Pro-Britney blogger gets deal for show

[Mwynn]

eptember 20, 2007
Britney Spears' biggest defender might be getting his own show.

Chris Crocker, who posted on MySpace.com a passionate defense of the pop singer after her performance on MTV's Video Music Awards, has been signed to a development deal with 44 Blue Productions, Variety reports.

Even before the "Leave Britney Alone" posting, which scored nearly 8 million hits after it was posted on YouTube.com, the emotive video blogger had developed a MySpace following.

"Chris first got on our radar a year ago," 44 Blue co-founder Rasha Drachkovitch told Variety.

"It's going to pretty much be 'The Chris Crocker Experience,' " he said. "He's going to be a TV star."

Crocker, 19, lives with his grandparents in Tennessee.

[JJ McKool]

Fuck. Off. You have got to be shitting me.

[Mr.Musgrave]

Fuck. Off. You have got to be shitting me.


I thought the same thing. Except I used the word "fuck" about three more times.

[albone]

Fucking weak. Pyscho emo chick gets a developmental deal. What's next, Paris for president?

[Troy Wall]

Fucking weak. Pyscho emo chick gets a developmental deal. What's next, Paris for president?

That ain't no chick. It's a MAN, baby!!!

[Newt]

Aw jeez, that creature is a fellow Tennessean. I'm so ashamed.

[Buckyrig]

Look! If you would all just take the time to beat the people you know who watch this shit with a Louisville Slugger...this shit would stop!

[Newt]

We'd never have time to do anything else if we spent all our time beating people who support soulless attention whores like Chris Cocker, Al Sharpton, or KISS. There's too many of them.

[Buckyrig]

Aww shit...you went and insulted KISS.

Here comes the furious and righteous hammer fist of Waterman!

[Newt]

That's what I was going for; he hasn't spoken to me in a while, and I kinda miss him.

[Knuckles]

Aw jeez, that creature is a fellow Tennessean. I'm so ashamed.

Or is it really you. Newt is Chris Crocker.


BTW, when I first saw this I thought it was a woman. It wasn't until yesterday that somebody pointed out to me that it was a man.

[Buckyrig]

That's what I was going for; he hasn't spoken to me in a while, and I kinda miss him.

Advocate Cartesianism. That'll start 'im up.

[Troy Wall]

Or is it really you. Newt is Chris Crocker.


BTW, when I first saw this I thought it was a woman. It wasn't until yesterday that somebody pointed out to me that it was a man.

No doubt...that thing is the most feminine looking morphodyke I've ever seen. Stern played some of its other clips on Howard TV where it's wearing a wig and shit and it looks even more like a girl. 3 AM in the club and I'm drunk as a skunk, I'm fucking it, know'um'sayin'?

:laugh:

[Cat]

No doubt...that thing is the most feminine looking morphodyke I've ever seen. Stern played some of its other clips on Howard TV where it's wearing a wig and shit and it looks even more like a girl. 3 AM in the club and I'm drunk as a skunk, I'm fucking it, know'um'sayin'?

:laugh:

Morphodyke? WTF is that?

and "it" is a guy..you can use the correct pronoun. It is OK to say "HE" :yawn:

Yea the kid is a spaz..and has no reason to be on TV let alone be paid for it...but the direction this thread is going reminds me of just how far we still have to go as a society

[FA]

We brought this on ourselves.

:(

[Don Pedicini Jr.]

So will he be moving out of his grandparents house then?? He he.

[MattWaterman]

Advocate Cartesianism. That'll start 'im up.

FUCK Cartesianism! That worthless piece of pedagogy should be forever left on the mantle along with flat-earth theory and uggs-and-miniskirt combos!!!!

Fucking Bullshit!


In the meantime, I wouldn't get in too much of an uproar over that nonsense---the cavemen from Geiko commercial also have their own series coming and we all can see how that's going to turn out. Of anything, foolish Crocker will take his $20,000 advance, spend it all on Prada/Guccit/Juicy, and still be in his grandparent's house three years from now...
:yawn:

[Mike225]

So will he be moving out of his grandparents house then?? He he.It's the "he he" that makes this joke.

[Buckyrig]

Whatever happened to Squirt TV?

[Multisync143]

It will be canceled don't worry.

[The Scribe]

It's a he. :eek:

I thought Chris was a female the first time I saw him. :har:

[spider]

Me too but I'm not picky.

Ask Jon.

[Troy Wall]

Morphodyke? WTF is that?

and "it" is a guy..you can use the correct pronoun. It is OK to say "HE" :yawn:

Yea the kid is a spaz..and has no reason to be on TV let alone be paid for it...but the direction this thread is going reminds me of just how far we still have to go as a society

I made that word up just for "it." I feel like it captures "its" morphodyke-like characteristics pretty well. :happy:

Morphodyke (Noun): A male or female who poses as the opposite sex, but unlike traditional transexuals, projects an image so convincing that you would fuck it when you are soused.

[Justice41]

Speak for yourself Wall. If you couldn't tell by the voice he was male you need your ears checked. I say good for him. If the talentless hacks who make tv shows want to throw money into the crapper why not grab as much up as possible. I hope the kid becomes huge.

[Mike225]

Yeah, soon even the fanboys will be hacks.

[Justice41]

Yeah, soon even the fanboys will be hacks.
Umm yeah whatever that means.

[Mike225]

Umm yeah whatever that means.Don't blame me, you're the one that edited.

[DemolitionSamurai]

This is what we get for promoting excessive tolerance. School bullying needs to be brought back. It's a good thing and always has been because kids like this need to be shown that their way of life is not acceptable. Emo and Hardcore are two subcultures that could have been killed off in their infancy if we were just willing to allow their over-styled hair to be ruined by the occasional swirlie.

[Raven]

I made that word up just for "it." I feel like it captures "its" morphodyke-like characteristics pretty well. :happy:

Morphodyke (Noun): A male or female who poses as the opposite sex, but unlike traditional transexuals, projects an image so convincing that you would fuck it when you are soused.

Is it me or do they seem to be throwing TV shows to gay people today?

[The-Spirit]

I think it's great! I'm gonna have my own TV show too.

[Newt]

Is it me or do they seem to be throwing TV shows to gay people today?
I think it's great! I'm gonna have my own TV show too.
Today 08:23 AM
I figured you for a straight arrow, Spirit. Just goes to show you, I guess.

[Buckyrig]

Emo and Hardcore are two subcultures that could have been killed off in their infancy if we were just willing to allow their over-styled hair to be ruined by the occasional swirlie.

You mean the late 70s/early 80s?

Or this MTV bastardization? :nyah:

It's marketing.

The hardcore kids I knew growing up...good luck trying to bully them. You might lose an eye. :laugh:

[Cat]

I made that word up just for "it." I feel like it captures "its" morphodyke-like characteristics pretty well. :happy:

Morphodyke (Noun): A male or female who poses as the opposite sex, but unlike traditional transexuals, projects an image so convincing that you would fuck it when you are soused.

Is it me or do they seem to be throwing TV shows to gay people today?

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!?

Why is everyone attacking this kid because he is probably gay. Is it because it is an easy punching bag for society?!?!? The last accepted discrimination?!?! I am so fucking sick of homosexuals being the brunt of the joke. I have HAD IT! PEOPLE...IT IS NOT FUNNY! GROW THE FUCK UP!

Raven I am so taken a back by that statement you just made..Good lord!! Maybe they are "throwing TV shows" because they realized that they have been over looking the single highest disposable incomes in the country. Billions of dollars a year that they have overlooked. OMG Gay people have money too and they watch TV?!?!? No one said you have to watch them. But you know what.. I might want to watch them...as the subject matter relates to me for a change!

And maybe it has something to do with with world shifting toward accepting homosexuality as a norm, a part of society that actually exists and has existed for as long as plant and animal have been on the earth..but from what I see here more and more this place has a long way to go. Not that anyone here is going to get this post. It will be buried in a sea of making fun.

Don't even get me started on that Man or Woman thread...ARRRRGG!!! :man:

As for this kid..like I said..he is a a spaz and really has no business being on TV..and people will watch for the "car crash" aspect of it(rubberneck) but they will lose interest and he will be gone.

[Buckyrig]

As for this kid..like I said..he is a a spaz and really has no business being on TV..and people will watch for the "car crash" aspect of it(rubberneck) but they will lose interest and he will be gone.

I think that's all it is for most of us, Cat.

Culture of idiocy.

[Justice41]

Don't blame me, you're the one that edited.
Ohh yeah. I forgot what I was rambling about a friend and I are going to do a small video about. How everything is becoming hackwork in entertainment and news.

[Justice41]

Is it me or do they seem to be throwing TV shows to gay people today?
Name a few.....

[Raven]

Name a few.....

Well those two interior decorator guys got three shows, the Queer Eye, the Canadian guy that hosts Top Model has another show. Maybe it is Canadian television, we have tons of shows hosted by gay people.

This kids being given a show because he's a Swishy Gay Monkey who'll dance for peanuts. The new Mr. Bo Jangles is gay, people.

And Cat, don't even act offended. On average, this board is as friendly to gay people as prominently gay forums are to straight people.

[Buckyrig]

bye bye

[DemolitionSamurai]

I actually agree to her to an extent. I don't think that there's any massive influx of "gay" tv shows, but for most of those out there, I don't think it does any good for homosexuals. She's right in saying that the new Mr. Bo Jangles is gay. For the most part, gays, or gay characters, don't get on television unless they fit into a ridiculous, effeminate, fashion obsessed stereotype.

[Raven]

I actually agree to her to an extent. I don't think that there's any massive influx of "gay" tv shows, but for most of those out there, I don't think it does any good for homosexuals. She's right in saying that the new Mr. Bo Jangles is gay. For the most part, gays, or gay characters, don't get on television unless they fit into a ridiculous, effeminate, fashion obsessed stereotype.

I'm a guy.

On Rogers Cable, we've got probably a dozen reality TV shows hosted by gay men.

[Cat]

Well those two interior decorator guys got three shows, the Queer Eye, the Canadian guy that hosts Top Model has another show. Maybe it is Canadian television, we have tons of shows hosted by gay people.

This kids being given a show because he's a Swishy Gay Monkey who'll dance for peanuts. The new Mr. Bo Jangles is gay, people.

And Cat, don't even act offended. On average, this board is as friendly to gay people as prominently gay forums are to straight people.
WOW..there is so much wrong with this post...

WOW Three whole shows and some hosting gigs in Canada..WE ARE TAKING OVER THE AIRWAVES..HIDE YOUR CHILDREN!

And that second statement just proved my point as to WHY I AM OFFENDED AND ANGRY...and it is not new...I am saying I am really sick of it.. I have reached my limit and I am going to let everyone know whether they want to hear it or not.

and if you would have actually READ my last paragraph you would have seen is said "seems more and more" as in ..as of late...as in becoming more common than not..as in shifting the opposite direction. And please don't tell me I can't "act offended" It is not your place. I am saying I am offended.

[The-Spirit]

I think it's great! I'm gonna have my own TV show too. I figured you for a straight arrow, Spirit. Just goes to show you, I guess.Do I have to be gay to have my own show? I think all I have to do is get some attention on Youtube. Honestly I think anybody could do it, I mean this guy basically went on Youtube and complained alot and he was so interestingly weird he got a TV show.

[spider]

Well those two interior decorator guys got three shows, the Queer Eye, the Canadian guy that hosts Top Model has another show. Maybe it is Canadian television, we have tons of shows hosted by gay people.

This kids being given a show because he's a Swishy Gay Monkey who'll dance for peanuts. The new Mr. Bo Jangles is gay, people.

And Cat, don't even act offended. On average, this board is as friendly to gay people as prominently gay forums are to straight people.

I think what she's getting at is whether someone is gay or not shouldn't even be the issue. It would be the same as me saying 'dang, lot of jews on TV lately'. That and you can't just assume someone is gay because of their lifestyle, one of my best friends is a cross dresser but he's the most hetero guy you'll ever meet.

[Troy Wall]

Behold. The new Mr. Bo Jangles is gay.

[Justice41]

Well those two interior decorator guys got three shows, the Queer Eye, the Canadian guy that hosts Top Model has another show. Maybe it is Canadian television, we have tons of shows hosted by gay people.

This kids being given a show because he's a Swishy Gay Monkey who'll dance for peanuts. The new Mr. Bo Jangles is gay, people.

And Cat, don't even act offended. On average, this board is as friendly to gay people as prominently gay forums are to straight people.
Sounds to me the so-called gay friendly tolerant folk in the entertainment biz are neither gay friendly or tolerant. All you've mentioned is Stereotypical shows. May as well have said that they have shows of blacks rapping or being criminals or Latins riding around in low riders. If you think that kind of Stereotypical casting is alright, shows something about you you may want to see someone about.

[Raven]

Sounds to me the so-called gay friendly tolerant folk in the entertainment biz are neither gay friendly or tolerant. All you've mentioned is Stereotypical shows. May as well have said that they have shows of blacks rapping or being criminals or Latins riding around in low riders. If you think that kind of Stereotypical casting is alright, shows something about you you may want to see someone about.

What the hell are you talking about???

My whole point was that they are giving these guys stereotypical shows based on nothing other than their sexual orientation!

And Cat, grow up.

[Justice41]

What the hell are you talking about???

My whole point was that they are giving these guys stereotypical shows based on nothing other than their sexual orientation!

And Cat, grow up.
"These Guys"? You do have some hostility towards,"These Guys", don't you? Quit before the hole caves in on you.
I don't think people on TV are just there because. Way to belittle achievement. Anything else you want to piss on there Lumberjack?

[JJ McKool]

How does that make them intolerant or non-friendly to teh gayz? Seriously, most people are walking stereotypes, I'm from a rural town, and guess what, we're pretty much all rednecks. Sure, some people break those boundaries of stereotypes, but many don't. It's a little thing called conforming, everybody does it. You may think you're incredibly unique, but mostly you're just a mixture of ideas already out there. We all are.

Stereotypical casting isn't bad. What the fuck is wrong with it? ESPECIALLY when you're talking about talk shows, this is just the way some people are, they're suddenly not supposed to cast them because they fit into the stereotype?

And "these guys" is supposed to mean, these particular guys. Grow up.

[Justice41]

And down the ladder steps another Trog.

[kdmelrose]

And Cat, grow up.

Wait, you say something like ...

Is it me or do they seem to be throwing TV shows to gay people today?

... then try to back it up with nonsense about Queer Eye and interior-decorating shows, and it's Cat that needs to "grow up"?

:blink:

I hear they threw Torchwood at John Barrowman all because he's gay, too ...

:sure:

[JJ McKool]

Says people who can't fix their teeth and still bow down to a fucking queen.
You did just post that did you not? Sounds to me like you've already joined us all in "stereotype land."

[Justice41]

Really? And You know about the dental care of England do you redneck? Open your ears and eyes and maybe you'll see some things aren't stereotypes but reality. Bad dental health in England is a fact. As is the Queen worship. Try again there nitz.

[Buckyrig]

"These Guys"? You do have some hostility towards,"These Guys", don't you? Quit before the hole caves in on you.

Dammit, Roy. Stop it. :laugh: :laugh:

[Justice41]

Dammit, Roy. Stop it. :laugh: :laugh:
What? We minorities got stick up for each other.

[Buckyrig]

Have you ever looked into Performance Art?

[kdmelrose]

This is performance art.

[Buckyrig]

This is performance art.

I'm sorry. Was my way too subtle? :huh:

[kdmelrose]

Yes, you're renowned for your subtlety.

[spider]

My whole point was that they are giving these guys stereotypical shows based on nothing other than their sexual orientation!


Who says? How do you know they're always gay, have you asked them?
How about that hot weathergirl you always thought was cute, she could be gay and you would never know otherwise.
"These guys" are only being given shows based on their area of expertise, just because a few people may think it's a little fruity to be knowledgable of such things, doesn't make them gay.

[JJ McKool]

Really? And You know about the dental care of England do you redneck? Open your ears and eyes and maybe you'll see somethings aren't stereotypes but reality. Bad dental health in England is a fact. As is the queen worship. Try again there nitz.
# A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
# One that is regarded as embodying or conforming to a set image or type.

Yeah, it really doesn't matter if it's based in reality or not, stereotyping is stereotyping, you can't blow off what you just said as not being a stereotype.

[Justice41]

Have you ever looked into Performance Art?
What are you on about now? Having had Friends and relatives who are gay gives you a different perspective. I like to beat up on Bullies.

[kdmelrose]

Originally Posted by Stereotype

I thought Stereotype got banned six months ago ...

:huh:

[Buckyrig]

Yes, you're renowned for your subtlety.

See? I don't know what to make of that. :laugh:

[Justice41]

Yeah, it really doesn't matter if it's based in reality or not, stereotyping is stereotyping, you can't blow off what you just said as not being a stereotype.
It's reality, prove me wrong. And stop hiding your bigotry. You're a redneck hillbilly as you stated, I don't expect you to understand then.

[Buckyrig]

What are you on about now? Having had Friends and relatives who are gay gives you a different perspective.

You'd think.

But seriously, who doesn't have a gay relative?

[Justice41]

Yes, you're renowned for your subtlety.
Buck isn't subtle, he's a thread de-railer.

[Justice41]

You'd think.

But seriously, who doesn't have a gay relative?
Don't ask me, I only speak for myself.

[Buckyrig]

Buck isn't subtle, he's a thread de-railer.

Cuz everything is so grounded in Chit-Chat. :rolleyes:

[JJ McKool]

It's reality, prove me wrong. And stop hiding your bigotry. You're a redneck hillbilly as you stated, I don't expect you to understand then.
a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices;

I'm the bigot redneck hillbilly?

[JJ McKool]

Who says? How do you know they're always gay, have you asked them?
How about that hot weathergirl you always thought was cute, she could be gay and you would never know otherwise.
"These guys" are only being given shows based on their area of expertise, just because a few people may think it's a little fruity to be knowledgable of such things, doesn't make them gay.
That's true. These guys aren't walking around saying, "I take it in the butt." They just happen to fit into a stereotype that's associated with being gay. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people on TV are gay and just don't make a big deal out of it.

[Justice41]

I'm the bigot redneck hillbilly?

How does that make them intolerant or non-friendly to teh gayz? Seriously, most people are walking stereotypes, I'm from a rural town, and guess what, we're pretty much all rednecks. Sure, some people break those boundaries of stereotypes, but many don't. It's a little thing called conforming, everybody does it. You may think you're incredibly unique, but mostly you're just a mixture of ideas already out there. We all are.

Stereotypical casting isn't bad. What the fuck is wrong with it? ESPECIALLY when you're talking about talk shows, this is just the way some people are, they're suddenly not supposed to cast them because they fit into the stereotype?

And "these guys" is supposed to mean, these particular guys. Grow up.
Don't choke eating your own words.

[JJ McKool]

Hmm. Let's examine my post.

How does that make them intolerant or non-friendly to teh gayz? Seriously, most people are walking stereotypes, I'm from a rural town, and guess what, we're pretty much all rednecks.

Notice how I said, "pretty much" implying that not all are stereotypes, but most are. As in, stereotyping is just what people are and do mostly, but it in no way implies they have to fall into the stereotype. For instance, most people in the area are conservative, I happen to fall under a mix of liberal, anarchist, or non-political, completely polar-opposite to those around me. Does that suddenly mean they aren't going to most-likely be conservative?

Sure, some people break those boundaries of stereotypes, but many don't. It's a little thing called conforming, everybody does it. You may think you're incredibly unique, but mostly you're just a mixture of ideas already out there. We all are.

That last part may have been the wrong thing to say, because while we all are going to conform in some way to those around us, it doesn't mean we conform in every way, and that even people that fit into a stereotype, aren't going to have bits about them that aren't stereotypical.

Stereotypical casting isn't bad. What the fuck is wrong with it? ESPECIALLY when you're talking about talk shows, this is just the way some people are, they're suddenly not supposed to cast them because they fit into the stereotype?

ie. The main point. These shows cast "these people" because there is a market for their overall personae, or in some cases, because they are simply good at what they do, and the flamboyance is just an extra thing. People thinking that all gay people everywhere are like that is nobody's fault but the people themselves.


Did that clear it up for ya?

[Buckyrig]

Did that clear it up for ya?

I'm gonna guess no.

[Justice41]

That hole that Raven dug seems to be filling up with more ignorant Trogs. Care to join em Buck?

[Buckyrig]

I'm not the one who derailed this thread, Roy.

Type as many words as you like, you won't alter reality. This isn't D&D.

[Cat]

My whole point was that they are giving these guys stereotypical shows based on nothing other than their sexual orientation!

And Cat, grow up.
Yea moron..it is called marketing to a neglected demographic with lots of money to spend. Is it perfect no, but it is acknowledgment of existence. The rest will follow.

you, it seems, will continue to scrape your knuckles.

[Justice41]

Hmm. Let's examine my post.



Notice how I said, "pretty much" implying that not all are stereotypes, but most are. As in, stereotyping is just what people are and do mostly, but it in no way implies they have to fall into the stereotype. For instance, most people in the area are conservative, I happen to fall under a mix of liberal, anarchist, or non-political, completely polar-opposite to those around me. Does that suddenly mean they aren't going to most-likely be conservative?



That last part may have been the wrong thing to say, because while we all are going to conform in some way to those around us, it doesn't mean we conform in every way, and that even people that fit into a stereotype, aren't going to have bits about them that aren't stereotypical.



ie. The main point. These shows cast "these people" because there is a market for their overall personae, or in some cases, because they are simply good at what they do, and the flamboyance is just an extra thing. People thinking that all gay people everywhere are like that is nobody's fault but the people themselves.


Did that clear it up for ya?
You are truly a fucked up person. Hows it feel wallowing around in your own ignorance? Jesus christ man evolve already. Then again it is kinda nice to watch someone embrace their own stupidity, it's like watching someone try to eat their own face.

[Justice41]

I'm not the one who derailed this thread, Roy.

Type as many words as you like, you won't alter reality. This isn't D&D.
You a Groo fan because you are a bit slow of mind...... :laugh: Or did you just err?

[JJ McKool]

You are truly a fucked up person. Hows it feel wallowing around in your own ignorance? Jesus christ man evolve already. Then again it is kinda nice to watch someone embrace their own stupidity, it's like watching someone try to eat their own face.
So in what magical land does "you are stupid" constitute as a valid argument point?

[kdmelrose]

Florida.

[spider]

This thread is gay.

[Buckyrig]

You a Groo fan because you are a bit slow of mind...... :laugh: Or did you just err?

Hey. Other people read this shit. :nyah:

[JJ McKool]

Yea moron..it is called marketing to a neglected demographic with lots of money to spend. Is it perfect no, but it is acknowledgment of existence. The rest will follow.

you, it seems, will continue to scrape your knuckles.
Well said.

[Justice41]

So in what magical land does "you are stupid" constitute as a valid argument point?
It allows one to dismiss another. Like I did you.

[Justice41]

Well said.
She was talking to you. :laugh: :blink:

[JJ McKool]

She was talking to you. :laugh: :blink:
I don't see how that would matter if she was, which judging from who she quoted, she wasn't.

[wisper]

Florida.


what part of Flordia?

[kdmelrose]

Orlando. It's a magic kingdom.

[wisper]

Orlando. It's a magic kingdom.


yea ...that's a safe answer...

[kdmelrose]

Safe or not, it's the answer.

[The Scribe]

Why is everyone attacking this kid because he is probably gay. Is it because it is an easy punching bag for society?!?!?

UM, the over-weight, Southerners, and Christians take a lot more heat.



The last accepted discrimination?!?! I am so sick of homosexuals being the brunt of the joke.

Um, again Christians. I'm tired of that. Where were you on this one Spirit? :whistlin:

[Buckyrig]

Are you fucking high?

Billy Graham himself has said that a Christian has to try pretty hard to be persecuted in the USA.

When wat the last time someone was dragged to their death for being a Christian in the US?

[The Scribe]

Billy Graham himself has said that a Christiand has to try pretty hard to be persecuted in the USA.


He might have been high. He's not what he use to be.

[Cat]

UM, the over-weight, Southerners, and Christians take a lot more heat.

Over-weight..yes and no..it is obscene what is said or done but it is different.. still does not make it right.

Southerners?!?! Don't buy it. And judging by what is going on in Louisiana right now..not sure you want that in your argument.

Christians...don't buy that either....that is more of dish it but can't take it. The bully finally gets pushed back and then cries about it?...sorry..I don't think so.

[The Scribe]

Over-weight..yes and no..it is obscene what is said or done but it is different.. still does not make it right.

Southerners?!?! Don't buy it. And judging by what is going on in Louisiana right now..not sure you want that in your argument.

Christians...don't buy that either....that is more of dish it but can't take it. The bully finally gets pushed back and then cries about it?...sorry..I don't think so.

I'll agree to disagree. That's all I can do.

[Justice41]

Each is a separate argument, lets not bring others down to raise others up.

[Lady_Raven]

I have to agree with cat on this one...well a few of them actually. I have been saying it for a long time gay is the new black. they can't hate blacks legally anymore so they move on to the next group. Christians bring it on themselves. I read about day after day in the newspaper. Its not the newspaper being biased its in the opinion section. these are letters written by christians themselves making the rest of us look bad. Like the other day I read an opinion article talking about how christians are superior in every way including intelligence, that made me laugh especially the next day reading about a "christian" who spent 15 grand on a tar smear on concrete that supposedly looked like jesus. Then he went on about the gay agenda. What agenda? Cat are you plotting to take over the world? I asked my friend at work who is gay the same thing. The first thing I admit though when I read "the gay agenda" was guys wearing pink camo with matching pink m16s storming the white house. terry my friend thought that was freaking hilarious. I am like Cat I am sick of hearing about how gays are ruining everything. I think there are more important things going on than someone's sexuality. Thats my 2 cents.

[Toyandgadgetguy]

Are you fucking high?

Billy Graham himself has said that a Christian has to try pretty hard to be persecuted in the USA.

When wat the last time someone was dragged to their death for being a Christian in the US?

That guy who tried calling his holiday tree a Christmas tree, dammit! Bastard!


Who cares if the kid in the video is gay? He's annoying in his video. I'm a bit tired of someone's sexual orientation being so important outside of comedy.

I guess my point is that yelling and arguing about it isn't going to change anyone's opinion. There's a better approach to be taken.

Why can't life be all Will & Grace?

[Cat]

Why can't life be all Will & Grace?
amen

[Buckyrig]

Oh God no! Those characters were soulless with the exception of Will.

Horrible people. :eek:

[Justice41]

I have to agree with cat on this one...well a few of them actually. I have been saying it for a long time gay is the new black. they can't hate blacks legally anymore so they move on to the next group. Christians bring it on themselves. I read about day after day in the newspaper. Its not the newspaper being biased its in the opinion section. these are letters written by christians themselves making the rest of us look bad. Like the other day I read an opinion article talking about how christians are superior in every way including intelligence, that made me laugh especially the next day reading about a "christian" who spent 15 grand on a tar smear on concrete that supposedly looked like jesus. Then he went on about the gay agenda. What agenda? Cat are you plotting to take over the world? I asked my friend at work who is gay the same thing. The first thing I admit though when I read "the gay agenda" was guys wearing pink camo with matching pink m16s storming the white house. terry my friend thought that was freaking hilarious. I am like Cat I am sick of hearing about how gays are ruining everything. I think there are more important things going on than someone's sexuality. Thats my 2 cents.
I love how,"the gays" have ruined South beach and Ocean Drive and Las Olas in Ft Lauderdale. It's a ghetto now don't you know, like Rodeo Drive.

[Lady_Raven]

I wouldn't know I don't travel too much. But I take it you are being sarcastic like you are most of the time though lol.

[The-Spirit]

Where were you on this one Spirit?I was working on my Comic, instead of arguing about this stupid kid Chris Crocker. He'll be history in 6 mths or maybe he'll be famous for being famous like Paris Hilton. I don't care.


Why don't you all just Leave Chris Crocker alone! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiqkDm9UoKo)

[The-Spirit]

Why can't life be all Will & Grace?Same reason it can't be like I Love Lucy, it's a TV show.

[Justice41]

I wouldn't know I don't travel too much. But I take it you are being sarcastic like you are most of the time though lol.
Very much so. Those areas were a Blight Until some home grown money decided it needed to be spent. Anyone watch Scarface and remember that scene where Pacino and crew get screwed by a drug thief and Pacino chases the guy out on the street and shoots the guy inna head. That was what South beach looked like. Las Olas was worse. Put the names in google and bask.

[Newt]

Well, this whole thread is pretty silly. I'll add a bit though: the 'gay' roles on primetime comedies on TV, at least 3 years ago when I last watched TV, are insulting and mocking of homosexuals. These roles are somewhat similar to the 'blackface' humor of several decades past, though not quite so pernicious; maybe '70's exploitation films would be a closer analogy. I think it's a societal method for trying to get over fear of a particular minority- by making them look ridiculous.

That said, so what? Ridicule is a step up from demonization, and mockery of others is the basis of most contemporary comedy. Very few groups escape mockery; it's like a rite of passage into acceptance. The only groups not open for mockery in mainstream entertainment are those that are too fearsome, or else are felt to be too weak to stand up for themselves; I think Muslims are currently viewed as belonging to both camps. Also, I seem to recall seeing more 'normalized' and rounded representations of homosexuals in TV dramas, and of course in films. So it's not so bad as all that.

[The-Spirit]

Well, this whole thread is pretty silly. I'll add a bit though: the 'gay' roles on primetime comedies on TV, at least 3 years ago when I last watched TV, are insulting and mocking of homosexuals. Really? Will and Grace, Ellen, Friends all have positive and good representation on Primetime TV of homosexuals, the dramas do as well. What were the shows that mocked them?

Going back to an earlier point.
I'll agree that Christians aren't persecuted like they are in America like they are in other countries, except on TV. I rarely if ever see a Christian portrayed positively in a comedy drama or big budget movie.

The truth is this, in reality Christians aren't persecuted in America by killing them, but they are joked about and mocked on TV and Movies, that's OK and that's pretty much the way it's supposed to be.

Also in reality Homosexuals are portrayed positively on TV and Movies but are rejected and ostracized in real life by people. This Chris Crocker guy is a showman, he's a modern Milton Berle wearing make-up and being a cross dresser for attention, he has all the attention now he'll ever need, his own TV show.

I don't pity him, if he cries more about how people make fun of him after he gets his show who will care? It's how he got into show business.

[Newt]

Really? Will and Grace, Ellen, Friends all have positive and good representation on Primetime TV of homosexuals, the dramas do as well. What were the shows that mocked them?

From what I've seen, Will and Grace's homosexual characters, Jack in particular, were shallow, oversexed, vain, flamboyant, and prissy, and showcased nearly every gay stereotype out there; Will was more restrained, but it seemed to me like a case of the writers wanting to be able to say, "Look, we have a good gay representation, too," while still being able to mine gay stereotypes for as much cheap humor as possible.

Ellen's character had already been well established before she 'came out', so her 'gayness' was not central to the reason for the character's existence.

I haven't watched much of 'Friends', so no comment there.

I can't recall specific programs, but the 'mincing gay hairdresser' seems to be a stock character used by various programs.

My point is that many of the gay characters in comedies seem to exist solely so that gay jokes may be made, which is equivalent to having a black character on a show so that racial jokes may be made; it's cheap and demeaning humor based on stereotypes rather than on characters. Either that, or they are 'feel-good' token characters meant to make the program seem more inclusive or appeal to a broader audience.

It's possible that I'm misremembering some of this, and it's possible that the situation is very different now; as I said, I've watched very little TV in the last few years.

[Newt]

Really? Will and Grace, Ellen, Friends all have positive and good representation on Primetime TV of homosexuals, the dramas do as well. What were the shows that mocked them?

Going back to an earlier point.
I'll agree that Christians aren't persecuted like they are in America like they are in other countries, except on TV. I rarely if ever see a Christian portrayed positively in a comedy drama or big budget movie.

The truth is this, in reality Christians aren't persecuted in America by killing them, but they are joked about and mocked on TV and Movies, that's OK and that's pretty much the way it's supposed to be.

Also in reality Homosexuals are portrayed positively on TV and Movies but are rejected and ostracized in real life by people. This Chris Crocker guy is a showman, he's a modern Milton Berle wearing make-up and being a cross dresser for attention, he has all the attention now he'll ever need, his own TV show.

I don't pity him, if he cries more about how people make fun of him after he gets his show who will care? It's how he got into show business.

I agree with you about Chris Cocker. Also, I don't think he's being given a show because the studio was deperately searching for a 'gay' program, but simply because he's become a sort of pop culture phenomenon which they would like to tap.

[The-Spirit]

From what I've seen, Will and Grace's homosexual characters, Jack in particular, were shallow, oversexed, vain, flamboyant, and prissy, and showcased nearly every gay stereotype out there; Will was more restrained, but it seemed to me like a case of the writers wanting to be able to say, "Look, we have a good gay representation, too," while still being able to mine gay stereotypes for as much cheap humor as possible.
I wonder why Will and Grace was such a popular show, I guess it was hetrosexuals watching the show that made it so popular. You could use these words to describe Chris Crocker shallow, vain, flamboyant, and prissy Is he a stereotype? TV comedy is like theatre, you accentuate and overdo traits of a character to get the point across, dumb characters on sitcoms are super-dumb smart ones are super-smart it stands to reason that an effeminate gay man on a TV comedy will be super-gay.
There was a time when gay characters weren't even mentioned on TV and now they're the main event, if they don't want that over the top kind of representation then they need to squash people like Liberace and Richard Simmons as soon as they started and tell them to tone it down.

[Raven]

I wonder why Will and Grace was such a popular show, I guess it was hetrosexuals watching the show that made it so popular. You could use these words to describe Chris Crocker shallow, vain, flamboyant, and prissy Is he a stereotype? TV comedy is like theatre, you accentuate and overdo traits of a character to get the point across, dumb characters on sitcoms are super-dumb smart ones are super-smart it stands to reason that an effeminate gay man on a TV comedy will be super-gay.
There was a time when gay characters weren't even mentioned on TV and now they're the main event, if they don't want that over the top kind of representation then they need to squash people like Liberace and Richard Simmons as soon as they started and tell them to tone it down.

Tone it down??? Have you ever been to a gay club? That's how 90% of the gay guys under 20 act. It's exactly like the gangster attitude in the black community. Not all of them are like that, but calling it a stereotype makes it sound like there are only a few of them, when it is the opposite.

There are very, very few gay rolemodels who aren't like like Liberace was.

[kdmelrose]

Oh, good lord.

:yawn:

[Newt]

I wonder why Will and Grace was such a popular show, I guess it was hetrosexuals watching the show that made it so popular.
Probably.
You could use these words to describe Chris Crocker shallow, vain, flamboyant, and prissy Is he a stereotype?
Yes, in part; the stereotypically gay part of his act is what got this thread so overheated.
TV comedy is like theatre, you accentuate and overdo traits of a character to get the point across, dumb characters on sitcoms are super-dumb smart ones are super-smart it stands to reason that an effeminate gay man on a TV comedy will be super-gay.
Yes, BUT there is a difference between a 'gay character' and a 'character who is gay', and there are (or were) far more of the former in primetime comedy in my experience.
There was a time when gay characters weren't even mentioned on TV and now they're the main event...
Yes, I said something similar in my original post.
if they don't want that over the top kind of representation then they need to squash people like Liberace and Richard Simmons as soon as they started and tell them to tone it down.
Liberace and Simmons were not 'gay characters', they were performers who happened to be flamboyant; their acts and their value as entertainers (or whatever you would call Mr. Simmons) did not revolve around their flamboyance or 'gayness'. Is Richard Simmons even gay? I've only ever heard that as a joke, or as a 'Well, obviously, look at him," sort of comment.

Producers of entertainment should not be afraid to depict flamboyant gays any more than they should be afraid to depict a black man eating fried chicken or a hillbilly with a drinking problem; that's not what I was getting at. My point was that stereotypes about gays are the primary focus of most comedy programs dealing with the topic, and that's silly. It seems like just having a character act 'gay' is enough for a laugh; there doesn't even have to be a joke. This is where the parallel to blackface comes in; the characters in minstrel shows didn't have to make jokes, they just had to move and talk like stereotypical blacks to crack the audience up.

[Mike225]

Tone it down??? Have you ever been to a gay club? That's how 90% of the gay guys under 20 act. It's exactly like the gangster attitude in the black community. Not all of them are like that, but calling it a stereotype makes it sound like there are only a few of them, when it is the opposite.

There are very, very few gay rolemodels who aren't like like Liberace was.I'm pretty fucking sure you don't know who 90% of the gay population are.

[Buckyrig]

Oh, good lord.

:yawn:

I was gonna. And then I chose not to.

Something's wrong with the Universe.

[kdmelrose]

I suppose I should admire that he doesn't limit his asinine comments to one topic. He's a bit of a renaissance man in that respect.

[Cat]

Tone it down??? Have you ever been to a gay club? That's how 90% of the gay guys under 20 act. It's exactly like the gangster attitude in the black community. Not all of them are like that, but calling it a stereotype makes it sound like there are only a few of them, when it is the opposite.

There are very, very few gay rolemodels who aren't like like Liberace was.
OK. thats twice..first it was that you know all about gay message boards and now you claim to know all about the culture of gay night clubs...is there a pattern that anyone else is seeing?

Oh and I second kd..OH LORD!

how are those knuckles holding up?

[Buckyrig]

Wait. What happened? I had to leave for a minute to clean some cannoli cream off my pinky ring.

[Newt]

Yee-haw!

[Justice41]

I suppose I should admire that he doesn't limit his asinine comments to one topic. He's a bit of a renaissance man in that respect.
The kids encroaching on my area of absurdity, but he means or believes it.

[Newt]

The kids encroaching on my area of absurdity, but he means or believes it.

You don't mean all the things you say on the Chit-chat boards? :eek:

My world is crumbling!

[Justice41]

You don't mean all the things you say on the Chit-chat boards? :eek:

My world is crumbling!
No not really, I just like to start fights..... I thought you knew that brainiac? Asshole.































:har:

[spider]

to depict a black man eating fried chicken.

I see this a lot in black humor but never understand where it comes from, perhaps it's just the US but when you go to anywhere here with a larger black community you don't see them in KFC anymore than anyone else.

Like you've said about racial humor in the 50's, it may be another 20 years before homosexuality is accepted in mainstream media and they're not there for the sole reason of being gay.

[Newt]

No not really, I just like to start fights..... I thought you knew that brainiac? Asshole.

You big meanie! :cry: :laugh:

[Newt]

I see this a lot in black humor but never understand where it comes from, perhaps it's just the US but when you go to anywhere here with a larger black community you don't see them in KFC anymore than anyone else.

I have no evidence, but my suspicion is that this particular stereotype began in the north. All the foods that blacks are stereotypically supposed to love, e.g. fried chicken (or fried anything, really), greens, okra, grits, chitterlings, watermelon, etc. are typical southern favorites that all southern country folk, white or black, enjoy. Northern whites, in the days when Southern blacks first started moving up north in large numbers, may have seen blacks cooking and eating all these southern dishes and thought of them as 'black' dishes. I don't know if this is correct, but it makes sense to me.

[The-Spirit]

Have you ever been to a gay club? No.

[The-Spirit]

Is Richard Simmons even gay?I think so.

But when he comes out I want to reserve the comment that David Prowse said about Liberace when he was outed: You could've knocked me over with a feather Boa.

[The Scribe]

Is Richard Simmons even gay?


http://www3.telus.net/planetkevin/files/ForumPics/gay_thread.jpg


:har:

[Buckyrig]

That oughtta just about do it.

[Justice41]

You big meanie! :cry: :laugh:
Hey you forgot the smilie.Putz.

[Newt]

Hey you forgot the smilie.Putz.

No space between sentences- you're getting the doboy1-itis! :nyah:

[Scott James]

I have been breezing in and out of this thread and was not really interested until British dental care was brought up - it's not that it's bad (the standard of medicine is actually quite good) it's just that the British don't like to smile.

Oh and incidentally, yes I do have bad teeth.

[The-Spirit]

But you're ginchy! :)

[Scott James]

But you're ginchy! :)
You know it...

http://kyla.moondrummer.com/fonzie.jpg

[Justice41]

No

































space between sentences- you're getting the doboy1-itis! :nyah:
You can edit the quotes you know. Everyone does it.

[The Scribe]

Oh and incidentally, yes I do have bad teeth.

http://www.rightblueeye.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/HillbillyTeeth.jpg

[Newt]

You can edit the quotes you know. Everyone does it.

Not me. I'm too honest.

[Scott James]

http://www.rightblueeye.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/HillbillyTeeth.jpgWell, perhaps not that bad... :rolleyes:

But they are kind of crooked (I never had braces fitted) and yellowish from smoking for the last fifteen years.

I'm due a filling but have not been to the dentist in years.

[Newt]

http://www.rightblueeye.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/HillbillyTeeth.jpg

Those are sold in vending machines as 'hillbilly teeth'. Now I know some hillbillies, and while many of them are missing more teeth than a person of their age ought to be, I haven't seen any whose teeth just grew in with spaces in between them, which is what the little prosthesis looks like. Someone ought to complain to the manufacturer.

[spider]

To me going to the dentist is like going to a con for a critique, beauty pagent or American idol audition, besides brushing them theres not a damn lot you can do about having shitty teeth.

[Justice41]

To me going to the dentist is like going to a con for a critique, beauty pagent or American idol audition, besides brushing them theres not a damn lot you can do about having shitty teeth.
Braces. Even little Tommy cruise has braces on.

[Justice41]

Not me. I'm too honest.
There ya go,, now ya got the hang of it. Now go play.

[JJ McKool]

Braces. Even little Tommy cruise has braces on.
Yeah, there are actually quite a few positive things you can do. There's brushing, flossing, mouthwash, that you can do yourself. You can also go and get things like your cavities filled, veneers, root canal if you need it, a cap to cover up the black tooth, proper false teeth, etc. Most stuff is pretty cosmetic though.

[spider]

But there is also a natural yellowish tint that is quite common and I'm insanely jealous of anyone with perfectly white teeth.

[Justice41]

Gargle with hydrogen peroxide in the morn and rinse with listerine. The listerine cuts the acid. In about a week your teeth will be whiter and your gums and tongue will be slightly acid burned but it's worth it.

[Raven]

I have to agree with cat on this one...well a few of them actually. I have been saying it for a long time gay is the new black. they can't hate blacks legally anymore so they move on to the next group. I think there are more important things going on than someone's sexuality. Thats my 2 cents.

I've never had a problem with gay people.
I have a problem with the blurring of the line between racial, religious, cultural and sexual differences. It is the gay community who is flaunting their sexuality, do you expect people to ignore it?

Race and color, religion and culture, should be protected by law and enforced. A sexual lifestyle should not be.

The definition of being gay is having sex with the same sex. That is all. A guy who doesn't ever sleep with men, no matter how flamboyant or prissy he is, is not gay. Gay is not a culture, religion or skin color. Two men can love each other and live together as brothers and not be gay, because they aren't having sex with each other. So I accept gay people, but everything else, the behaviour that this Britney kid seems to portray, I can't stand that. THAT is what bothers people about the gay community, that is what people are angry about.
I keep my sexual preferences private, why can't they do the same? Why do they get to be loud and proud about it when their are other sexual minorities who are just fine with being on the sidelines and keeping it to themselves??

I don't want to listen to a guy tell me about his sex life, whether he is gay or straight. But if I tell the gay guy to shut up, I'm labelled anti-gay. Just keep it to yourself.

[Buckyrig]

Gargle with hydrogen peroxide in the morn and rinse with listerine. The listerine cuts the acid. In about a week your teeth will be whiter and your gums and tongue will be slightly acid burned but it's worth it.

Urine works too.

[Justice41]

I've never had a problem with gay people.
I have a problem with the blurring of the line between racial, religious, cultural and sexual differences. It is the gay community who is flaunting their sexuality, do you expect people to ignore it?

Race and color, religion and culture, should be protected by law and enforced. A sexual lifestyle should not be.

The definition of being gay is having sex with the same sex. That is all. A guy who doesn't ever sleep with men, no matter how flamboyant or prissy he is, is not gay. Gay is not a culture, religion or skin color. Two men can love each other and live together as brothers and not be gay, because they aren't having sex with each other. So I accept gay people, but everything else, the behaviour that this Britney kid seems to portray, I can't stand that. THAT is what bothers people about the gay community, that is what people are angry about.
I keep my sexual preferences private, why can't they do the same? Why do they get to be loud and proud about it when their are other sexual minorities who are just fine with being on the sidelines and keeping it to themselves??

I don't want to listen to a guy tell me about his sex life, whether he is gay or straight. But if I tell the gay guy to shut up, I'm labelled anti-gay. Just keep it to yourself.

You act as if someone is forcing you at gun point to watch this kid or anyone else. Just tune it out.
If you choose to listen or watch then you have no one to blame but yourself. Sounds like you're just looking for something to be pissed about.

[Justice41]

Urine works too.
Ooooookkkkayyyy..........Glad to see you coming out of the closet and especially in this thread... Golden Showers for everyone.

[Buckyrig]

Ooooookkkkayyyy..........Glad to see you coming out of the closet and especially in this thread... Golden Showers for everyone.

White teeth were at one point looked down upon because it indicated just this very proclivity.

That is all...enjoy your meals.

[Raven]

You act as if someone is forcing you at gun point to watch this kid or anyone else. Just tune it out.
If you choose to listen or watch then you have no one to blame but yourself. Sounds like you're just looking for something to be pissed about.

Yeah, I am aware of that.

I was pointing out however that when given an option, when I choose to ignore or tune it out, I take heat from people. It's not enough to tolerate, you have to embrace gay culture or your considered some kind of ignorant hick.

I don't need to look for something to be pissed about, I live every day in perpetual rage at the world. :)

[kdmelrose]

It is the gay community who is flaunting their sexuality, do you expect people to ignore it?

Like the "straight community" flaunts its sexuality?

:sure:

Race and color, religion and culture, should be protected by law and enforced. A sexual lifestyle should not be.

Ugh. Wait, how did this conversation make the leap to equal protection under the law?

The definition of being gay is having sex with the same sex. That is all. A guy who doesn't ever sleep with men, no matter how flamboyant or prissy he is, is not gay.

Therefore, a heterosexual who never sleeps with someone of the opposite sex isn't actually a heterosexual?

:blink:

Two men can love each other and live together as brothers and not be gay, because they aren't having sex with each other.

That would be a platonic relationship. Any gender or sexual orientation can have one of those.

So I accept gay people, but everything else, the behaviour that this Britney kid seems to portray, I can't stand that. THAT is what bothers people about the gay community, that is what people are angry about.

No, that seems to be what you are angry about. It's that guy who's acting a certain way -- a way that you seem to find objectionable -- not an entire "community," or an entire orientation. Yet, based on stereotypes, and on your prejudices and hangups, you're tarring with a very broad brush. No, you've "never had a problem with gay people."

I keep my sexual preferences private, why can't they do the same?

No, you don't. Ignoring society's presumption of heterosexual as the "default" orientation, you've posted on your blog about the birth of your child, and you've complained (http://comicbookvillain.blogspot.com/2007/06/controversy-and-community.html) about gay comic fans. You're letting your hetero flag fly.

Why do they get to be loud and proud about it when their are other sexual minorities who are just fine with being on the sidelines and keeping it to themselves??

So, gays shouldn't be seen or heard? Yeah, no problem with gay people at all ... as long as they follow your rules. And stay quiet.

[Justice41]

Like the "straight community" flaunts its sexuality?

:sure:



Ugh. Wait, how did this conversation make the leap to equal protection under the law?



Therefore, a heterosexual who never sleeps with someone of the opposite sex isn't actually a heterosexual?

:blink:



That would be a platonic relationship. Any gender or sexual orientation can have one of those.



No, that seems to be what you are angry about. It's that guy who's acting a certain way -- a way that you seem to find objectionable -- not an entire "community," or an entire orientation. Yet, based on stereotypes, and on your prejudices and hangups, you're tarring with a very broad brush. No, you've "never had a problem with gay people."



No, you don't. Ignoring society's presumption of heterosexual as the "default" orientation, you've posted on your blog about the birth of your child, and you've complained (http://comicbookvillain.blogspot.com/2007/06/controversy-and-community.html) about gay comic fans. You're letting your hetero flag fly.



So, gays shouldn't be seen or heard? Yeah, no problem with gay people at all ... as long as they follow your rules. And stay quiet.
Sounds like a Good Liberal to Me KD. Why you two libs fighting? :laugh:

[Cat]

Sounds like a Good Liberal to Me KD. Why you two libs fighting? :laugh:
actually KD just saved me the trouble ...

I will just add this

Yeah, I am aware of that.

I was pointing out however that when given an option, when I choose to ignore or tune it out, I take heat from people. It's not enough to tolerate, you have to embrace gay culture or your considered some kind of ignorant hick.

I don't need to look for something to be pissed about, I live every day in perpetual rage at the world.

Yea its called equality. No one is ever looking just to be tolerated..Tolerance is not equality. Tolerance still says, I am better than you but I will put up with it because I have too. And from everything you have said here in this thread...you are ignorant.

I am guessing your knuckles are skinned to the bone at this point.

[RandallFlagg]

Never saw the big deal about sexuality myself. Honestly, if someone who is against homosexuals can tell me why it's such a big deal, that would be great.

[Cat]

Never saw the big deal about sexuality myself. Honestly, if someone who is against homosexuals can tell me why it's such a big deal, that would be great.

I conquer..AND if it can be done without bringing in the Bible I will be impressed.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Aw jeez, that creature is a fellow Tennessean. I'm so ashamed.


Aw jeez, that creature is a fellow earthling. I'm so ashamed.

[Justice41]

actually KD just saved me the trouble ...

I will just add this



Yea its called equality. No one is ever looking just to be tolerated..Tolerance is not equality. Tolerance still says, I am better than you but I will put up with it because I have too. And from everything you have said here in this thread...you are ignorant.

I am guessing your knuckles are skinned to the bone at this point.
Thank you for that definition of Tolerance. It seems a lot of people believe tolerance to be a good thing. I've never liked being Tolerated, don't have to accept either, just recognize that they's just folks. That's all, just people trying to live.

[kdmelrose]

Oh, you're tolerated ...

:sure:


:p

[Justice41]

Oh, you're tolerated ...

:sure:


:p
Bah!!!!! :laugh:

[Raven]

Look, all I am saying is that we are all the same.

Who you decide to have sex with doesn't factor into how you should be treated, other than the basic fact that treating people fairly makes people treat you fairly.

Heterosexual society is sort of repressed isn't it?

No one said gays should be quiet. But its a little too "in your face" at this point, I think. I don't want to know what other people get up to in their personal sex lives.

Sure, I post stuff on my blog but I don't go posting it everywhere else, expecting other people to agree with me.

KD, I am not saying I am right, I am saying this is my opinion, and although you seem to argue with my opinion, you aren't saying anything other than countering what I say.

Name some positive gay role models who aren't of the "flamboyant" type. People who have accomplished something without relying on their sexual orientation to get them a TV show. There needs to more.

It's just sex. I don't think it means you should be treated as a different culture. But I don't feel it is people like me making them a different culture, I believe that they WANT to be treated more than equal. Homosexuality has been around forever. It wasn't until the gay community started asking for specific laws and social institutions to recognize them that any problems started.

CAT: There is no such thing as equality. Tolerance is the best you can hope for, don't pretend you don't think you are more enlightened than me, your little comments prove otherwise. But you tolerate what I post, no? If you were the moderator, you might have the power to do otherwise and that would be your perogative. I've never been a supporter of forcing people to like other people.

[The-Spirit]

I don't see anyone tolerating or embracing my Christianity, or being a republican or a conservative. Does that mean I shouldn't tolerate them? I have to, even though I don't receive it from them.

I think tolerance should work both ways, but embracing something I don't agree with that's asking too much unless you can show me you're doing the same to me.

[RandallFlagg]

Name some positive gay role models who aren't of the "flamboyant" type. People who have accomplished something without relying on their sexual orientation to get them a TV show. There needs to more.
Rock Hudson, Robert Reed, Neil Patrick Harris, George Takei (when he was on Star Trek, he wasn't out yet), Richard Chamberlain, etc.

[Mike225]

Rock Hudson, Robert Reed, Neil Patrick Harris, George Takei (when he was on Star Trek, he wasn't out yet), Richard Chamberlain, etc.Keanu Reeves, Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman..

[kdmelrose]

I don't see anyone tolerating or embracing my Christianity, or being a republican or a conservative. Does that mean I shouldn't tolerate them? I have to, even though I don't receive it from them.

Seeing as how a majority of people in the United States identify as Christian, and that the government is headed by a Christian Republican (you can argue his conservatism), I think you can consider yourself properly embraced.

[hardinart]

Fucking weak. Pyscho emo chick gets a developmental deal. What's next, Paris for president?
How could that be worse than what we have now???

[The-Spirit]

Seeing as how a majority of people in the United States identify as Christian, and that the government is headed by a Christian Republican (you can argue his conservatism), I think you can consider yourself properly embraced.
Then all embracing means is to be acknowledged by a large group of people who agree with you? Then Homosexuals are embraced by Hollywood in the majority of the movies and TV shows. I guess everyone should be happy then.

I thought it meant being accepted by the people who don't agree with you like Homosexuals being accepted by straights or vice versa.

[Toyandgadgetguy]

Therefore, a heterosexual who never sleeps with someone of the opposite sex isn't actually a heterosexual?

:blink:





Wouldn't that make them 'heterosexually inclined'?









:nyah:

[Cat]

Look, all I am saying is that we are all the same.

Who you decide to have sex with doesn't factor into how you should be treated, other than the basic fact that treating people fairly makes people treat you fairly.You're right..it shouldn't..but it does.

Heterosexual society is sort of repressed isn't it? LOL...yea right..from the time you are born...how many times are little boys asked.."do you have a little girlfriend"" or little girls asked "do you have a little boyfriend?" Or do mothers and fathers talk about ..."when you get married ..." It is SO ingrained in society that girls go with boys and heaven forbid any other combination. Heterosexuality repressed..that is a riot. Turn on a TV, Read a book, 99.9999999999999999% IS Heterosexual! And it is shoved in MY face everyday that this is how it should be!

No one said gays should be quiet. But its a little too "in your face" at this point, I think. I don't want to know what other people get up to in their personal sex lives.


actually you said it in your last post..but whatever.

Sure, I post stuff on my blog but I don't go posting it everywhere else, expecting other people to agree with me.Who is posting everywhere? We are in one thread on one website.

KD, I am not saying I am right, I am saying this is my opinion, and although you seem to argue with my opinion, you aren't saying anything other than countering what I say.

Actually I think he did.


Name some positive gay role models who aren't of the "flamboyant" type. People who have accomplished something without relying on their sexual orientation to get them a TV show. There needs to more.

Billie Jean King, Tennessee Williams, Michaelangelo, Greg Louganis, Gertrude Stein, Walt Whitman, Frederick the Great, Frank Schubert, James Dean, Rock Hudson, Socrates...

It's just sex. I don't think it means you should be treated as a different culture. But I don't feel it is people like me making them a different culture, I believe that they WANT to be treated more than equal. Homosexuality has been around forever. It wasn't until the gay community started asking for specific laws and social institutions to recognize them that any problems started.

You mean specific laws like..Removing Sodomy laws from the books, Amending Hate Crime Laws to include protection of homosexuals, Overturning laws that allow employers to fire someone based solely on their sexual orientation, Changing laws that would allow a partner to be recognized by a hospital as a part of the immediate family and allowing them to make decisions on the health care of their loved one, or is the one that gets you the most the recognition of a legal union that gets under your skin.

I love how people who will never walk in these shoes feel they know better than the ones who do. Have you ever been fired for who you you would prefer to date? I have. Have you ever been beaten or threatened because of who you would prefer to date? I have. Have you ever been turned away in a medical emergency for a partner of 14 years in favor of the immediate family? I have.

CAT: There is no such thing as equality. Tolerance is the best you can hope for, don't pretend you don't think you are more enlightened than me, your little comments prove otherwise. But you tolerate what I post, no? If you were the moderator, you might have the power to do otherwise and that would be your perogative. I've never been a supporter of forcing people to like other people.

I am so sad that you may actually have to acknowledge the existence of people who are not like you. You must live in a sad world...So in your world women will never be equal, blacks will never be equal, along with other minorities, as long as the white heterosexual Christian male has anything to say about it. And if the best you can do is tolerate then I am sad for you.

[The-Spirit]

Wouldn't that make them 'heterosexually inclined'?
We call 'em Virgins.

[kdmelrose]

Name some positive gay role models who aren't of the "flamboyant" type. People who have accomplished something without relying on their sexual orientation to get them a TV show. There needs to more.

I'm not sure what your point is here, particularly considering you've shifted from, "Is it me or do they seem to be throwing TV shows to gay people today?" to a screed against "flamboyant" gays to a question of "positive gay role models."

But if you're looking for "non-flamboyant" gays on television, there are plenty of them: John Barrowman, Chad Allen, Dan Butler, Simon Callow, Guillermo Díaz, Rupert Everett, Neil Patrick Harris, Randy Harrison, T.R. Knight, Eric Millegan, Anthony Rapp, etc., etc.

Who you decide to have sex with doesn't factor into how you should be treated, other than the basic fact that treating people fairly makes people treat you fairly.

If treating people fairly magically led to people treating you fairly, the world would be a much better place.

No one said gays should be quiet. But its a little too "in your face" at this point, I think. I don't want to know what other people get up to in their personal sex lives.

You're essentially contradicting yourself here. Don't be quiet, just don't be so loud.

Sure, I post stuff on my blog but I don't go posting it everywhere else, expecting other people to agree with me.

Your blog is just as public as YouTube, where the guy this thread originally was about posted his video. The only difference is the amount of traffic.

KD, I am not saying I am right, I am saying this is my opinion, and although you seem to argue with my opinion, you aren't saying anything other than countering what I say.

I've pointed out flaws in your logic, such that it is. But as you're not arguing from fact, the only thing I can do is point out those flaws, and how wrong-headed I think your opinion is.

It's just sex. I don't think it means you should be treated as a different culture. But I don't feel it is people like me making them a different culture, I believe that they WANT to be treated more than equal. Homosexuality has been around forever. It wasn't until the gay community started asking for specific laws and social institutions to recognize them that any problems started.

I don't see anyone asking for them to be more than equal, but even in your above statement, you imply that they should be less than equal. If those pesky gays hadn't gotten so uppity things would've been dandy!

[kdmelrose]

Then all embracing means is to be acknowledged by a large group of people who agree with you? Then Homosexuals are embraced by Hollywood in the majority of the movies and TV shows. I guess everyone should be happy then.

Considering you're comparing government with the entertainment industry, then no.

I thought it meant being accepted by the people who don't agree with you like Homosexuals being accepted by straights or vice versa.

I don't agree with you on most issues, and I accept that. Is that the kind of acceptance you're looking for? In your mind, what qualifies as acceptance?

[The-Spirit]

I am so sad that you may actually have to acknowledge the existence of people who are not like you. You must live in a sad world...So in your world women will never be equal, blacks will never be equal, along with other minorities, as long as the white heterosexual Christian male has anything to say about it. And if the best you can do is tolerate then I am sad for you.
Why do you put Blacks, Women, and Homosexuals together? Isn't it possible that some people could disagree with homosexuality as a idea and still tolerate them but not be bigoted against blacks and women? Even white heterosexual Christian males?

Do you embrace the white heterosexual Christian male? If you don't you are doing the same thing you accuse others of doing.

I definitely embrace Blacks and Women but I only tolerate homosexuality, that means although I don't agree with it I'm not going to take action against them or upset their pursuit of living their lives the way they want to.

[JJ McKool]

Look, all I am saying is that we are all the same.

Who you decide to have sex with doesn't factor into how you should be treated, other than the basic fact that treating people fairly makes people treat you fairly.

Heterosexual society is sort of repressed isn't it?

No one said gays should be quiet. But its a little too "in your face" at this point, I think. I don't want to know what other people get up to in their personal sex lives.

Sure, I post stuff on my blog but I don't go posting it everywhere else, expecting other people to agree with me.

KD, I am not saying I am right, I am saying this is my opinion, and although you seem to argue with my opinion, you aren't saying anything other than countering what I say.

Name some positive gay role models who aren't of the "flamboyant" type. People who have accomplished something without relying on their sexual orientation to get them a TV show. There needs to more.

It's just sex. I don't think it means you should be treated as a different culture. But I don't feel it is people like me making them a different culture, I believe that they WANT to be treated more than equal. Homosexuality has been around forever. It wasn't until the gay community started asking for specific laws and social institutions to recognize them that any problems started.

With the case of "gay culture," in the last couple centuries it has been treated as it's own thing because it has actually been it's own thing. It only really got recognition in the 60s or so, but there were all sorts of underground movements before that, with many "gays" rejecting heterosexual society as a whole, seriously believing that they were completely different. I think much of the reason gays are associated with things like fashion, cuisine, and theater, is because that's where they could originally have an affect in predominately straight cultures of the past. These types of things had such high-class, that if you were involved in them, likely you had a lot of money, class and presence so people sort of looked past your being gay. That's just a hypothesis, I don't have enough knowledge to say that with real confidence.

But besides that, some positive gay role models? Well, Rob Halford of Judas Priest for one, when he came out, nobody gave a shit, they still liked Judas Priest or they still didn't. I'm sure there are a lot of others too.

Oh, and past views of being gay were much different. Until recently, homosexuality was an unknown idea. You were supposed to be defined by what you did, not your feelings. The idea that you could be a murderer from birth doesn't really make sense does it?

[The Dag]

i didnt know James Dean was gay.. learn something new..

[MattWaterman]

Do you embrace the white heterosexual Christian male? If you don't you are doing the same thing you accuse others of doing.



Far be it for me to jump in here, but I think the key difference is choice. One of my best friends is a deacon who chooses to believe salvation lies in the belief in Christ; I choose not to. On the other hand, a different good friend is gay with no choice in the matter.

Just point the apples-to-oranges nature of that there...

[MattWaterman]

i didnt know James Dean was gay.. learn something new..

I could be wrong but I believe there's a little dispute there. He was into the BDSM scene (known as "the human ash tray" in some Hollywood circles) and sexuality in general can shift a lot there. For more clarification on what is and isn't gay, please consult King Missle's, Gay or Not Gay.

:har:

[The-Spirit]

I don't agree with you on most issues, and I accept that. Is that the kind of acceptance you're looking for? In your mind, what qualifies as acceptance?I'm not looking for any. I was talking about the kind of Embracing Cat was talking about. According to what she was saying Homosexuals should not only be tolerated by those who disagree with them but embracing them. My point is that I'm a white heterosexual Christian male and democrats, non-christians don't tolerate or embrace me, but I don't care.

I guess I accept homosexuals the same way you do me, I don't agree with them but I tolerate them, and I accept that .

[JJ McKool]

Far be it for me to jump in here, but I think the key difference is choice. One of my best friends is a deacon who chooses to believe salvation lies in the belief in Christ; I choose not to. On the other hand, a different good friend is gay with no choice in the matter.

Just point the apples-to-oranges nature of that there...
More-or-less, yeah. I won't deny that some people likely have thoughts or feelings of a "gay manner," but whether or not they have sex with someone of the same gender is still their choice, just the same way some "straight" people choose to abstain from sex either until marriage or for their whole life.

[The-Spirit]

Far be it for me to jump in here, but I think the key difference is choice. One of my best friends is a deacon who chooses to believe salvation lies in the belief in Christ; I choose not to. On the other hand, a different good friend is gay with no choice in the matter.

Just point the apples-to-oranges nature of that there...We're not talking about how or why people become who they are, we're talking about how others who don't share that viewpoint accept tolerate and embrace that person or group. It's not fair for me to ask a homosexual to be straight or act straight for me to accept him any more than it's fair for them to ask me to not believe what i do.

[Newt]

I could be wrong but I believe there's a little dispute there. He was into the BDSM scene (known as "the human ash tray" in some Hollywood circles) and sexuality in general can shift a lot there. For more clarification on what is and isn't gay, please consult King Missle's, Gay or Not Gay.

:har:

Socrates was not gay either, though it's a common misconception; I think he was just attached to homosexuality as 'a famous ancient Greek'. He was in fact noted by his contemporaries for his intense interest in young women, and his ability to seduce them despite being rather unattractive. He did make comments on the beauty of young men, but these were not particularly sexual in tone.

[The Dag]

Socrates was not gay either, though it's a common misconception; I think he was just attached to homosexuality as 'a famous ancient Greek'. He was in fact noted by his contemporaries for his intense interest in young women, and his ability to seduce them despite being rather unattractive. He did make comments on the beauty of young men, but these were not particularly sexual in tone.

i looked it up....he fucked men and women...so hes bi...

[Newt]

i looked it up....he fucked men and women...so hes bi...

Looked it up where? I've read most of the Dialogues, and he doesn't say anything about having sex with men that I can recall.

[Buckyrig]

Assuming he actually existed. :whistlin:

[MattWaterman]

We're not talking about how or why people become who they are, we're talking about how others who don't share that viewpoint accept tolerate and embrace that person or group. It's not fair for me to ask a homosexual to be straight or act straight for me to accept him any more than it's fair for them to ask me to not believe what i do.

Again, though...apples and oranges. When people differ opinions with you they're not telling you that you can't be Christian---they're just stating a dissimilar opinion. But there is no opinion involved in being gay---it's an area out of human choice.

To attack this another way: You and Kep! could argue all day long, every day of the week about Christian theology and each could bring up opposing points of view. But, on the other hand, if Cat says she's gay....there is no opposing viewpoint. She is; end of story. That's where your tacit analogy about your GOP/Christianity equaling homosexuality falls apart, IMO...

[FA]

If it's good enough for Doogie Howser, it's good enough for the father of western philosophy.

[The Dag]

Looked it up where? I've read most of the Dialogues, and he doesn't say anything about having sex with men that I can recall.

he didnt say he fucked women.... whats your point???

[Buckyrig]

I'm not looking for any. I was talking about the kind of Embracing Cat was talking about. According to what she was saying Homosexuals should not only be tolerated by those who disagree with them but embracing them. My point is that I'm a white heterosexual Christian male and democrats, non-christians don't tolerate or embrace me, but I don't care.

The problem here is that you're co-mingling religion and politics. If you take your faith into the public arena - which is your right and makes sense since it would be the basis for many of your beliefs - people are going to disagree with you and fight to make sure their policies are enacted instead of yours. That's not a rejection of you as a Christian, that's a rejection of your ideas as a politically active citizen.

What legislation exactly do you feel limits your ability to practice your faith?


Also...there are plenty of Christian democrats...Clinton and Carter come immediately to mind. :p

[Newt]

he didnt say he fucked women.... whats your point???

Yeah, he did. Or at least Plato said he did, and that's the best we can get.

[Newt]

If it's good enough for Doogie Howser, it's good enough for the father of western philosophy.

I'm not trying to reclaim Socrates, I'm just striving for historical accuracy.

Poor old Neil; no matter how many roles he gets, he's always 'Doogie Howser, M.D.' :laugh: Oh well, at least he's still getting roles.

[kdmelrose]

Yeah, he did. Or at least Plato said he did, and that's the best we can get.

I think one of you is talking about James Dean, and the other about Socrates (further complicated by "Plato," which was Sal Mineo's character in Rebel Without a Cause).

Or am I the one who's confused?

:blink:

[MattWaterman]

James Dean = submissive
Socrates = generally horny


Does that help?

[Justice41]

How could that be worse than what we have now???
Word o advice Chad...... these things get quite heated and personal... unless you want your persona to be tainted I'd leave the chats alone.... Just a warning mind you... ;)

[Buckyrig]

You make it sound like there's lube involved. :blink:

[Newt]

You make it sound like there's lube involved. :blink:

Would it be better if there were no lube? :confused:

[Justice41]

Then all embracing means is to be acknowledged by a large group of people who agree with you? Then Homosexuals are embraced by Hollywood in the majority of the movies and TV shows. I guess everyone should be happy then.

I thought it meant being accepted by the people who don't agree with you like Homosexuals being accepted by straights or vice versa.
See this is why I said not acceptance or Tolerance. Recognition is the proper word.

[Buckyrig]

Quick question...not really important... :laugh:


Uh...is this kid even gay?

[Newt]

Maybe!

[Buckyrig]

Based on?...

[Newt]

Stereotypes!

[kdmelrose]

He talks about his boyfriend in at least on his other videos.

[FA]

I'm not trying to reclaim Socrates, I'm just striving for historical accuracy.

'Socrates' and 'historical accuracy' are awkward bedfellows.



What do you think? Too obvious a setup? :rolleyes:

[Buckyrig]

He talks about his boyfriend in at least on his other videos.

Wait...you actually watched them? :blink:

How bored are you?

[Newt]

That'll do it, then.

[kdmelrose]

Wait...you actually watched them? :blink:

How bored are you?

I skimmed through a few, just to see if he's as bat-shit insane as he seems.

He is.

[Newt]

'Socrates' and 'historical accuracy' are awkward bedfellows.



What do you think? Too obvious a setup? :rolleyes:

Next week: was Moses really a Hebrew?

[DemolitionSamurai]

But there is no opinion involved in being gay---it's an area out of human choice.

http://www.queerbychoice.com/gaygenelinks.html


And an interesting article I found while looking for that: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/gay-by-choice.html.

[Buckyrig]

I skimmed through a few, just to see if he's as bat-shit insane as he seems.

He is.

Maybe he's just trying to be cool to get in good with Hollywood and have a better life than a straight guy would.

[MattWaterman]

(I love Mother Jones. I could survive on that and Harper's for the rest of my life...)

[Buckyrig]

What the holy fuck are you talking about?

[The-Spirit]

See this is why I said not acceptance or Tolerance. Recognition is the proper word.I have a tendency to use the wrong word or change words in the midst of these threads, then the meanings and ideas get jumbled. I guess I can't really express my point, it's not important anyway.

[Newt]

http://www.queerbychoice.com/gaygenelinks.html


And an interesting article I found while looking for that: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/gay-by-choice.html.

A lot of really bad science occurs when questions of intense popular interest come up, I suspect because the studies, which would be rejected out of hand by any scientific disperser of funds, can get ready money from politically-motivated groups.

Any decent geneticist can tell you there's no 'gay' gene, or 'criminal' gene, or 'promiscuity' gene, and wouldn't waste time looking for one. Complex and infinitely mutable phenomena like these have complex causes, usually involving a combination of genetics, gestational environment, and physical and cultural postnatal influences. There is an element of choice in engaging in any lifestyle, but not all of the choices are equally easy for any given individual to make, and making an 'unnatural' (for the individual) choice may have severe detrimental psychological or emotional effects for the individual making that choice.

Biological determinism is silly and outmoded, but has hung around because it is politically useful.

[The-Spirit]

Next week: was Moses really a Hebrew?
I know this one! Yes!

He was also married to a black woman.

[Newt]

But, you've left no room for the Biblical revisionists! You know, the ones who say Moses was really the son of an Egyptian prince and a Jewish slave-woman who used his inherited political influence to help the Jews. And then a bunch of bizarre plagues coincidentally happened, and then Prince Moses led the Jews to the Red Sea, where they were cornered until a freak storm parted the sea for them!

I think I saw all this on a TV documentary a few years back. It was pretty funny.

[The-Spirit]

But, you've left no room for the Biblical revisionists!Good.

[Lady_Raven]

We call 'em Virgins.
heterosexually frustrated to be politically correct LOL sorry

[Wayne Drake]

that kid definitely is a cocker :laugh:


yeah, i got nothing...

[Lady_Raven]

okay, Socrates and palto and the rest were technically bi. Any study into roman and greek history yields that the whole culture was pretty much bi. They through parties for sex and they screwed pretty much anything deamed old enough.

[Newt]

Not so! Not so! But if we're really going to treat this issue thoroughly, it needs its own thread.

:cry: Leave Chris Cocker's thread alone! :cry:

[Wayne Drake]

George Carlin cameo in Jay & silent Bob: "Don't be so suburban! Gay, straight...It's all the same now!"

[The-Spirit]

heterosexually frustrated to be politically correct LOL sorry
I hate PC so it's Virgins.

[JJ McKool]

okay, Socrates and palto and the rest were technically bi. Any study into roman and greek history yields that the whole culture was pretty much bi. They through parties for sex and they screwed pretty much anything deamed old enough.

Untrue. They were technically nothing because they had no words for it. They had a completely different understanding of it. Essentially you could be submissive or dominant during sex, and that's about it. Defining them by our definitions makes you lose a certain understanding about the contexts.

[The-Spirit]

Hey!

[Newt]

I am? Crap!

[Buckyrig]

I don't know. When Socrates and Billy The Kid went to the mall, they made a beeline for the chicks.

[Mic. Gee]

More wackiness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Angel)


Are you guys sure there isn't a gene for this?
The scientific community is probably covering it up!

[The Scribe]

Grumble grumble responsibility complain moan bollocks

Nuggets!



http://www.followthemusic.com/album%20covers/nuggets.jpg

:har: :p

[Newt]

More wackiness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Angel)


Are you guys sure there isn't a gene for this?
The scientific community is probably covering it up!

Yes, we are covering it up, and for good reason!

It's just too confusing.

[Mic. Gee]

Yes, we are covering it up, and for good reason!

It's just too confusing.
Are you a scientist?

[Newt]

Yes.

[Lady_Raven]

Untrue. They were technically nothing because they had no words for it. They had a completely different understanding of it. Essentially you could be submissive or dominant during sex, and that's about it. Defining them by our definitions makes you lose a certain understanding about the contexts.

no I understand the contexts. Its the explaining of those contexts thats the difficult part. It was acceptable to them. But trying to explain the why in todays terms is much more difficult. So saying they were bi is the easiest way to put it. I have studied ancient cultures since I was a child, although most of my knowledge revolves around ancient egyptian.

[Raven]

Maybe he's just trying to be cool to get in good with Hollywood and have a better life than a straight guy would.

A life without women?

I think they have it pretty good, considering. Aside from the ass sex of course.

[MattWaterman]

:laugh: :laugh: :rolleyes:

....aaaaand: Round Two!!!

:whistlin: