For those that remain, the burden of loan debts and going from one crappy job to another might motivate some to pursue their goals even more...

hehe...wow I went off on a rant!

[Newt]

Bah, schools provide a service to those who want it. If you're too silly to research the job market before you choose your major, you deserve what you get.

[C. Wallace]

I started there in 1991. Artboycat I may actually have known you in school since we were there the same time.

Yes, I too think it was dramatically overpriced. I think it was $17,000 my last year there. Frankly, it sucked ass having to sit through english, and science classes, which were nothing short of a regurgitation of my high school courses. I was more interested in taking course that would better me for my professional career.

In the end, I felt I got the most out of the classes with teachers like Will Eisner, Walt Simonson and Carmine Infantino who could make use of their real world experience in the industry as well as their mastery of the art form to impart invaluable knowledge to the students.

[xombey]

Bah, schools provide a service to those who want it. If you're too silly to research the job market before you choose your major, you deserve what you get.
if i were choosing a major within the last 10 yrs--i'd have researched it on the internet like i do everything , from best iron to buy to side fx of my prescription Rx. i also realize that this might have been doable @ my local library. that said, i still feel that a school that offers classes in a field that is so small is wrong to do so, or should limit the applicants they accept according to the market, i also hate the tons of how to books out there that give the misleading idea that a living can actually be made this way. it seems almost like a scam

[Newt]

if i were choosing a major within the last 10 yrs--i'd have researched it on the internet like i do everything , from best iron to buy to side fx of my prescription Rx. i also realize that this might have been doable @ my local library. that said, i still feel that a school that offers classes in a field that is so small is wrong to do so, or should limit the applicants they accept according to the market, i also hate the tons of how to books out there that give the misleading idea that a living can actually be made this way. it seems almost like a scam

It's not a scam. If the regular schools stopped offerring such services, freelancers would start- because there are tons of people who want to learn about art, philosophy, linguistics, comparative theology, music, theatre, competitive sports, etc., even though the job markets are not strong; these people will search out someone they can give their money to and learn from. In my experience, at least, the instructors in such fields are quite open and honest with their students about the state of the job market for people with such esoteric educations. The students persist because a) they're taking the classes for personal satisfaction rather than job qualification; b) they think they have what it takes to become one of those who does succeed in their field; c) they cannot stomach the idea of doing anything else; or some combination of the above.

And obviously you can make a living in the arts; it's not quite so dismal as you make it sound. An straight up studio arts education may qualify you for work in a number of fields outside of fine arts- everything from set decoration to animation to advertisement- and an education in design or illustration will open up even more avenues for you. It's a competitive field, but not a closed one.

[Artboycat]

It's not a scam. If the regular schools stopped offerring such services, freelancers would start- because there are tons of people who want to learn about art, philosophy, linguistics, comparative theology, music, theatre, competitive sports, etc., even though the job markets are not strong; these people will search out someone they can give their money to and learn from. In my experience, at least, the instructors in such fields are quite open and honest with their students about the state of the job market for people with such esoteric educations. The students persist because a) they're taking the classes for personal satisfaction rather than job qualification; b) they think they have what it takes to become one of those who does succeed in their field; c) they cannot stomach the idea of doing anything else; or some combination of the above.

And obviously you can make a living in the arts; it's not quite so dismal as you make it sound. An straight up studio arts education may qualify you for work in a number of fields outside of fine arts- everything from set decoration to animation to advertisement- and an education in design or illustration will open up even more avenues for you. It's a competitive field, but not a closed one.

I knew going into Art School that comic books would be a hard field to get into, but I really thought the required courses would properly train me to either find work in that field or at least heighten my skills to the point where I could compete within other fields and feel confident about my work...I don't think that's a lot to ask for when your paying tons of money and going into debt...I would never take a class for personal satisfaction because I can't afford it, so I went to school with the intent of studying my craft and honing my skills...Yes there is personal satisfaction in learning something that interests you but thats not enough when it comes to debt and money....so as a result of what I thought was a poorly managed curriculum, I ended up stressing out about History and science papers and not putting enough time to my projects and art assignments...Yes there did come a time in my junior year where I did start to focus on my skills and I greatly improved from then on, but this was more of a result of me continuously practicing on my own time, and paying attention to what I was doing...If I had known better at the time I would've taken up web programming or design and practice my skills at home...but then again who's to say if I would've bothered to practice if I didn't go to art school, or if I wouldv'e lost interest all together...I do blame myself a lot of the time but I think a lot of these schools should be made aware of what they are doing, listen and be willing to change for the good of the student, rather then wasting money on fancy advertisement for the school such as SVA does!!

[Newt]

That's the college experience, man. It works the same way in every field.

[Artboycat]

That's the college experience, man. It works the same way in every field.

Nah, I'm pretty sure if I had majored in IT or Web Programming I would be employed, making a decent living by now, but it is an experience. Just wish I can warn others before they make that step.

[Mr.P.Phlegming]

I got accepted to SVA in 2003, I didn't go because I was afraid I would be spending way too much money and not be able to get a job in the future. So I decided to go to a normal university and major in something "useful" I sorta regretted that decision...until today. Thank you. :p

[Buckyrig]

That's the college experience, man. It works the same way in every field.

Actually, it doesn't matter what classes you take once you stop showing up.

[Newt]

Words of wisdom, Buck.

[Buckyrig]

Well...they're unreasonable. How am I supposed to show up for an 8 AM class when I was playing football until 3 AM?

You'd think the people who run a University would be smarter. :rolleyes:

[Newt]

Where were you playing football in the middle of the night? Or did you mean football-based video games...

[Buckyrig]

Lighted courtyard in between two dormitories.

[xombey]

I got accepted to SVA in 2003, I didn't go because I was afraid I would be spending way too much money and not be able to get a job in the future. So I decided to go to a normal university and major in something "useful" I sorta regretted that decision...until today. Thank you. :p
i went to a normal university and majored in art--big mistake. if i turned i a crumbled up piece of paper that i found on the street and could use the right jargon to explain why it's art--i could get an a. people were not really taught technique (i guess they believed that ignorance and freedom are the same thing). but in the end it was my fault for sticking it out....

[xombey]

It's not a scam. If the regular schools stopped offerring such services, freelancers would start- because there are tons of people who want to learn about art, philosophy, linguistics, comparative theology, music, theatre, competitive sports, etc., even though the job markets are not strong; these people will search out someone they can give their money to and learn from. In my experience, at least, the instructors in such fields are quite open and honest with their students about the state of the job market for people with such esoteric educations. The students persist because a) they're taking the classes for personal satisfaction rather than job qualification; b) they think they have what it takes to become one of those who does succeed in their field; c) they cannot stomach the idea of doing anything else; or some combination of the above.

And obviously you can make a living in the arts; it's not quite so dismal as you make it sound. An straight up studio arts education may qualify you for work in a number of fields outside of fine arts- everything from set decoration to animation to advertisement- and an education in design or illustration will open up even more avenues for you. It's a competitive field, but not a closed one.i don't have your rosy outlook. last yr i posted an exchange i had with an sva teacher about to publish a comic how-to. i asked her how she could justify that given the market? this teacher's response was

1.maybe the mainstream market, but the indie mkt was just fine--i bought this teacher's then current comic, there were usullay less that 10 in the racks compared to maybe a hundred or so wolverines or superman(s). i tried to get out of this teacher what kind of money could be made in the field--how much this teacher made from actual sales of comics vs teaching, lecturing, etc (not monetary, %-wise) teacher didn't respond to that, but told me that 2.the goal of an artist should not be motivated by money. that that should be a happy by-product of creating your art.

this is an sva teacher (well, i don't know about this semester)

[Mic. Gee]

i don't have your rosy outlook. last yr i posted an exchange i had with an sva teacher about to publish a comic how-to. i asked her how she could justify that given the market? this teacher's response was

1.maybe the mainstream market, but the indie mkt was just fine--i bought this teacher's then current comic, there were usullay less that 10 in the racks compared to maybe a hundred or so wolverines or superman(s). i tried to get out of this teacher what kind of money could be made in the field--how much this teacher made from actual sales of comics vs teaching, lecturing, etc (not monetary, %-wise) teacher didn't respond to that, but told me that 2.the goal of an artist should not be motivated by money. that that should be a happy by-product of creating your art.

this is an sva teacher (well, i don't know about this semester)
Here's the answer:usually little to nothing. You can make like 3k in one month and get nothing for the next three. That's if you're good.

I think I brought this up a few months ago and I think the consensus,after much fighting, was that when you go into one of these higher institutions, you are more or less taking a risk. Nobody can garantee you a job.

It's not to much a scam as is it a business. What's getting people like you and me raising our eyebrows is that we realize it is a Big business. We know that everyone is in to make some cash on education, as conservatives in Washington push to privatize it as much a possible.. Havard's budget's in the billions. Education, art education is much more lurcrative than the arts market will ever be . Enticing students, who are coming from increasingly more affluent families each year.(sorry just statistics. if you have proof that the trend is the other way or balanced, please post) doesn't seem like a such a hard pill to swallow. It's a better living than freelancing, that's for sure.


...Yes there did come a time in my junior year where I did start to focus on my skills and I greatly improved from then on, but this was more of a result of me continuously practicing on my own time, and paying attention to what I was doing...

Trust no art school. They're just a place you can get a critique , to be honest.

...
IT or Web Programming ...
Who says you can't still do that? Well, besides your wallet?
I never got to the point of taking web design seriously.For every one good website there are 1000 bad ones. I think most of the talent goes into porn.


Feel bad for the students who'll have to take standardized tests to graduate from college in a few years.

[Artboycat]

Here's the answer:usually little to nothing. You can make like 3k in one month and get nothing for the next three. That's if you're good.

I think I brought this up a few months ago and I think the consensus,after much fighting, was that when you go into one of these higher institutions, you are more or less taking a risk. Nobody can garantee you a job.

It's not to much a scam as is it a business. What's getting people like you and me raising our eyebrows is that we realize it is a Big business. We know that everyone is in to make some cash on education, as conservatives in Washington push to privatize it as much a possible.. Havard's budget's in the billions. Education, art education is much more lurcrative than the arts market will ever be . Enticing students, who are coming from increasingly more affluent families each year.(sorry just statistics. if you have proof that the trend is the other way or balanced, please post) doesn't seem like a such a hard pill to swallow. It's a better living than freelancing, that's for sure.




Trust no art school. They're just a place you can get a critique , to be honest.


Who says you can't still do that? Well, besides your wallet?
I never got to the point of taking web design seriously.For every one good website there are 1000 bad ones. I think most of the talent goes into porn.


Feel bad for the students who'll have to take standardized tests to graduate from college in a few years.

At this point I am trying to get into web design, worked in production for a graphic design company, currently submitting resumes and beefing up my website, so I'm slowly moving my way into a more stable career, but it would be great if I could be the next Bryan Hitch or at least find a way to make a career off of my own line of comics...oh yeah and I don't want to live at home with mom and dad anymore!

Theres definitely a lot of bad sites out there, and I'm pretty sure I'm responsible for at least 3 of them...

[Mic. Gee]

Well, there you go. You've got to diversify yourself to survive these days.
It's good to be skilled in more than one area. You just have to be "good" in those areas, for the good of everyone. I've always been interested other areas other than drawing comics but it's a lot of work trying to be proficent in multiple areas. So I just work on one area thing at a time.

I might need a website in the future too. I'm kind of where you're at, where i'm thinking about moving but I need a roommate and some kind of day job or as I like to call it, my cover.

[xombey]

the funny thing is that i got into site bldg @ the wrong time. within 11 months after i started at this company that made mini-sites for companies' stock holders and potential investors most of us were laid-off. i was learning on the job. back then all i needed was html and photoshopo skills. they were teaching me the rest. after the company went out of business i had no more desire to work in that industry. same goes for flash. i rember 10 years ago there were all these sijtes with great flash animattion. i was inspired, got books tand software from my boss and went to work. now that seems to have dried up.creativity doesn't seem to be the way i'll ever make a living. that's fine. but what i hate is when 5 guys out of 100 make a living at it and people talk about believing in dreams and giving it your all. like ,see, it can happen to you. it's funny, when something is bad (say getting hit by lightning) people take comfort in the odds that it won't happen, when it's something good, those same odds are ignored

[Mic. Gee]

Flash got replaced with Activex software.

Just because you can't make a living just doing art doesn't mean you should give up completely. Of course, I'm saying this with no idea what your work looks like or how you work.

Do you just not get anywork or is it very spotty and low-paying?

If you can't find work, make your own comic or whatever your dream market is in your spare time. I've heard conceptual art is booming. Just can't pursue it at the moment.


I don't know what else to say...oh. Yeah,about colleges. Only 5% of students actually move up socioeconomically after going, in the U.S. Like outside of their class.