WTF!?! Serious, WTF?!? Benoit's dead?

[Deadfish07]

From WWE.com...

"WWE is sad to report that Chris Benoit and his family have been found dead in their home. Police are currently investigating the circumstances surrounding the deaths. Tonight's Raw will be a tribute to Chris and his family. "

It's insane. I can't believe it.

[Lovecraft13]

What????

[omega sentry]

what the fuck indeed what's up with this first eddy and now chris???

See this is what I was talking about....now I don't know what to believe...are they really dead? or is this part of the story plot with Mcmahon?

This is rediculous.... :cry:

[L Jamal]

Since when did wrestling become such a deadly career?

[Scott James]

His family as well? That doesn't bode well. Benoit had nothing to do with the Mcmahon angle though did he?

[omega sentry]

See two wwe wrestlers passed away...since this crapp...I can't deal with this story line...cause I don't know if benoit is really dead or part of the story line...cause that stupid so called investigator said there was another great know wwe figure's DNA and on the payperview chris called off the match to go see his familly ( Coincidence?)...so what ??? shane and and the princess find out and whack his whole familly??? or are they dead for reals???

....this is fucked

From my other post so I don't know...this is really confusing... :man:

[kdmelrose]

From PWTorch (http://www.pwtorch.com/artman/publish/article_20620.shtml): WWE wrestler Chris Benoit, his wife Nancy and his son Daniel were found dead today in their Atlanta home.

WWE.com reported the story moments ago on their website. Benoit, 40, missed a Saturday night house show and last night's pay-per-view in order to return home to Atlanta.

PWTorch.com can confirm through sources that Benoit's death is real and not part of a worked WWE storyline.

WWE has announced plans to scrap tonight's scheduled "Vince McMahon memorial" storyline on WWE Raw, and will address Benoit's death on the program.

No further details are available at this time.

[omega sentry]

:cry:

[dpendleton]

This is a damn shame.

[Khuth]

I'm totally shocked and Benoit was my favorite wrestler, i enjoyed everything he's done from New Japan to ECW, WCW and the WWF/E. So this is just strange to not only lose Benoit but his wife Nancy (Woman) and their son Daniel. You don't just lose a whole family like that.

RIP Crippler, the world of wrestling has lost another light with Chris Benoit.

[kdmelrose]

Here's (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/fayette/stories/2007/06/25/0625benoit.html) the Atlanta Journal-Constitution story. Details are still sketchy.

[L Jamal]

So this is just strange to not only lose Benoit but his wife Nancy (Woman) and their son Daniel. You don't just lose a whole family like that.
I wathc a whole lot of crime shows and believe me, it's not so odd that an entire family died, i suspect it's a homicide.

[MattWaterman]

hOOLly shit...

I am just still in shock...

One thing I will say, and far be it for me to compliment Vince, but this is really classy the way he's handling it, scrapping that whole "dead Vince" angle and all.

[Deadfish07]

Looks like Vince did the right thing tonight. He cancelled tonight's event and broke his dopey storyline. They are doing the show in an empty arena, showing Benoit's career highlights.

[The Scribe]

Wasn't Benoit about to sign with TNA? HMMM, foul play?

[Pacmanshead]

All I can say is holy shit.

[Mike225]

I don't have any words right now.

[deanne]

:( I'm really sad. I've always like Benoit. Always. He's a phenomenal athlete.
I'm even more sad when I found out how old Daniel was. SEVEN. He was only seven!

:cry:

[Imiron]

:mad: just sucks :(

[Gonzogoose]

I have been in total shock since Raw came on the air and told the sad, sad news. This is just awful. Truly the best ever, and from the sounds of it one heck of a guy. This is very heartbreaking.

[Johnny B]

This is truely a shame. Benoit was my favorite performer. Nothing but total respect for the man and the way he conducted himself inside and outside of the ring.

I had heard he flew home Saturday night due to a family emergency, missing the ppv because of it, then the family turns up dead.

Very shady.

RIP Benoit and fam.

[Lovecraft13]

FAYETTEVILLE, Ga. - WWE wrestler Chris Benoit, his wife, and son were found dead Monday and police said they were investigating the deaths as a murder-suicide.

Detective Bo Turner told television station WAGA that the case was being treated as a murder-suicide, but said that couldn't be confirmed until evidence was examined by a crime lab.

The station said that investigators believe the 40-year-old Benoit killed his wife, Nancy, and 7-year-old son, Daniel, over the weekend, then himself on Monday. A neighbor called police, and the bodies were found in three rooms.

Lead investigator Lt. Tommy Pope, of the Fayette County Sheriff's Department, told The Associated Press the deaths were being investigated as homicide, and that the causes of death awaited autopsy results on Tuesday. Pope said the bodies were discovered about 2:30 p.m., but refused to release details.

The house is in a secluded neighborhood set back about 60 yards off a gravel road, surrounded by stacked stone wall and a double-iron gate. On Monday night, the house was dark except for a few outside lights. There was a police car in front, along with two uniformed officers.

Benoit was a former world heavyweight and Intercontinental champion. He also held several tag-team titles during his career.

"WWE extends its sincerest thoughts and prayers to the Benoit family's relatives and loved ones in this time of tragedy," the federation said in a statement on its Web site.

Benoit was scheduled to perform at the "Vengeance" pay-per-view event Sunday night in Houston, but was replaced at the last minute because of what announcer Jim Ross called "personal reasons."

The native of Canada maintained a home in metro Atlanta from the time he wrestled for the defunct World Championship Wrestling.

The WWE canceled its live "Monday Night RAW" card in Corpus Christi, Texas, and USA Network aired a three-hour tribute to Benoit in place of the scheduled wrestling telecast.

"My relationship with Chris has extended many years and I consider him a great friend," Carl DeMarco, the president of WWE Canada, said in a statement. "Chris was always first-class — warm, friendly, caring and professional one of the best in our business."

-ap

[Gonzogoose]

I hope that's not the case.

[exilednight]

I was never a huge Benoit fan, but I always respected and admired his ability. It's sad enough that Chris died - but his wife and kid, that's just heartbreaking.

[BEN DENNIS]

I just don't understand the mentality of a human to go home, murder your wife and child, stay in the house with their bodies, then finally kill yourself.
I've always been a fan of Chris Benoit, but if this is the case, something in his head was tragically screwed-up!
Honestly,... I was kind of expecting to find out that Kevin Sullivan did it...

[Lovecraft13]

"It has been ruled that the deaths of Chris Benoit, his wife Nancy and their son Daniel earlier today were the result of a double murder-suicide from within the home. WWE.com will have more as soon as it becomes available."

-wwe.com

[Gonzogoose]

Well that really sucks and leaves me baffled about the situation if in fact Benoit killed his wife and child and then himself. I halfway thought maybe he went home and found them dead and then killed himself. I don't know, this is just messed up.

[Jasen Smith]

According to lead investigator Lt. Tommy Pope, of the Fayette County Sheriff’s Department, in Fayetteville, Ga., the deaths of WWE Superstar Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel were the result of a double murder-suicide, WWE.com has learned.

Benoit failed to appear both at Saturday’s live event in Beaumont, Tx., and WWE’s Vengeance: Night of Champions in Houston Sunday night, after informing WWE of a family emergency. Several curious text messages sent by Benoit early Sunday morning prompted concerned friends to alert Richard Hering, VP of Government Relations for WWE, Inc. Hering, in turn, spoke with Fayette County sheriffs Monday, and requested that they respond to the Benoit residence to check on him and his family.

Authorities representing the Sheriff’s Department initially had a difficult time entering Benoit’s new Fayetteville home Monday afternoon, which had been guarded by two large German Shepherds roaming freely around the property. Once authorities entered the residence, they quickly located the bodies of Benoit, Nancy and Daniel. WWE was notified of the discovery at approximately 4 p.m.

At 10 p.m. Monday night, Lt. Pope held a press conference in conjunction with Scott Ballard, the district attorney for Fayette County. The press conference officially ruled authorities’ findings as a double murder-suicide from within the home.

WAGA, a FOX-owned and operated television station in Atlanta, reported that investigators believe Benoit killed his wife and 7-year-old son over the weekend, then himself on Monday.

The three bodies have been received by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation’s crime lab, in Decatur, Ga., where autopsies will be performed Tuesday morning. Toxicology reports will not become available for at least two weeks.

WWE.com has further information relating to both the investigation and the cause of death, but the Fayette County Sheriff’s Department has requested that WWE.com not release any additional details at this time.

Article (http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/superstars/chrisbenoit/articles/benoitupdate)

[Lovecraft13]

It's an ugly situation no matter what way it ends.

[Gonzogoose]

No doubt...

[Scaleyinx]

Wow wow wow,...this is really tragic. :( I just turned on RAW and I'm utterly shocked by all this.

[AthenaRose]

:cry:

I'm not a huge wrestling fan, or anything, but this is just... tragic...

[spider]

Holy shit, thats really woken me up this morning.
Sad, tragic news. :cry:

Edit: This better not be a storyline.

[Mr.Musgrave]

What in the fuck could have brought this about?

[Spacious Interior]

Roid Rage maybe? It's so wierd. There are certainly things that would get you killed in pro wrestling... they beat the hell out of themselves every night to entertain and sure, accidents will happen. Look at Owen Heart.

But this is just too freakin' odd. Until the toxicology report is let go, noone will know for sure, but what other explaination is there?

[Spacious Interior]

It certainly explains the "family emergancy" he was reported to have been attending to when he missed his Sunday Vangance appearence.

Not a story though.... that much became obvious when Vince McMahan returned miraculously from the grave to make the announcement. The WWE website has all the details thus far.

[kdmelrose]

Edit: This better not be a storyline.

It's not a storyline.

[Gonzogoose]

The most recent report says that when the details are released they will "prove a little bizarre". Another one said the instruments of death were in the house, though it wasn't gunshots or stabbing, but possibly poison, strangulation or suffocation.

WWE.com said Monday, just before his apparent suicide, Chris sent text messages to several people at WWE. This is just so unreal right now. It hasn't really hit me yet. As Lovecraft said, regardless of what actually happened the result is ugly. But the knowledge of Chris Benoit possibly being a murderer is just too much right now. And if I feel that way I can't possibly imagine what his close friends, family and co-workers are going through.

[Gonzogoose]

Just read this too, which sounds very ominous:

According to one source, Benoit said both his wife and son were throwing up blood and he needed to stay to take care of them.

http://www.sescoops.com/wwe/BENOIT_UPDATE_Family_Sick_Spitting_Up_Blood.shtml

[Spacious Interior]

Yeah. I havn't watched wrestling in almost 4 or 5 years now..... but he's been "legendary" for almost 20. Even when I was little he was already a name among names.

[MattWaterman]

To be fair to spider, though, I did have the same thought.

Unfortunately, it definitely is not.

[JeffW.]

It's so surreal. He was one of, if not my all time favorite. And for him to go out as a murderer of his own family makes me very sad.

[Toyandgadgetguy]

I had to re-read the story for the same reason. I thought story, too. It appears to be real, though.

[wisper]

www.dc101.com

says wife killed kid/ husban came home killed wife. then sucide

[MattWaterman]

:sure:

You sure that's the right link there, wis...?

[Scott James]

So what now? Some sites are claiming the wife killed the child then Benoit came home and offed his wife - any clarification on that?

WWE claims to be withholding information at the request of the Sheriff's office.

[Deadfish07]

During last night's Raw, they kept mentioning how quiet he was. Now I'm thinking to myself, not that old cliché. I really hope something different comes out in the evidence, because I'd hate for this to tarnish his great career.

[Biofungus]

There's a thread on this in the wrestling showcase. There's so much speculation. One report has it that he texted "his wife and kid were vomiting blood and he had to take care of them" to another wrestler friend. That would lend credence to the poison theory. If his wife and kid ingested poison and died, he might have killed himself out of distress.

We'll just have to wait and see what the autopsy shows.

(Wasn't he set up after the draft to basically take over (face wise) the ECW? I can't see him killing himself or his family over that).

[wisper]

:sure:

You sure that's the right link there, wis...?


go there and hit listen it's live radio www.dc101.com it's good early morn radio rock station they talk alot about current events...old howard stern was there back in the day.

[MattWaterman]

go there and hit listen it's live radio

Oh! I ain't got no volume here at work.


(...so don't bother calling...)

[Toyandgadgetguy]

and here I was thinking you just weren't returning my calls because you'd gotten over me.

[Scott James]

What with so many wrestlers suffering so many tragic deaths does anybody else wonder if perhaps this profession poses an attraction to the self-destructive?

Eddie Guerrero's death last year cut me badly. This has almost turned me off wrestling completely.

[Gonzogoose]

If his wife did kill their child I can almost understand his motives, but I still can't comprehend them. He was said to be a very emotional person, and after losing his best friend less than two years ago and then his child I could see him snapping. I just still can't fathom that he was capable of murder though. Maybe his wife had given both herself and the kid poison and were too far gone by the time he got home. Maybe he couldn't live with their loss and killed himself. I don't know, it's all speculation, and we may never know exactly what happened. It's just a very sad occurrence regardless.

[Mwynn]

What with so many wrestlers suffering so many tragic deaths does anybody else wonder if perhaps this profession poses an attraction to the self-destructive?


Lots of Pain Killers and stress to keep your spot. Also the work schedule is brutal.

[The DarkMind]

What with so many wrestlers suffering so many tragic deaths does anybody else wonder if perhaps this profession poses an attraction to the self-destructive?

There's nothing to wonder about. It does. Plain and simple. You have to have some level of self-destructiveness to get into the industry. You accept that the roar of the crowd when you get them to pop is worth whatever physical damage you do to yourself to get it. The price of the notoriaty is constant physical pain. Some mornings you can barely get yourself out of bed and pray to god your blown out knee doesnt collapse out from under you when you put weight on it just to go take a piss. As you limp to the bathroom all you're really thinking about is that you've got 24 to 48 hours to get rid of the limp and do it all over again for a new crowd of fans. But the energy you get from the crowd when you hit that curtain again, makes it all worth it... to some.

[SDulaney]

State of mind may not have been helped by the loss of one of his friends from the Stampede days last week.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2007/06/24/4286996.html

[Lovecraft13]

Can you still celebrate a man's long line of work after he killed his own family? If it turns out to be true, do we turn our backs to it all?

[The DarkMind]

you can, but you can't. the tribute last night is sure to catch some backlash if it comes out they were celebrating the life and career of a double murderer, and of his own family no less.

his professional skill will still be praised and looked upon as being highly regarded, but everything about the person he was will be shattered.

[MattWaterman]

Can you still celebrate a man's long line of work after he killed his own family? If it turns out to be true, do we turn our backs to it all?

Call me naive, but I would think the motive would be the mitigating factor. I mean, not to mire the thing down in moral relativism, but if, for example, it was proven that he deliberately poisoned them then...yeah, I suppose his celebration might end. I have to think that's not the case though. Maybe just wisful thinking. More likely, it was a heat-of-the-moment issue, in some way or another, and that might make it more tragic than abominable...

[SethNI]

There are some reports floating about the net that he killed his wife on Saturday, his son on Sunday then himself on the Monday.
If this is true, and he calls on Sunday to say he can't make the PPV because of family problems, how can the WWE justify a memorial?
This is just getting stranger and stranger.

[L Jamal]

If the memorial had just stuck to Benoit the wrestler then it is possible to separate the passing of the wrestler from the circumstances around the death. However, they crossed into Benoit the person praising his love of his family and IF (see the big IF) it turns out that he murdered both his son and wife, then the entire show in retrospect becomes inappropriate.

[Mecha]

This one here says he strangled his wife and smothered his son and then hung himself:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/06/25/wrestler.dead.ap/index.html

[dano]

He backed out of a PPV for that?

[The DarkMind]

WWE has erased Benoit from all the title histories and merchandise

[dano]

Why would he emergencyly quit a PPV just to kill his family? He could have done that at any time
Do we know for sure the wife didn't kill the kid first?

[Gonzogoose]

At the time the tribute aired it wasn't released that they were considering it a murder suicide was it? I don't think it was as it aired only four hours after WWE was notified of the deaths. I doubt they would have gone through with a tribute like that had they known. I mean not even the WWE could be that callous could they?

[Gonzogoose]

Why would he emergencyly quit a PPV just to kill his family? He could have done that at any time
Do we know for sure the wife didn't kill the kid first?

He didn't just miss the pay-per-view, he also missed a house show and stated he had to go home for some family emergency. If the report about Nancy being killed Saturday and Daniel on Sunday is accurate then there's no way she could have killed the kid. This is all very bizarre indeed.

[Gonzogoose]

Btw, there's supposed to be a televised press conference at 3pm Est today on several cable news networks about it.

[Mike225]

He didn't just miss the pay-per-view, he also missed a house show and stated he had to go home for some family emergency. If the report about Nancy being killed Saturday and Daniel on Sunday is accurate then there's no way she could have killed the kid. This is all very bizarre indeed.Every report I've seen says Daniel was the first.

[MattWaterman]

At the time the tribute aired it wasn't released that they were considering it a murder suicide was it? I don't think it was as it aired only four hours after WWE was notified of the deaths. I doubt they would have gone through with a tribute like that had they known. I mean not even the WWE could be that callous could they?

All I have to say is, they appear to have handled it in the classiest way they could, given the information at hand and the time constraints. Hindsight is 20/20 and it'd be kinda silly to fault the WWE in virtually any case...

[L Jamal]

WWE has erased Benoit from all the title histories and merchandise
They haven't changed anything about the title histories Benoit is still listed as one of the Heavyweight champions.

It's looks like all Benoit merchandise has been "discontinued"

[Lovecraft13]

Nancy Benoit filed for divorce in May 2003 and claimed domestic abuse in her court filings. A petition seeking protection from domestic abuse said she was intimidated by threats of violence from her husband Chris Benoit.

A restraining order was issued on May 12, 2003 against Chris Benoit that barred him from the couple's then residence in Peachtree City. On August 19, 2003, Nancy Benoit filed to dismiss the divoce petition as well as the protective restraining order.

Friends close to the couple tell us that they had a very rocky relationship and would often have "blowups" that would lead to Chris Benoit leaving for a day or so to "cool off".

-ap

[Lovecraft13]

Here's an article about the murders:

click me (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/fayette/stories/2007/06/25/0625benoit.html)

[The DarkMind]

They haven't changed anything about the title histories Benoit is still listed as one of the Heavyweight champions.

It's looks like all Benoit merchandise has been "discontinued"

it may be in process then. just relaying info thats given to me from someone in the industry.

[L Jamal]

it may be in process then. just relaying info thats given to me from someone in the industry.
It seems excessive to attempt to erase a wrestler from company history after doing a tribute show for the wrestler.

[Gonzogoose]

Bill Apter from 1wrestling.com just phoned in on Fox News. Nothing new, he just talked about knowing Chris and saying he couldn't fathom how he could have done this if he did.

[The DarkMind]

It seems excessive to attempt to erase a wrestler from company history after doing a tribute show for the wrestler.

i agree because for the diehard fans its going to leave a gap and since its not a common occurance it will be pretty easy to fill in the blanks. before my ex started on her path through the indys she could rattle off every single title holder and the details of the match through-out the history of the belt. she still puts some of the vets who have spent time in the fed to shame with her knowledge of the business.

it may have just been a hasty announcement in responce to the findings after having a tribute talking about how much he loved his family. who knows? i'm just the puppet here.

[Mwynn]

This is from the SummerSlam 04 DVD (when Orton won the title from Benoit)

WWE CHAMPIONSHIP: John “Bradshaw” Layfield vs. Undertaker. Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle. Triple H vs. Eugene. TILL DEATH DO US PART MATCH - LITA MARRIES THE WINNER: Matt Hardy vs. Kane. BEST-OF-5 SERIES FOR THE UNDISPUTED UNITED STATES CHAMPIONSHIP: Booker T vs. John Cena. TRIPLE-THREAT MATCH FOR THE INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIP: Edge vs. Batista vs. Chris Jericho. SIX-MAN TAG TEAM MATCH: Rey Mysterio, Paul London & Billy Kidman vs. Spike Dudley, Bubba Ray Dudley & D-Von Dudley. DIVA DODGEBALL. Special guest appearance by Randy Orton.Approximate running time: 3 hours.

[JeffW.]

While what he MAY have done is atrocious, I don't like the idea of erasing him from WWE history at all.

[Gonzogoose]

Yeah, that seems a bit extreme. Though I don't know how I'll watch a Benoit match now...

[Lovecraft13]

This event keeps getting worse. When Stephanie was talking about how devoted he was to his family... well, this situation darkens that persona.

I wonder if Vince will continue on with his own death angle, or simply move on like the limo never blew up?

[Lovecraft13]

And I'm surprised MVP didn't make a statement on last night's show. That guy idolized Benoit like Benoit idolized Dynamite Kid.

[The DarkMind]

it would be impossible to erase him completely because it would be like punishing those who worked with him. his matches will still be around, and sold on the DVDs they just won't market it with his name a la "Special guest appearance by Randy Orton" I'd be surprised if they even give him billing on the chapter select menus on future production runs of the DVDs.

[Mwynn]

And I'm surprised MVP didn't make a statement on last night's show. That guy idolized Benoit like Benoit idolized Dynamite Kid.
He probably was to upset to talk.

[MattWaterman]

If the WWE actually does go through with that.... :confused: :confused: :confused:

What a wierd precent to set. It's not as if all of these guys are choir boys. Hell, Austin himself has already been arrested for sposal abuse. Granted, that's not the same as killing his wife and child, but it is a slippery slope...

[dano]

It seems a bit premature being that the cops havent issues the final report yet.
Or have they?
Maybe the WWE knows something we don't. Those rascally carnie folk!

[Mwynn]

They issue a statement saying that they had info they could not release.

[Deadfish07]

I have a feeling it will be back to business as usual tonight on ECW and continuing on Smackdown. Chances are, if this wasn't viewed as a murder/suicide, they would have continued the tribute and testimonials.

I also think it's absurd that WWE is erasing Benoit's career from their history. This is the same company that continues to do business with Steve Austin, a wife abuser and capitalized off of Eddie Guererro's death.

Give it time, WWE will probably put out a "Self Destruction of" DVD of Benoit.

[Jason Arthur]

Live press conference confirms the worst:

Double Murder/Suicide.

They said the son was found in his bedroom in bed, so here's hoping that he at least didn't suffer.

Benoit hung himself in the basement area (possibly the weight room).

-- J

[Wayne Drake]

i was a fan. this is F'd up, seriously. No wonder i quit watching.

[Mwynn]

Nancy Benoit filed for a divorce in May 2003, saying their three-year union was irrevocably broken and alleging "cruel treatment." But she later dropped the complaint, as well as a request for a restraining order in which she charged that Benoit had threatened her and had broken furniture in their home.

In the divorce filing, she said Benoit made more than $500,000 a year as a professional wrestler and asked for permanent custody of Daniel and child support. In his response, Benoit sought joint custody.

Fayette County Coroner C.J. Mowell did not return calls seeking comment. The answering service for his funeral home said he was out of town.

Asked about the condition of the interior of the house, sheriff's Sgt. Keith Whiteside said investigators found "nothing really out of the ordinary." He said Benoit was found in the home's weight room, his wife in an office and the son in an upstairs bedroom.

Neighbors said the Benoits led a low-key lifestyle.

"We would see Chris walking in his yard from time to time. He wasn't rude, but he wasn't really outwardly warm," said Alaina Jones, who lives across the street.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070626/ap_on_re_us/wrestler_dead;_ylt=Ah3fnyXyxlJLpkTvMLRz5AKs0NUE

[DeVon72176]

He's slowly being deleted off of their site. I was able to get to his profile this morning, but can't now. Even after going back through history. File not found. Oddly, I can still play his entrance video, but I'm sure that will be gone later.

If the wwe can censor out all of the "wwf" in their past videos (sight and sound. I can't bring myself to watch those videos), I wouldn't put it past them to censor benoit either.

It's a shame this happened. He was one of the few wrestlers I acually liked to watch wrestle when used to watch the show.

[L Jamal]

I can understand the WWE not wanting to profit off the murder/suicide and thus removing Benoit's from the merchandising.

[omega sentry]

:( :mad:

[Wayne Drake]

what sucks is he died a murderer. scumbag.

[SMASHER/DEVOURER]

I am deeply sorry for making you all think I was dead. It was the stupidest storyline I have ever created. I am such a dickhead. I will now resign and Steve Austin will take over the WWE. To Benoit's family, feel free to kick me in the balls whenever you see me, that invitation goes out to the Guerrero's as well.
Horrible. :man:

edit: Oh and I love it how last week, Stephanie McMahon was so distraught when speaking of her "late" father. She is no better than Vince.

[omega sentry]

I honetly wish it was some derange fan making it look like...rather than he. IDK crapp... :mad:

[kdmelrose]

:huh:

[L Jamal]

:huh:
:blink:

[Imboden]

:blink:
:slap:

[Raven]

i agree because for the diehard fans its going to leave a gap and since its not a common occurance it will be pretty easy to fill in the blanks. before my ex started on her path through the indys she could rattle off every single title holder and the details of the match through-out the history of the belt. she still puts some of the vets who have spent time in the fed to shame with her knowledge of the business.

it may have just been a hasty announcement in responce to the findings after having a tribute talking about how much he loved his family. who knows? i'm just the puppet here.

They held the tribute because they loved him. They pulled him from the site, as well as from history, because he murdered innocent people. Had he simply killed himself, we could have given him a statue here in Canada. Now, his whole life amounted to nothing at all.

[MatthewMonster]

Something shady is going on....

One minute WWE is doing a tribute to him on TV. Next they are starting to make it like he never exsisted.

[kdmelrose]

Something shady is going on....

One minute WWE is doing a tribute to him on TV. Next they are starting to make it like he never exsisted.

It's not "shady"; it's business. If your business is marketing personalities and selling products based on those personalities, you don't want to be closely associated with someone who murdered his wife and child.

[L Jamal]

In all honesty, all they have done that they haven't done for others not on the roster (like Eddie) is remove the merchandise.

[Deadfish07]

The story just updated, and it's even more twisted now.

"Benoit's 43-year-old wife was killed Friday in an upstairs family room, her feet and wrists were bound and there was blood under her head, indicating a possible struggle, Ballard said. Daniel was probably killed late Saturday or early Sunday, the body found in his bed, the district attorney said.

Benoit, 40, apparently hanged himself several hours and as long as a day later, Ballard said. His body was found in a downstairs weight room, his body found hanging from the pulley of a piece of exercise equipment.

A closed Bible was placed next to the bodies of the wife and son, authorities said.

The prosecutor said he found it "bizarre" that the WWE wrestling star spread out the killings over a weekend and appeared to remain in the house for up to a day with the bodies."

Plus, steroids were found on the property. I'm really speechless on how strange this is.

[exilednight]

I saw a frightening statistic, from 1997-2007, 65 pro wrestlers have died that were under the age of 45.

[Lovecraft13]

Vince is going to apologize for the tribute show tonight on ECW.

[omega sentry]

:huh:


exactly I'm confused about this I don't understand how some one could do this....so I was hoping it was some lunatic fan that killed them all and frame chris....

As for now I'm separating benoit the WWE character with the person...cause well their not one in the same. I only wish they shed a light and let us understand and more so the wresters and families why a this came to be. So maybe this does not happen again. I can only imagine how confused they are. Being that they knew one man and some how he transformed to this. Nothing can justify his actions but understanding how this came to be could help others.

On another note, apologies for what? No one apologies for selling Charley Manson shirts poster and other such things Or nazi paraphernalia. I demand and apology for this if their going to apologies for expressing their loss for some one that was a great performer and friend. Plus they didn’t know every detail, and right now they most be more lost than ever cause this is some one they loved.

[Pacmanshead]

Its insane how one man can go from being loved and remembered to hated and forgotten in a matter of hours.

[exilednight]

I demand and apology for this if their going to apologies for expressing their loss for some one that was a great performer and friend.

I agree, I think it is wrong to demand an apology, but if they do offer one it will go a long way towards healing any rift that may occur between the WWE and their fan base. It would have to be a carefully worded statement, the last thing they need to apologize for is remembering a friend as they knew him. I am sure if they knew the details ahead of time that they would have handled it differently.

[Mwynn]

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/chairmanbenoit

[Lovecraft13]

Perry Saturn was shot three times in the neck for saving a woman from being raped. Eddie Gurrero died from heart failure. Benoit murdered his family and then killed himself...

Dean Malenko might be next...

[Biofungus]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/ap_on_re_us/wrestler_dead;_ylt=AppKVNqS_TXMMyi6Ti3yTHtH2ocA

FAYETTEVILLE, Ga. - Pro wrestler Chris Benoit strangled his wife, suffocated his 7-year-old son and placed a Bible next to their bodies before hanging himself with a weight-machine pulley, authorities said Tuesday.


They seem to be confirming now that it was a murder-suicide (that the acts were 'deliberate' and not "rage induced", as would be with roid rage).

[Gonzogoose]

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/chrisbenoittimeline

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/detailedbenoittimeline

The text messages and what time they were sent are revealed as well as detailed interaction with Benoit leading up to his death.

[spider]

Perry Saturn was shot three times in the neck for saving a woman from being raped. Eddie Gurrero died from heart failure. Benoit murdered his family and then killed himself...

Dean Malenko might be next...

Don't count on it, Eddie died of natural causes, the other two knew the situations they were entering into (and Perry is still with us).

What has happened is coincidence, I'm personally not superstitous enough to believe otherwise.

[The DarkMind]

Though it does follow the set of threes when it comes to deaths.
Sherri, Benoit, and Woman

[Deadfish07]

Judging from the tribute show and the "C" in the text messages, it was Chavo that Benoit was talking to.

[MattWaterman]

What has happened is coincidence, I'm .

That, I do not believe. The wrestling carnival is, by nature, an industry that chews people up and spits them out...as is most entertainment professions. It's ludicrous to assume this situation, Guerroro's, British Bulldog's, Miss Elizabeth's, etc. etc. are all just coincidence.

[SDulaney]

Judging from the tribute show and the "C" in the text messages, it was Chavo that Benoit was talking to.

I'd guess the "S" was William (Steve) Regal, which would put his comments on the tribute show in perspective.

[MatthewMonster]

It's not "shady"; it's business. If your business is marketing personalities and selling products based on those personalities, you don't want to be closely associated with someone who murdered his wife and child.

I guess I meant shady so much as WWE really messed up, by eluogizing a pscyhopath child murderer...and having their stars say what a great guy he was....when they had ZERO facts ( apparently ) at the time.....they look bad...and now it full on panic mode.

I totally understand them distancing themselves...but this is the same company that gave him a 3 hour tribute....WWE and Vince are really just looking out forthemselves....First a trinute, then a press release saying its anything but roid rage...now they are finally condemming him

This whole thing is sick, and sad at the end of the day...

[Raven]

I guess I meant shady so much as WWE really messed up, by eluogizing a pscyhopath child murderer...and having their stars say what a great guy he was....when they had ZERO facts ( apparently ) at the time.....they look bad...and now it full on panic mode.

I totally understand them distancing themselves...but this is the same company that gave him a 3 hour tribute....WWE and Vince are really just looking out forthemselves....First a trinute, then a press release saying its anything but roid rage...now they are finally condemming him

This whole thing is sick, and sad at the end of the day...

How can you look bad for defending a friend??? They didn't know them as well as they thought, but that doesn't change the fact that he was their friend.

[omega sentry]

It also does not mean he was always a spycho...Some people snap under presure or for what ever else. Sure it does not condone their actions but some thing had to happen to making go nuts...it does not mean he was not a good person in the past. No doubt he was a great athlete and entertainer.

In any such case I really wish to know what can drive an great person as every one said he was to just snap like that.

[Lovecraft13]

Maybe Kevin Sullivan murdered Benoit, and framed him for the murder of his family?

Needless to say, I bet we're gonna see a pro-wrestling centric episode on Law & Order next season, along with something from CSI.

[MatthewMonster]

How can you look bad for defending a friend??? They didn't know them as well as they thought, but that doesn't change the fact that he was their friend.

They looked stupid...and it seemed cheap....

WWE didnt even have any facts about what had happened, and theyhad it stars going in front of a camera and exposing how great a father/guy he was....etc

They should have thrown together a best of episode or a "road to" special..while the facts got sorted.Instead WWE did what it always did....not think.

[L Jamal]

The WWE should limit all tributes to the in-ring work of the wrestlers. Leave the locker room antics and personal stuff out.

[Mwynn]

I am sure one of the main reasons they went with the tribute show, was because they screwed up with the Owen hart situation. The man fell to the ring and they did not stop the show. This was a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

[MattWaterman]

Agree. I'll reiterate: It's very hard to actually blame WWE for their handling of the situation given the amounts of information they had at their disposal at various points.

[Mwynn]

From a business stand point, by having people talk about Benoit it filled the 3 hour block. There was no way they would give away footage, they could use in a special DVD set. If it had turned out he was not involved in the deaths.

[MattWaterman]

You have, got some zany. Punctuation stylings. Marvin.

;)

[Mwynn]

You have, got some zany. Punctuation stylings. Marvin.

;)
Sure you right!!

[Mwynn]

Vince will not get out of this one easily.
http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3607731&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

There is an article up on myfoxcolorado.com with Steve Austin's ex-wife, Debra Williams. Debra claims that she saw Austin use steroids and that he abused her.

Debra also claims that she and Nancy Benoit's stories are very similar.
"The domestic and drug abuse is out of hand in the WWE and something needs to be done about it," Debra says.

[MatthewMonster]

Shocking.

Yeah...Vince is gonna have to deal with this....WWE behind the scenes is scary...sad thing is...something bad will happen to someone else very soon as well.

Saw this online.

Famous Wrestlers That Have Died Since 1985 Before the Age of 65
Chris Von Erich - 21
Mike Von Erich - 23
Louie Spiccoli - 27
Art Barr - 28
Gino Hernandez - 29
Jay Youngblood - 30
Rick McGraw - 30
Joey Marella - 30
Ed Gatner - 31
Buzz Sawyer - 32
Crash Holly - 32
Kerry Von Erich - 33
D.J. Peterson - 33
Eddie Gilbert - 33
The Renegade - 33
Owen Hart - 33
Chris Candido - 33
Adrian Adonis - 34
Gary Albright - 34
Bobby Duncum Jr. - 34
Yokozuna - 34
Big Dick Dudley - 34
Brian Pillman - 35
Marianna Komlos - 35
Pitbull #2 - 36
The Wall/Malice - 36
Leroy Brown - 38
Mark Curtis - 38
Eddie Guerrero - 38
Davey Boy Smith - 39
Johnny Grunge - 39
Vivian Vachon - 40
Jeep Swenson - 40
Brady Boone - 40
Terry Gordy - 40
Bertha Faye - 40
Billy Joe Travis - 40
Chris Benoit - 40
Larry Cameron - 41
Rick Rude - 41
Randy Anderson - 41
Bruiser Brody - 42
Miss Elizabeth - 42
Big Boss Man - 42
Earthquake - 42
Mike Awesome - 42
Ray Candy - 43
Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43
Dino Bravo - 44
Curt Hennig - 44
Bam Bam Bigelow - 45
Jerry Blackwell - 45
Junkyard Dog - 45
Hercules - 45
Andre the Giant - 46
Big John Studd - 46
Chris Adams - 46
Mike Davis - 46
Hawk - 46
Dick Murdoch - 49
Jumbo Tsuruta - 49
Rocco Rock - 49
Sherri Martel - 49
Moondog Spot - 51
Ken Timbs - 53
Uncle Elmer - 54
Pez Whatley - 54
Eddie Graham - 55
Tarzan Tyler - 55
Haystacks Calhoun- 55
Giant Haystacks - 55
The Spoiler - 56
Kurt Von Hess - 56
Moondog King - 56
Gene Anderson - 58
Dr. Jerry Graham - 58
Bulldog Brown - 58
Tony Parisi - 58
Rufus R. Jones - 60
Ray Stevens - 60
Stan Stasiak - 60
Terry Garvin - 60
Boris Malenko - 61
Little Beaver - 61
Sapphire - 61
Shohei Baba - 61
Dick the Bruiser - 62
Wilbur Snyder - 62
George Cannon - 62
Karl Krupp - 62
Dale Lewis - 62
Gorilla Monsoon - 62
Hiro Matsuda - 62
Bad News Brown - 63
Bulldog Brower - 63
Wahoo McDaniel - 63

(Sources include: Pro Wrestling Illustrated Almanac, Obsessed with Wrestling.com, & Wrestling Information Archive)

[JeffW.]

What the hell happened to Mike Awesome?!

Also, I'm sure drugs played a part in most of these but some (Owen Hart, Louis Spicolli) are accidents. Right?

I was talking to my wife about this. These guys almost HAVE to get on some kind of drugs to even compete, it starts out as painkillers to make the next show and escalates from there. It's one hell of a lifestyle.

[Mike225]

The Wall? Wasn't he Abyss?

[Mwynn]

The Wall? Wasn't he Abyss?
No. http://www.the-wall.info/the_wall_1.jpeg

[Mike225]

Oh, okay...my bad, I thought they were the same guy.

[spider]

But do some of those deaths count, or is there just a curse on wrestling in general.
Some of those deaths were suicide, others were people who have'nt actually wrestled.

[Mike225]

At least two of them were from cancer, too.

[Khuth]

What the hell happened to Mike Awesome?!

Also, I'm sure drugs played a part in most of these but some (Owen Hart, Louis Spicolli) are accidents. Right?

I was talking to my wife about this. These guys almost HAVE to get on some kind of drugs to even compete, it starts out as painkillers to make the next show and escalates from there. It's one hell of a lifestyle.

Mike Awesome commited suicide, and I though Spiccoli was drug related.

[MatthewMonster]

But do some of those deaths count, or is there just a curse on wrestling in general.
Some of those deaths were suicide, others were people who have'nt actually wrestled.

Its the lifestyle and culture...obviously professional wrestling as a carreer is very bad for you....your retire/stop working into a life of a combination of long term injuries, constant medication, drugs, alchohal, depression etc etc.

[bastian]

I think its sick that the wwe actually made a tribute for him. this guy killed his family, he should be treated like a terrorist, a muderer. to think he had to drag his wife and 7 year old son. he should have left them alone. shame on wwe.

[Gonzogoose]

I think its sick that the wwe actually made a tribute for him. this guy killed his family, he should be treated like a terrorist, a muderer. to think he had to drag his wife and 7 year old son. he should have left them alone. shame on wwe.

As stated, they didn't know he was a murderer at the time of the tribute.

[Lovecraft13]

I remember reading about a conference held at 10pm announcing the double-murder suicide theory, which was also around the same time Stephanie was on RAW talking about how devoted Benoit was to his family.

[MatthewMonster]

I think it was as early as 7 oclock at night that night the media started reporting about the murder suicide. And WWE must have know well before that....they were just trying to cover theie ass/look like they didn't run an indusrty the chews up and spit s out these athletes.

[omega sentry]

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/benoitpressures

[Grant Perkins]

I think its sick that the wwe actually made a tribute for him. this guy killed his family, he should be treated like a terrorist, a muderer. to think he had to drag his wife and 7 year old son. he should have left them alone. shame on wwe.

Right now, no one knows for sure how the events went down. At best, all we'll ever have are educated guesses.

Yes, Chris may have killed his wife, kid and then himself. Though who's to say that Nancy didn't kill Daniel then Chris killed her for doing it? Or even if Daniel and Nancy were killed my a third party? Regardless, WWE were right in aring the tribute show. Even if Chris is a murderer, should his life, his legacy be tainted by the events of one weekend?

Chris was an entertainer by trade, the man entertained myself and many others for years. For that I thank him. What happened that weekend is none of my business, and none of yours.

We look up to a guy as a superhuman for over two decades, but one mistake and we tear him - and his memory - down into the gutter with us.

[Biofungus]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19468182/

ATLANTA - In the days before pro wrestler Chris Benoit killed his wife and child and hanged himself, the couple argued over whether he should stay home more to take care of their mentally retarded 7-year-old son, an attorney for the wrestling league said Wednesday

[kdmelrose]

Though who's to say that Nancy didn't kill Daniel then Chris killed her for doing it? Or even if Daniel and Nancy were killed my a third party?

Those scenarios don't seem to be in the running.

ATLANTA - In the days before pro wrestler Chris Benoit killed his wife and child and hanged himself, the couple argued over whether he should stay home more to take care of their mentally retarded 7-year-old son, an attorney for the wrestling league said Wednesday.

The WWE is being pretty ... crafty in its efforts to ensure the public doesn't link steroid abuse with the murders (and then back to the WWE).

[Gonzogoose]

Was there really a right or classy way for the WWE to handle the situation though? I mean yes, the guy may very well be a murderer, but he was their friend and a brother to some for many, many years. The WWE did the best they could given the situation. They're going to be under scrutiny no matter what they do.

I am not a huge fan of how the WWE handles itself, but I can't fault them in this situation.

As for the possibility of Benoit not being the murderer authorities claim him to be, I want to believe in my heart of hearts he didn't do it. But only God and the Benoits will ever really know exactly how things went down. The police can only guess based on evidence, and then make a ruling. They can't say without a doubt exactly what happened.

It's still odd to me that Chris made sure people would find them. It's just very odd, the whole thing, and there will never really truly be a definitive answer or peace about the situation.

[spider]

Right now, no one knows for sure how the events went down. At best, all we'll ever have are educated guesses.

Yes, Chris may have killed his wife, kid and then himself. Though who's to say that Nancy didn't kill Daniel then Chris killed her for doing it?

Because studies showed each were killed at least 10 hours apart, the first being the wife.
I'm not saying I condone the situation at all but if that MSN report is true I can kind of see where Chris was coming from, his mindset, motivations etc.

Regardless of what has happened I can only hope he thought he was doing what was best for him and his family.

[kdmelrose]

... if that MSN report is true I can kind of see where Chris was coming from, his mindset, motivations etc.

Regardless of what has happened I can only hope he thought he was doing what was best for him and his family.

:blink:

[Biofungus]

The WWE is being pretty ... crafty in its efforts to ensure the public doesn't link steroid abuse with the murders (and then back to the WWE).

Well, until they somehow link medxlife.com (which has already come under serious fire before this, with over 20 arrests made) to the WWE, Vince doesn't have much to worry about. It's too easy at this point to suggest he took them of his own volition.

[kdmelrose]

Oh, I don't think the WWE was feeding him steroids or actively condoning their use.

But it's easy for the public to make a connection when the murders, steroids and WWE are repeatedly bunched together in news reports (911-Iraq, anyone?). I just think it's interesting, in a PR/damage control case study sort of way, how the WWE is carefully laying out information to ensure we're aware of the other factors at play.

[Biofungus]

Oh, I don't think the WWE was feeding him steroids or actively condoning their use.

But it's easy for the public to make a connection when the murders, steroids and WWE are repeatedly bunched together in news reports (911-Iraq, anyone?). I just think it's interesting, in a PR/damage control case study sort of way, how the WWE is carefully laying out information to ensure we're aware of the other factors at play.
I agree. That's why I made mention of the medxlife.com issue. In many articles it seems to get almost as much wordplay as the incident itself. If steroids are determined to be the impetus that drove Benoit over the edge, "medxlife.com" is going to be fresh in the mind of readers/viewers, rather than WWE condoning steroids.

[MatthewMonster]

UGh...this is all getting really sad...

[Gonzogoose]

Here's Vince McMahon on the Today Show talking about the incident and steroids. I honestly thought he handled it well:

http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/msnbc/fv.htm??g=6fc941c3-ad35-4f6c-882a-b2f056f06a72&f=05&fg=rss

[Deadfish07]

They showed Owen Hart and said he died of an heart attack. Then I looked above his picture, it listed him as the British Bulldog.

Who was the fifth guy who died under WWE's watch? I know of Benoit, Eddie, Owen and Brian Pillman, but who's the 5th?

[Mwynn]

You mean while they were under contract?

[Deadfish07]

Yeah, Vince said three wrestlers died of heart disease under his watch in the interview. He didn't say who they were, but I figure two of them were Eddie and Pillman.

[Mwynn]

I want to say Yokozuna.

[Mike225]

No, he wasn't under contract when he died.

[Gonzogoose]

Andre?

[The DarkMind]

No, Andre was with WCW. I dont know if he was still under contract when he died, but he last worked for WCW in 92. Died in 93. Vince didn't buy WCW until 2001.

[Mic. Gee]

:blink:
Yeah, seriously, Spider, What the fuck?

the United states, an extremely small percentage of those using steroids appear to have experienced mental disturbance severe enough to result in clinical treatments or medical case reports.[72] The majority of recent studies done on angry behavior and anabolic steroid use show little or no psychological effect, implying that either "roid rage" does not exist or that anabolic steroids' effects on aggression are often too small to be measured.



1.Is there such thing as "roid rage" or is it some kind made up term? He hadn't been taking steroids for a long time, he tested negative in April. He may have been despressed(mood swing) as a side effect of the drug. But I'm telling you....there had to be something wrong there before for the steroids to make him act out homicidal/suicdal thoughts.
Some studies however have shown a slight correlation of about 4% between marked hypomania and anabolic steroid use[73] where 50 individuals were studied, only about 4%(2) showed signs of marked hypomania. It has previously been theorized that some studies showing a correlation between angry behavior and steroid use are confounded by the fact that a high percentage of steroid users demonstrate cluster B personality disorders prior to administering steroids.[74]
-Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roid_Rage)

With personality disorders in mind The NBc article somone linked to a few posts ago suggested that narcissismwas the culprit---again. As it was with the VA tech shootings.During last night's Raw, they kept mentioning how quiet he was. Now I'm thinking to myself, not that old cliché. Still, I can't picture a public personality as being "quiet".

2.Is stuff like this becoming more common or is the reporting changing.

3.One word about the wife--are women drawn to dangerous men or what? I mean, think about those inmates you occassionally hear about who get wedding proposals while in jail. I'm not saying the wife wasn't afraid of him--I'm wondering when she felll for him was he part of the 'bad boy' crowd.

3.Haven't watched wrestling since I was a kid...Lost interest when iit fell off regular tv in the mid-90s. The intensity of some wrestlers always bugged me a little bit now I know why. Art imitating Life or some confusion of that.

4. Does this hurt wrestling in the long run--how can they spin this? Nothing like this ever happened before.

[L Jamal]

4. Does this hurt wrestling in the long run--how can they spin this? Nothing like this ever happened before.
I'm not sure there is anything to spin. A wrestler committed a couple murders and killed himself. It's an isolated event. It's not as if a coupe wrestler did so in a short amount of time, it's just one time, one event.

What they have/ will spin is the steriod association because they don't want their business painted with the taint of steriod use again.

I think that the WWE wants to get this behind them as fast as possible and by the end of this week, you may never hear a mention of Benoit again by the WWE.

[Gonzogoose]

No, Andre was with WCW. I dont know if he was still under contract when he died, but he last worked for WCW in 92. Died in 93. Vince didn't buy WCW until 2001.

I don't recall Andre ever working in WCW...

[The DarkMind]

I don't recall Andre ever working in WCW...

He was only there for a year from 91 to 92. because of his failing health he was just about never used, only made like one appearance on a pay-per-view i think.

[omega sentry]

Because studies showed each were killed at least 10 hours apart, the first being the wife.
I'm not saying I condone the situation at all but if that MSN report is true I can kind of see where Chris was coming from, his mindset, motivations etc.

Regardless of what has happened I can only hope he thought he was doing what was best for him and his family.


I was thinking though....perhaps the wwe knows more than their letting out. and if that article is not a based opinion and more of an Indirect statement. What if benoit and his wife where into SNM and or stuff like that and in the act well he killed her. In a panic state thinking about his son " as in the article " he does what he does...then kills him self.

or what if he makes him self a murderer to cover up something else...hhmm

[The DarkMind]

well you can file all that along with how many licks it takes to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop.

[omega sentry]

hahah indeed... :(

[spider]

Yeah, seriously, Spider, What the fuck?

It means what it said, I don't condone it but I'm starting to see from his point of view.
Put yourself in his shoes for a second, your wife, whom you have a shakey relationship with anyway, is asking you to quit your career to build a better relationship with your disabled son.
I'm speculating obviously, much like anyone else, maybe it wasn't like that exactly but I can see why the emotional overload would cause him to flip.
I mean, what would you do? There is no simple answer.

Oh and I think he met his wife because she was a wrestling writer or something.

[kdmelrose]

It means what it said, I don't condone it but I'm starting to see from his point of view.

Really? That's kind of ... nuts.

Put yourself in his shoes for a second, your wife, whom you have a shakey relationship with anyway, is asking you to quit your career to build a better relationship with your disabled son.

So you say, "no," or "I want a divorce," or about 117 other things. You don't kill your wife, wait a while and then kill your son.

I'm a little baffled that you can see that point of view.

[L Jamal]

I watch enough forsenic shows to know that POV occurs, but damn, divorce is an option and there are 2 other kids out there as well.

[The DarkMind]

Oh and I think he met his wife because she was a wrestling writer or something.

he met his wife in the business. she was a ringside valet and manager :(

[fluxchild]

I just saw something on Fox News, and it's more than the steroid abuse. His son was mentally impaired, and it apparently caused tons of stress. It's a damn shame. We see athletes, and other entertainers and assume that they have perfect lives just because they have the life we dream of...I guess sometimes that isn't the case.

[Scott James]

Whether or not the WWE was 'forcing' Benoit to use steroids is irrelevant - they were found at his home by the police and the side effects of prolonged use of these steroids (whether they are prescribed or not) is well-documented.

Steroids can be dangerously addictive and can cause serious mental illness that manifests itself in 'roid rage'. The two most important factors to consider here are that Benoit, as a twenty-five year ring veteran and apparent family man, would have been well-aware of the risks involved and the WWE should have been more than aware of the welfare of one of its employees.

If it is revealed that the WWE had prior knowledge of Benoit's deteriorating condition and failed to act then they should be punished with the full extent of the law.

Ultimately, it is going to be a week or two before the toxicology results come back and even then they might not prove conclusive.

[L Jamal]

The WWE does random checks for steriod use and other drug abuse. Benoit passed one such check in April.

Certain steriods are part of medical treatments all types of injuries. Just because steroids and othere drugs were found does not mean they were being abused.

Murders occur all the time with people with no history of steroid use. Even if Benoit is found to have abused steroids that doesn't mean that steroids were the cause.

The bottomline is that we killed himself and 2 others. Regardless of the "cause" the fault lies with Benoit himself.

[spider]

Really? That's kind of ... nuts.



So you say, "no," or "I want a divorce," or about 117 other things. You don't kill your wife, wait a while and then kill your son.

I'm a little baffled that you can see that point of view.

:yawn: Like I've already stated, I don't condone it.
No one knows all the details so we can only speculate, there have been many stories of children and even adults with disabilities so severe their carer/parent has felt there really is no other option because the government doesn't cater to their specific needs.
The guy was a wrestler, body probably acheing like hell after every match, guy goes back to his hotel room to get a shouting match with his wife over their son and he knows deep down everything she's saying is right.
Not to mention the emotional pain in recent years over his injuries and the death of some of his closest friends.
He probably felt pressure from WWE too having been moved to ECW and fans anticipating his next few months there.

The guy was juggling work and personal life, trying to keep everyone happy and failing, a straight face will only last so long.

[Scott James]

The bottomline is that we killed himself and 2 others. Regardless of the "cause" the fault lies with Benoit himself.
Absolutely, but there is enough evidence to suggest that the incident requires further investigation in order to clarify whether or not the WWE was being negligent.

I'm just putting that out there because what happens five years down the line and something like this happens again? Is the WWE honestly going to be able to claim it never saw it coming?

[The DarkMind]

Absolutely, but there is enough evidence to suggest that the incident requires further investigation in order to clarify whether or not the WWE was being negligent.

I'm just putting that out there because what happens five years down the line and something like this happens again? Is the WWE honestly going to be able to claim it never saw it coming?

Negligence is a bit extreme. The only way that would come into play is if they could prove that the fed was supplying the steroids or making it mandatory to use them. The WWE having any fault in what happened outside of that scenario would be the same as if an everyday joe like me did this and my job was blamed for the workload put on me.

[L Jamal]

Absolutely, but there is enough evidence to suggest that the incident requires further investigation in order to clarify whether or not the WWE was being negligent.

I'm just putting that out there because what happens five years down the line and something like this happens again? Is the WWE honestly going to be able to claim it never saw it coming?
Negligence would imply that they either caused it in some manner. Even if it happened again tomorrow, statistically it would be no more relevant to the WWE then post office workers going ballistic is to the US Post Service. It's more a symptom of the current human condition and lack of community and communal support than it is testament to the depravity of the WWE.

[Scott James]

Negligence is a bit extreme. The only way that would come into play is if they could prove that the fed was supplying the steroids or making it mandatory to use them. The WWE having any fault in what happened outside of that scenario would be the same as if an everyday joe like me did this and my job was blamed for the workload put on me.
There is also the factor that people don't just murder their families on a whim and the unspoken scenario where a similar incident might have occured in the ring (How are we to know that Benoit wasn't capable of taking a chair to a wrestler's head and meaning it?)

There is base-line behaviour, escalation, trigger points and all kinds of other psychological mumbo-jumbo that the company should have been aware of because of the stress and intensity that the athletes are required to go through in order to compete at the highest level of the sport.

What is worrying is that a lack of evidence against the WWE does not necessarily mean they are without responsiblity - it simply means they are beyond prosecution and are not then liable to bring in measures that could prevent such a tragedy occuring again.

[Jason Powell]

Negligence is a bit extreme. The only way that would come into play is if they could prove that the fed was supplying the steroids or making it mandatory to use them. The WWE having any fault in what happened outside of that scenario would be the same as if an everyday joe like me did this and my job was blamed for the workload put on me.

However WWE has been very lax on enforcing their drug policy, especially with bigger name stars, which could be considered negligent. Especially in the wake of the fact that Eddie and Chris where such good friends that it is easy to say that, more-than-likely, both where using drugs (especially steroids). Plus Chris was just coming back from an injury and it seems a lot (if not most) wrestlers use some type of steroids when they are out with an injury so they can return faster and keep up their mass. And in the recent years, how many wrestling stars have died due to drugs or been put in rehab? It is common since that the two go together. That is negligence on not only WWEs part, but really the whole industry. and really the government should of stepped in long ago and made an independent board to regulate and examine wrestlers to prevent stuff like this.

Honestly, WWE needs to put their thumb down on Randy Orton or you can guess who will most likely be next.

-SIN-
Jason

[L Jamal]

Who's to say that they are lax or negligent? Certainly not a bunch of know-it-all Internet naysayers. If murder-suicides were limited to just steriod users or just people in the WWE, then you might be able to prove a connection, however one murder suicide is not a sign of negligence. Hell, Durham has had at least 2 murder-suicides that I can remember and I sure as hell don't blame the city for those and that's twice as many as the WWE has found.

Steriods have lots medicinal including muscle repair and asthma treatment.

[pi0trov]

Benoit's Wikipedia page was edited to include his wife's death 14 hours before the bodies were found. And to add even more wierdness, the entry originated from someone at an IP address located in Stamford, CT. Crazy.

Whole news article on MSN can be found here... (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19468182/?GT1=10056)

Edit: Apparently the article was edited twice - the first time from the CT IP address, and then again an hour later from an Australian IP address after the first edit was removed. Even more crazy.

Further details in this News Article... (http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21988684-5006003,00.html)

[Scott James]

Who's to say that they are lax or negligent? Certainly not a bunch of know-it-all Internet naysayers. If murder-suicides were limited to just steriod users or just people in the WWE, then you might be able to prove a connection, however one murder suicide is not a sign of negligence. Hell, Durham has had at least 2 murder-suicides that I can remember and I sure as hell don't blame the city for those and that's twice as many as the WWE has found.

Steriods have lots medicinal including muscle repair and asthma treatment.
There are a few unescapable facts right there, and while I'm very wary of the logical fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc (Latin for "after this, therefore because of this"), the aforementioned side effects of steroids (whether through abuse or sanctioned use), the WWE's controversial behind-the-scenes history, and the circumstantial evidence of the crime scene warrant further investigation.

Of course, if Benoit did, in fact, kill both his wife and child then he takes the brunt of the responsibilty. But what the investigators will no doubt be asking is whether or not this could have been prevented, especially if the company had any incline that there was trouble on the horizon.

I only look at it from that point of view because of the unfavourable spotlight that shines on the WWE from time-to-time (family groups, censorship campaigns etc) the imperative lies with the company to prove that all policies, procedures and guidelines were followed so that they cannot be held responsible in any way for what happened.

[MatthewMonster]

Benoit's Wikipedia page was edited to include his wife's death 14 hours before the bodies were found. And to add even more wierdness, the entry originated from someone at an IP address located in Stamford, CT. Crazy.

Whole news article on MSN can be found here... (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19468182/?GT1=10056)


WOW....

THATS fucking creepy.....wow.....um.....wow....

[L Jamal]

No, investigators look for who done it and why. Crime prevention isn't really within the realm of their duties, they really are just "clean-up" guys. Beat cops and patrolmen are tasked for crime prevention and deterrence.

The WWE has already begun it's own PR campaign both online and with Vince appearing on the Today show.Vince is keenly aware that they need to be proactive rather than reactive.

[The DarkMind]

However WWE has been very lax on enforcing their drug policy, especially with bigger name stars, which could be considered negligent. Especially in the wake of the fact that Eddie and Chris where such good friends that it is easy to say that, more-than-likely, both where using drugs (especially steroids). Plus Chris was just coming back from an injury and it seems a lot (if not most) wrestlers use some type of steroids when they are out with an injury so they can return faster and keep up their mass. And in the recent years, how many wrestling stars have died due to drugs or been put in rehab? It is common since that the two go together. That is negligence on not only WWEs part, but really the whole industry. and really the government should of stepped in long ago and made an independent board to regulate and examine wrestlers to prevent stuff like this.

Honestly, WWE needs to put their thumb down on Randy Orton or you can guess who will most likely be next.

-SIN-
Jason

However Jason, MY employer (you need to stop seeing the WWE as anything more then Benoit's employer here) is very lax on their drug policy. I haven't had a screening since my pre-employment physical. Hell, even my probation officer is EXTREMELY lax on the enforcement of the drug screening policy. I've been checked once in... oh three and a half years AND had a month notice when it was coming. Unless the WWE, Benoits employer, supplied the drugs and/or steroids or told him he HAD to be on them to keep his job, they cannot and should not be held at fault in any way for what their employee (regardless of a multi year contract or not, he is paid to work for them) did outside of work and IN HIS OWN HOME.

Now, it hurts me incredibly to defend a business that i have grown a deep hatred for, and if this DOES somehow effect the industry i will indeed take a bit of sick and twisted joy in the fact. however, i'm a logical enough of a man to know when and who blame can be placed. Unless Vince was supplying, his hands are clean and people need to stop shifting the blame from Benoit to the WWE.

[Raven]

"Roid Rage" makes you choke someone to death.

It doesn't make you suffocate a small boy with a pillow.

Either way, he completely went insane on his own and killed people.

[fluxchild]

Ol Vince is in the hot seat now. A lot of people are calling for drug testing in the wrestling industry now. McMahan or however you spell his name is looking quite pissed at being questioned by reporters, and former wrestlers. Not that anyone losing their life is a good thing, but this terrible incident may have actual positive ramifications.
On Scarborough County he would only talk of 5 wrestler's deaths. I think he has a problem separating real life from the W.W.E., he seemed like he was slipping into character, and wanting to tell the guy to piss off. It would have been a bad move.

[L Jamal]

No report I read mentioned a pillow, in fact one mentions a choke hold.

[fluxchild]

yeah he suffocated the kid...

[Gonzogoose]

Actually they said all three died by asphyxiation, which is the loss of air by any number of ways. There has been no mention of a pillow anywhere that I've read.

McMahon said he could only speak on the five wrestlers that were under contract with the WWE at the time of their demise, which is frankly good business and good from a legal standpoint for the WWE. Vince McMahon may not be the most moral or scrupulous person in the world, but he's no idiot.

Did you guys hear about Geraldo Rivera claiming that Kevin Sullivan may be responsible for the deaths of both Benoit and Sheri Martel? Both Geraldo and some reporter named Nancy Grace have been reporting botched "facts" all over the place (like Benoit may have been depressed about being demoted from the Four Horseman to Raw... What??).

[Deadfish07]

Isn't Geraldo still looking for Al Capone's vault?

[Biofungus]

He found the vault. He's going to be living in it soon if he keeps misrepresenting things so grossly.

[Jason Powell]

"Roid Rage" makes you choke someone to death.

It doesn't make you suffocate a small boy with a pillow.

Either way, he completely went insane on his own and killed people.

Actually, there is no denying that "ROID RAGE" will make a person act out, violently some times. So yes, you could choke someone to death. Scientists agree that roids will also make a person hallucinate and be more paranoid, among other things (which could also cause this). Hey guys, I have asthma and had to use steroids for a while to build up my lungs and I guarantee you, they really mess with your emotions.

Plus, we know from what has been said, Beniot was taking other drugs (pain medication among others), another common factor among wrestlers. And you can add in drinking (another common factor - look at Randy Orton).

Also, Beniot was in a violent sport. I mean, other than the drugs, you have the constant travel, and lets face it, these wrestlers do get hurt a lot and your body can only take so many blows to the head before you start losing a brain cell or two (believe me, MOONDOG REX is my dad's next door neighbor and he is crazy as hell).

Now, I am not defending Beniot. This is the life he choose and agree (at least I do not think) anyone forced him to do these things. However, look at the consequences. If Beniot refused to travel as much, what do you think would of happened (Test missed a flight one time and they fired him)? If Beniot refused to take as many bumps (like Stone Cold did), what do you think would of happened? If Beniot got out of shape or took longer too return, what do you think would of happened?

Now while I agree Beniot took the easy road. He could of worked his ass off and prevented a lot of things (like drug and alcohol use) but you still have the travel demand and the bumps they deal with and that is what WWE and all wrestling need to address.

That is why I say they need a independent commission (like the boxing commission) to address these issues among others. Just because this is "SPORT ENTERTAINMENT" and not "REAL", does not mean we should let this lifestyle go on.

You guys look at this like it is the first time this has happened and you are wrong. It may be the first major star that has done this but not the first time a wrestler has killed or harmed someone. Also look at all the other deaths in the last 10 years. I can not count on my hands, how many wrestler (or ex wrestlers) that have died before they where 60.

-Jason

[L Jamal]

Coincidence doesn't always means that the common factor is the cause.

My father and both grandfathers and all great grandfathers died before they were 60 and they have virtually nothing in common other than me. That doesn't mean that I am responsible for their deaths especially when you compare that their wives that all lived into their 80s and beyond.

Other sports have the same hard life as wrestlers with the contact and pain killers and traveling and training and the deaths under 60.

With the average life expectancy in the US around 77 that means that some folks will die under 77 to account for all those that live over 77. Some may be related to their jobs like coal mining or racing deaths in Nascar, but any murder is a reflection of the individual and not the profession (unless they happen to get paid for murder).

[MattWaterman]

Y'know, I'm not going to get into WWE's level of blame here one way or the other, I just want to point out some stuff about steroids. Testing is not even close to some magic bullet that will solve the dilemma. The industry is always, ALWAYS one step ahead of the testing agents. Further, the definition of what constitutes a steroid is not even close to agreed upon. There are patches that artificially increase a person's output of testoterone but they aren't anything like the anobolic kind that literally just pumps anobolic chemicals into a person. If the WWE is only going to test for artificial, anobolic steroids and not the insanely high test numbers that those patches produce, they might as well not bother.

Just throwing that out there...

[Jason Powell]

Coincidence doesn't always means that the common factor is the cause.

My father and both grandfathers and all great grandfathers died before they were 60 and they have virtually nothing in common other than me. That doesn't mean that I am responsible for their deaths especially when you compare that their wives that all lived into their 80s and beyond.

Other sports have the same hard life as wrestlers with the contact and pain killers and traveling and training and the deaths under 60.

With the average life expectancy in the US around 77 that means that some folks will die under 77 to account for all those that live over 77. Some may be related to their jobs like coal mining or racing deaths in Nascar, but any murder is a reflection of the individual and not the profession (unless they happen to get paid for murder).

However (and they where talking about this on CNN the other night), there are a lot more deaths in wrestling than any other sport in the last ten years (average age is in the 40s-early 50s for a wrestler) and drugs and alcohol use are a common factor (steroids in most cases). Also, a lot of other contact sports (football, baseball, basketball, and boxing - hell even the UFC and MMA) have independent commissions to address these issues.

Also Jamal, what I was talking about before, when WWE first started their wellness policy they punished wrestlers with 3 months no pay. But because so many wrestlers use (and they didn't have enough big stars for the shows) they changed it to a much shorter period (which they can reinstate a wrestler even earlier) and a fine (which is like a slap on the wrist).

-Jason

[The DarkMind]

However (and they where talking about this on CNN the other night), there are a lot more deaths in wrestling than any other sport in the last ten years (average age is in the 40s-early 50s for a wrestler) and drugs and alcohol use are a common factor (steroids in most cases). Also, a lot of other contact sports (football, baseball, basketball, and boxing - hell even the UFC and MMA) have independent commissions to address these issues.

Key note is that the wrestlers who have died in the last ten years have been in the business for 10 or more years. The career length of a wrestler is dramatically longer then that of any other sports athlete.

Ric Flair has been wrestling for 35 years, is 58 years old, and STILL gets in the ring and bumps like a mo'fo. How many athletes in other sports have been around that long and STILL doing it?

Mae Young, womens wrestler. In the business 68 years! just turned 84 and was still doing spots just last year. Like wise with Fabulous Moolah.

Superfly is 64 and still makes indy show appearances, was at Vengence this year, and still does the superfly splash from the top rope.

Sgt Slaughter turns 59 this year (august) and is still active.

Killer Kowalski is 80. Lou Thesz had his last match at the ripe old age of 74 and died when he reached 86.

Averages are exactly that. Averages. You can get an average life span of 50 if your only test models involve infants that die at birth and adults that live to 100. It's not a very accurate average though. Don't let your head be clouded by numbers.

SHOULD the state athletic commissions step in to regulate things? Some have, such as Virginia. Football, baseball, basketball, boxing, UFC and MMA are competative sports and are subject to regulation so that one competetor does not have an otherwise unfair advantage over another. However professional wrestling is not a competative sport subject to regulation by the athletic commissions. it's theater that is performed by highly skilled professionals to tell a story. it may require intense levels of athletic ability to do so, but then so does being an acrobat in the circus. Should trapeze artists be regulated by the atheltic commission too then?

[Deadfish07]

If athletic commissions begin cracking down on pro wrestling, WWE is not going to have a problem. With the wellness program, they have paperwork to back up their testing.

Who will get screwed is the independants promotions. As Vince pointed out, out of all these wrestlers that are dead before 65, only five died under his contract. Everyone else died doing their own thing where ever. McMahon isn't responcible for all the pro wrestling in the world, just his own division.

[Mwynn]

McMahon isn't responcible for all the pro wrestling in the world, just his own division.
Because WWE is global and is traded on the stock exchange, they will be the figure head of the hunt.

[Jason Powell]

Key note is that the wrestlers who have died in the last ten years have been in the business for 10 or more years. The career length of a wrestler is dramatically longer then that of any other sports athlete.

Ric Flair has been wrestling for 35 years, is 58 years old, and STILL gets in the ring and bumps like a mo'fo. How many athletes in other sports have been around that long and STILL doing it?

Mae Young, womens wrestler. In the business 68 years! just turned 84 and was still doing spots just last year. Like wise with Fabulous Moolah.

Superfly is 64 and still makes indy show appearances, was at Vengence this year, and still does the superfly splash from the top rope.

Sgt Slaughter turns 59 this year (august) and is still active.

Killer Kowalski is 80. Lou Thesz had his last match at the ripe old age of 74 and died when he reached 86.

Averages are exactly that. Averages. You can get an average life span of 50 if your only test models involve infants that die at birth and adults that live to 100. It's not a very accurate average though. Don't let your head be clouded by numbers.

SHOULD the state athletic commissions step in to regulate things? Some have, such as Virginia. Football, baseball, basketball, boxing, UFC and MMA are competative sports and are subject to regulation so that one competetor does not have an otherwise unfair advantage over another. However professional wrestling is not a competative sport subject to regulation by the athletic commissions. it's theater that is performed by highly skilled professionals to tell a story. it may require intense levels of athletic ability to do so, but then so does being an acrobat in the circus. Should trapeze artists be regulated by the atheltic commission too then?

All wrestlers you mention where in the business back in 50s/60s/70s (before steroid use was so common - I mean come on, do you think a lot of these guys would make it today) and even they are not immuned to what is happening (I mentioned MOONDOG REX who is a legend himself). Sargent Slaughter is not really active. He wrestles once and a while. He hasn't been really active since he came out of the closet in the 80s. The only reason he still wrestles at all is because he is part of the WWE. Ric Flair assaulted a man not to long ago and had multiple run ins with the law. And I am sure you can find others who have done the same.

And you name 6 legends of old school wrestling. I can name at least 13 who died in the last 6 years (all under 50).

Also, athletic commissions do more than regulate just advantages/disadvantages in fights. They also make sure people do not get needlessly hurt do to fatigue and other problems that wrestlers face. I understand this is entertainment but it is time we, as consumers of the product, take some responsibility in helping wrestlers out (whether Indy or pro). We should not allow a guy who has been drinking and partying all night do moonsaults the next day. This is common since.

-Jason

[Ron Phillips]

This is common since.

When?

[The DarkMind]

All wrestlers you mention where in the business back in 50s/60s/70s (before steroid use was so common - I mean come on, do you think a lot of these guys would make it today) and even they are not immuned to what is happening (I mentioned MOONDOG REX who is a legend himself). Sargent Slaughter is not really active. He wrestles once and a while. He hasn't been really active since he came out of the closet in the 80s. The only reason he still wrestles at all is because he is part of the WWE. Ric Flair assaulted a man not to long ago and had multiple run ins with the law. And I am sure you can find others who have done the same.

And you name 6 legends of old school wrestling. I can name at least 13 who died in the last 6 years (all under 50).

Also, athletic commissions do more than regulate just advantages/disadvantages in fights. They also make sure people do not get needlessly hurt do to fatigue and other problems that wrestlers face. I understand this is entertainment but it is time we, as consumers of the product, take some responsibility in helping wrestlers out (whether Indy or pro). We should not allow a guy who has been drinking and partying all night do moonsaults the next day. This is common since.

-Jason

Those wrestlers were given just to show the longevity of careers in comparison to other sports athletes Jason.

However, I am interested in those under 50 who have died in the last 6 years. I fully believe you, i Just want to see who all you come up with.

[Jason Powell]

Those wrestlers were given just to show the longevity of careers in comparison to other sports athletes Jason.

However, I am interested in those under 50 who have died in the last 6 years. I fully believe you, i Just want to see who all you come up with.

Curt Hennig (44), Rick Rude (40), Davey Boy Smith (39), Brian Pillman (35), Bam Bam Bigelow (45), Bobby Duncum Jr. (35), Terry Gordy (40), Junk Yard Dog (though truthfully in a car accident - 46), Chris Beniot (40), Woman (43), Sensational Sherri (42), Owen Hart (34), Road Warrior Hawk (46), and Eddie Guerrero (38), Miss Elizabeth (43). (That is 15 off the top of my head but I am sure there are more.)

-Jason

[L Jamal]

The list of the the last six years should not include
Rick Rude 1999
Brian Pillman 1997
Owen Hart 1999
Bobby Duncum, Jr 2000

of those left
Bigelow died due to a combination of cocaine use and heart disease
Gordy - a blood clot
Henning - cocaine overdose
Dog -car accident
Miss Elizabeth - drug overdose

None of those can be directly attributed to anything that has to do with wrestling.

[The DarkMind]

Curt Hennig (44) - cocaine overdose
Rick Rude (40) - overdose, mixed meds
Davey Boy Smith (39) - heart attack (due to prior heavy use of drugs and steroids)
Brian Pillman (35) - arteriosclerotic heart disease
Bam Bam Bigelow (45) - overdose cocaine and anxiety meds, arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease, and also diabetic.
Bobby Duncum Jr. (35) - prescription drug overdose
Terry Gordy (40) - Heart attack due to blood clot
Junk Yard Dog (though truthfully in a car accident - 46) - fell asleep behind the wheel
Chris Beniot (40) - suicide
Woman (43) - murdered
Sensational Sherri (42) - results not released yet
Owen Hart (34) - fell to his death during an entrance stunt
Road Warrior Hawk (46) - heart attack
Eddie Guerrero (38) - arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease
Miss Elizabeth (43) - overdose, medication and alcohol

Good examples. :) Lots of heart problems for those not directly killed by overdose. Many had heart disease that had gone undiagnosed (wrestlers don't have health insurance so they normally only see docs when they are injured).

Now, here's the thing... these people are working in a high stress, high physical demand occupation without an off season to rest like every single pro sport has. that puts a lot of strain on the heart and body in general. tack on those who had a history of drug use and/or steroid use... it makes their time run out even faster. There was also Russ Haas in 2001. 27 years old. He had a known heart ailment and had just been cleared to return to training when he died of a heart attack.

It IS tragic when a list like this can be rattled off. However, in the time it took me to write this, how many people across the country have died for these exact same reasons who have never wrestled a day in their life? The only difference is that the wrestlers are in the public eye so we KNOW about their death and we know who it is that died. Pick up the paper and read through the Obituaries some time. I can almost guarantee if you're in a major metropolitan area, you'll triple this list in less then a week.

EDIT: and i ignored the fact that some of these are beyond the 6 year mark (as ljamal pointed out) because my point still stands.

[Pacmanshead]

Mystery surrounds Benoit Wikipedia Post (http://news.aol.com/sports/story/_a/wrestler-benoit-family-dead/20070626091709990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001)

[The Dag]

yeah he suffocated the kid...


he used a choke hold on him...

[MatthewMonster]

The story that keeps on giving....

From Impact Wrestling:

The FOX News show Hannity & Colmes devoted a lot of time to the Chris Benoit story tonight.

- Debra Marshall, the ex-wife of Steve Austin, appeared on the show and really continued to paint a horrific picture of Steve Austin as a steroid user and wife beater.

- She said that she has seen Austin do steroids.

- She said that wrestling is a very hush-hush business and that everyone in WWE knew that Austin was beating her but nobody stepped in because Austin was the company’s top star.

- She said she knows that steroids had a lot to do with Austin’s attacks on her.

- She said that WWE basically forced her to not say anything about Austin abusing her because, again, Austin was their top star.

- She said that WWE is trying to downplay the connection between Benoit and steroids because they are good at deflecting heat off themselves. She recounted an incident where she believes that Austin attacked her during a steroid rage, saying he pounded her and that his eyes looked like they would bug out of his head. She called the incident the most horrifying thing she has ever seen. She said that when she finally was able to call the cops, Austin ripped out the phone lines, unplugged the garage door opener, and basically tried to lock her in the house.

- Superstar Billy Graham appeared on the show and said that Vince McMahon and WWE are not responsible for this tragedy, comparing it to whether the San Francisco Giants would be responsible if Barry Bonds killed somebody. He said that these are grown men and they have to be accountable for themselves. He also downplayed roid rage, saying he has been using steroids since 1967.

- An in-staff analysis stated that Vince McMahon got himself into trouble by issuing a press release downplaying the role of steroids in this tragedy before anybody was even blaming steroids. The analysis wondered why WWE would be so defensive in the first place. The analysis also said that when you hogtie your wife and strangle her to death, that is rage.

- They briefly discussed the mysterious Wikipedia post situation.

- Debra said that Billy Graham has not been on the receiving end of steroid rage. She said that Austin to this day doesn’t even think he did anything to her. After being pushed a bit, Graham admitted that his wife has been on the receiving end of his rage from steroids and other drugs, but said that Benoit tested negative for steroids. Debra said he tested negative back in April and could have been on them now.

[Mr.Musgrave]

You have to wonder how many people are going to use this tragedy to their own advantage. Or apparently you don't. Personally, I've never been one to outright trust the word of an ex-spouse/ex-employee. And Billy Graham is right. The only person to blame here is Benoit himself. The WWE did not tie him down and force steroids into his system. He did that of his own choosing.

[MatthewMonster]

You honestly think WWE dosent at the very least encoruage gusy to get as big as they can, anyway they can ?

[L Jamal]

You honestly think WWE dosent at the very least encoruage gusy to get as big as they can, anyway they can ?
Even if they do, the guys arre fully aware of the effects of steriods and have the ability to tell Vince to go fuck himself.

[spider]

As it stands, I've always thought they were too demanding of their wrestlers anyways.
You have to be a certain height, build, wrestle in the WWE "style" etc.

[Mr.Musgrave]

You honestly think WWE dosent at the very least encoruage gusy to get as big as they can, anyway they can ?


Like Jamal said, it's still entirely on the wrestlers heads. I had to take steroids when my lungs started crapping out and when the steroids started making me wonky, I quit taking them. I can't breathe as well but I'm also not completely wigged out all the time either. My doctor encouraged me to take them and I chose not to. Personal responsibility.

The only one who deserves any sort of blame is Benoit. The whole "Vince is the devil" thing is absolutely ridiculous.

[Jason Powell]

First, I said other drugs as well, let's not forget that. Second, heart problems are one of the side effects of steroid use. Also arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease can be caused by steroids. Third, Miss Elizabeth dyed of an overdose of a type of steroid Luger was using. Fourth, I also mentioned the stress of being on the road (hence forth a car accident). Fifth, that is only 4 people who died more than six years, still leaving 11 - all within ten years. Sixth, all where current or former WWF/WWE/WCW wrestlers which ties them all to wrestling.

Also Jamal, Owen died during a "wrestling" stunt - so his death can definitely be tied to wrestling.

My point remains the same.

WWE, and the wrestling industry as a whole, may not be pulling the trigger or even putting the gun in their hands (so-to-speak) but they do seem to be allowing wrestlers to have the guns (and by guns I mean alcohol, drugs ((especially steroids)), and the hectic schedule) and death and tragedy are a common factor. And their response is basically, "GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE." Which is true but guns make it a whole lot easier.

While I agree it wouldn't solve everything, a independent commission could help prevent some of these things.

-Jason

[Kraven27]

You honestly think WWE dosent at the very least encoruage gusy to get as big as they can, anyway they can ?

Actually, since they've instigated their testing, there has been noticable changes to some wrestlers. Prime example would be Chris Masters, who came into the WWE looking huge and ripped, since the testing he's a helluva lot smaller now.

[Jason Powell]

Actually, since they've instigated their testing, there has been noticable changes to some wrestlers. Prime example would be Chris Masters, who came into the WWE looking huge and ripped, since the testing he's a helluva lot smaller now.

But Masters has been increasing in mass and WWE has become more lax in instigating their testing, as I stated before.

-Jason

[Mr.Musgrave]

You don't know that for certain and the those "putting the gun" in the wrestler's hands are the doctors, not the WWE. No one forces them to take the drugs. No one.

[Jason Powell]

You don't know that for certain and the those "putting the gun" in the wrestler's hands are the doctors, not the WWE. No one forces them to take the drugs. No one.

However WWE encourages them to be bigger (how many small wrestlers make it the WWE - I can name two <-- and even those two have admitted to using in the past), they do force them to be on the road a lot (in fact they fire them if they miss too many shows), and what happens if they refuse to take the bumps (that cause them pain) WWE requires? And you decide, have or have not the WWE become lax in their drug testing policy?

And yes, I know for sure they have become lax in their drug policies. They just changed them a few months back to where they where not suspending wrestlers as long (in fact, in some cases, not at all - Rand Orton is a perfect example) and the wrestlers had to pay a fine.

Like I said, they are not putting the guns in the wrestlers hands, they are just allowing it. They shouldn't be allowing it. These are illegal activities that the WWE knows is happening and they just turn their back to it and role the dice.

-Jason

[Mr.Musgrave]

No, you don't know for sure. You're just another smark. And there are ways to become bigger without using drugs. The wrestlers choose, of their own free will, to use those drugs. The responsibility lies with Benoit alone.

[Jason Powell]

No, you don't know for sure. You're just another smark. And there are ways to become bigger without using drugs. The wrestlers choose, of their own free will, to use those drugs. The responsibility lies with Benoit alone.

Hmmm???? Just another smark, hunh? --> http://www.wrestleview.com/news2006/1157672260.shtml.

-Jason

[L Jamal]

First, I said other drugs as well, let's not forget that. Second, heart problems are one of the side effects of steroid use. Also arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease can be caused by steroids. Third, Miss Elizabeth dyed of an overdose of a type of steroid Luger was using. Fourth, I also mentioned the stress of being on the road (hence forth a car accident). Fifth, that is only 4 people who died more than six years, still leaving 11 - all within ten years. Sixth, all where current or former WWF/WWE/WCW wrestlers which ties them all to wrestling.

Also Jamal, Owen died during a "wrestling" stunt - so his death can definitely be tied to wrestling.

Wrestling wasn't the cause of any of those deaths. On the job accidents happen outside of wrestling. Owen's death was due to poor safety not wrestling, remove wrestling from the equation and the result is the same.

Elizabeth was never a wrestler she was a valet/ manager no cause for her to be anything but eye candy, so tell me how that results in a drug overdose that is somehow the fault of wreslting.

If you are pinning your stress arguement on one car accident death, then you're arguement is poor. Statistically speaking, wrestlers as a part of the general populace should have been involved in more fatal accidents. If anything that's evidence of wrestlers being better drivers than the average driver.

Heart disease is second only to cancer as a health problem in the US so at most you could say that drug use contributed to the problem, you definitely can't say drug caused the problem.

[Mr.Musgrave]

Hmmm???? Just another smark, hunh? --> http://www.wrestleview.com/news2006/1157672260.shtml.

-Jason


Did you seriously just use a smark sheet to defend the fact that you aren't a smark? This thread is getting more and more Powelled up.

[L Jamal]

Did you expect something different?

[Jason Powell]

Wrestling wasn't the cause of any of those deaths. On the job accidents happen outside of wrestling. Owen's death was due to poor safety not wrestling, remove wrestling from the equation and the result is the same.

Elizabeth was never a wrestler she was a valet/ manager no cause for her to be anything but eye candy, so tell me how that results in a drug overdose that is somehow the fault of wreslting.

If you are pinning your stress arguement on one car accident death, then you're arguement is poor. Statistically speaking, wrestlers as a part of the general populace should have been involved in more fatal accidents. If anything that's evidence of wrestlers being better drivers than the average driver.

Heart disease is second only to cancer as a health problem in the US so at most you could say that drug use contributed to the problem, you definitely can't say drug caused the problem.

Owen dyed performing a "wrestling" stunt. He wouldn't have been up there (he was reportedly scared of heights for God's sake) if it where not for wrestling. So yes, wrestling was directly responsible.

And wrestling did cause them to use drugs. How, because they are required to be a certain size (and drugs are an easy way out), and work through extreme pain. Both reasons to use drugs. The question you should be asking is, would they be using steroids or pain medication if it where not for wrestling? Most likely not, cause why would they? Cocaine and alcohol are a different story but I would bet they wrestling led to those also.

And why was Miss Elizabeth using steroids. Because her boyfriend (Lex Lugar) was. Why was he? Answer above.

Also, there has been more than one car accident involving wrestlers (only a few have resulted in death). Also a lot of traveling is done by plane, bus, and other means of traveling, not just driving. Use commons since Jamal.

While we are at it, all those heart conditions came with reports of long term drug use. Look it up. Drugs may not have caused the deaths but they did cause the enlarged hearts, clouted valves, ect... that did.

You guys are talking to a long term wrestling fan. I even work with an ex wrestler today. Alcohol, drugs, traveling, and partying are all just part of the lifestyle. This is reported over and over and over again. So saying WWE and all the wrestling organizations do not hold some responsibility for ignoring it is crazy. They know, they just don't care as long as the old mighty green back keeps coming in and that is a shame. That is all I am saying.

-Jason

[Jason Powell]

Did you seriously just use a smark sheet to defend the fact that you aren't a smark? This thread is getting more and more Powelled up.

Honestly, what the hell is a "SMARK" or "SMARK SHEET"? I never heard of that. But if you care to research, you can find reports over and over of the fact WWE has changed their wellness policy as mentioned and you can see proof in the fact that RANDY ORTON is still wrestling. It has only been a little over a month since he tore up the hotel room (http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/2007/articles/1179270023.php).

-Jason

[L Jamal]

You guys are talking to a long term wrestling fan. I even work with an ex wrestler today. Alcohol, drugs, traveling, and partying are all just part of the lifestyle. This is reported over and over and over again. So saying WWE and all the wrestling organizations do not hold some responsibility for ignoring it is crazy.

I'm sure at some point some one has explained cause and effect to you. If not, I'm not going to be that person. I'm simply going to say that if your lifestyle leads to your death, then the problem is the lifestyle that you chose and not the profession. Just because the profession and the lifestyle are linked does make the profession the fault of the way you choose to live. It's your choice, your decision, your life, your responsibility.

Until you show me proof that wrestling is pouring these drug cocktails down their throats, it still comes back to personal responsibility and personal choices. Elizabeth is the prime example of that. No reason to use drugs, no pressure to use drugs for her chosen profession, not even a wrestler and yet dead from a drug overdose. If you blame wrestling for Elizabeth's death (and you did) then how do you account for all those that live her same lifestyle without the wrestling connection dying from drug overdoses? Is Lex and Vince forcing drugs on them as well?

[Mr.Musgrave]

Honestly, what the hell is a "SMARK" or "SMARK SHEET"? I never heard of that.

You're a long term wrestling fan who's never heard the term "smark" despite the fact that you ARE a smark? That's funny.

[Mr.Musgrave]

Did you expect something different?

No, but one can always hope.

[L Jamal]

No, but one can always hope.
All ye who enter in this madness should surrender all hope.

[The DarkMind]

Honestly, what the hell is a "SMARK" or "SMARK SHEET"? I never heard of that.

go ask the ex-wrestler you work with what these terms are :laugh:

seriously though, just to derail your rant i'll repeat myself.....

However, in the time it took me to write this, how many people across the country have died for these exact same reasons who have never wrestled a day in their life? The only difference is that the wrestlers are in the public eye so we KNOW about their death and we know who it is that died. Pick up the paper and read through the Obituaries some time. I can almost guarantee if you're in a major metropolitan area, you'll triple this list in less then a week.

[BEN DENNIS]

So,... I'm too lazy to read back and see if this was actually posted, but has anyone read these comments by Bruce Hart?
Finally, we're seeing a not-so-optimistic inside perspective...



Bruce Hart Calls Benoit A "Delusional Juice Freak"
Date Added: June 29, 2007
Story By: Tim Brown
The following is from The Toronto Sun

Chris Benoit was a "delusional juice freak" who chased the dark side and had trouble distinguishing between his fictional character and reality, says the man who started him out in professional wrestling.

"The last time I saw him he was in pretty rough shape mentally," said Bruce Hart, son of the legendary Stu Hart. "I didn't know all the details but I knew it wasn't good. I was not at all shocked (by what happened).

"If I could see and determine that in a few visits, how the hell could they (World Wrestling Entertainment) not have known something was wrong? (In my opinion) I think the WWE needs to re-evaluate what it is doing here."

Hart will not simplify the shocking murder of Benoit's wife and 7-year-old son or the eventual suicide of the wrestler by attributing it only to steroid usage. But he truly believes that steroid abuse, in combination with delusional behaviour, painkillers and failing health -- "almost all the people we started out with (who did steroids) began breaking down around 40," Hart said -- is a deadly cocktail that needs to be further examined.

"I've known too many wrestlers who couldn't separate the character they play on television from their real life," said Hart, who has wrestled professionally, promoted wrestling and trained wrestlers all his life.

"Wrestlers start believing their press clippings and what is said on television. It's like an actor leaving the set but still playing the part. There's a delusional element to this. I've seen it over and over again. Some people can't separate the character from real life, and Chris was one of those people.

"From my experience, that has been quite prevalent with wrestlers and that becomes exacerbated by steroids, drugs, painkillers and failing health."

They hadn't seen each other much over the past few years, with Hart still in Calgary and Benoit working the circuit. "We saw each other mostly at funerals," Hart said. "At my brother's (Owen), my dad's, my brother-in-law's (Davey Boy Smith). Not that long ago I was talking to Hillbilly Jim and we were reminiscing a little. I told him I was worried about Chris."

While the WWE has a drug-testing policy, Hart believes they should bring in psychologists and physicians to evaluate not only their drug-testing procedures but how they treat their athletes, deal with them, and the toll their gimmicks take on the lives of their performers.

"Imagine if Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Mark Messier were all dead in their 40s. Imagine what the reaction would be?" Hart asked. "There would be investigations and more investigations. Wouldn't people want to know what happened and why?"

Hart was also deeply angered that the WWE aired a three-hour tribute to Benoit on Monday night.

"I kept hearing 'He was a nice guy, a great guy' and I knew him when he was a kid. But all I know now is he's a murderer," Hart said. In my opinion, "for them to do a tribute show was disgraceful."

Officials at WWE Canada refused to comment yesterday.

WWE owner Vince McMahon told NBC Today Show viewers yesterday that "steroids may or may not have had anything to do with this. It's all speculation until the toxicology reports come back."

Hart did wonder if Benoit had been given an unfavourable medical report, which may been another factor in his violent behaviour. "A lot of the steroid users start getting liver and kidney problems around the age of 40," Hart said. "There are a lot of wrestlers out there who are dead that you never heard about whose bodies broke down. I've known others who had looming health issues and went a little crazy. Maybe this caused him to go off."

[L Jamal]

If Bruce was so concerned why didn't he intervene. I have a problem with anyone who says that they are concerned and a friend, but sit back and do nothing.

[Gonzogoose]

If Bruce was so concerned why didn't he intervene. I have a problem with anyone who says that they are concerned and a friend, but sit back and do nothing.

And that's basically what writer Bob Ryder over at 1wrestling.com said about Bruce Hart's comments:

One might ask Bruce Hart if he was such a close friend of Chris Benoit, and if he noticed such irrational behavior, and if he thought the man would be capable of such a horrific act...why didn't HE do something about it. I'm in no way defending Chris Benoit, and I'm not saying WWE hasn't made mistakes in their handling of this and other situations. I just think it's a pretty convenient for people like Bruce Hart to come out now saying they saw it coming.

[Jason Powell]

You're a long term wrestling fan who's never heard the term "smark" despite the fact that you ARE a smark? That's funny.

Is it possible you mean "SMERK" or "SMIRK"? Cause "SMARK" is not a word.

-SIN-
Jason

[Mwynn]

Smark
Combination of Smart and Mark, Mark meaning a wrestling fan who believes (or temporarily suspends his disbelief) in pro wrestling. The Smark is the fan who knows wrestling is choreographed, but appreciates it on a higher level.

[kdmelrose]

Is it possible you mean "SMERK" or "SMIRK"? Cause "SMARK" is not a word.

It's a slang term used in wrestling fandom.

[Mike225]

Is it possible you mean "SMERK" or "SMIRK"? Cause "SMARK" is not a word.

-SIN-
JasonDid you check every resource available?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=smark

[kdmelrose]

Smark
Combination of Smart and Mark, Mark meaning a wrestling fan who believes (or temporarily suspends his disbelief) in pro wrestling. The Smark is the fan who knows wrestling is choreographed, but appreciates it on a higher level.

You're probably wanting the other definition: someone who claims to have inside information on pro wrestling because he reads rumors posted by other, well, smarks.

[Jason Powell]

I'm sure at some point some one has explained cause and effect to you. If not, I'm not going to be that person. I'm simply going to say that if your lifestyle leads to your death, then the problem is the lifestyle that you chose and not the profession. Just because the profession and the lifestyle are linked does make the profession the fault of the way you choose to live. It's your choice, your decision, your life, your responsibility.

Until you show me proof that wrestling is pouring these drug cocktails down their throats, it still comes back to personal responsibility and personal choices. Elizabeth is the prime example of that. No reason to use drugs, no pressure to use drugs for her chosen profession, not even a wrestler and yet dead from a drug overdose. If you blame wrestling for Elizabeth's death (and you did) then how do you account for all those that live her same lifestyle without the wrestling connection dying from drug overdoses? Is Lex and Vince forcing drugs on them as well?

Jamal, you are misunderstanding my point. I am not blaming their deaths (other than Owens) on wrestling, rather the lifestyle they live because of wrestling. If they where not wrestling then they, most likely, would not be living this lifestyle. So they are connected. That is why I said we need a independent commission to control the lifestyle, not the wrestling. Personally I think their is enough wrestlers that they could do a show quarterly or seasonally (like have 3 or 4 months of RAW and then 3 or 4 months of Smackdown and then a few months of ECW). In the down time,the only thing wrestlers would be permitted to do is train (drug free) for the next season. Also, have doctors examine them regularly for drugs and alcohol abuse and if they find anything, suspend the wrestler for the season (no ifs, ands, or buts). Also examine their personal lives. If they commit a crime or something, punish them with fines.

-Jason

[Mwynn]

Benoit would have had to use roids because of his broken neck. During rehab he could not work out. Same with Buff Bagwell.

Others I suspect.
Bobby Lashley
Edge
Chris Masters
Macho Man
Scott Steiner

[L Jamal]

I am not blaming their deaths (other than Owens) on wrestling, rather the lifestyle they live because of wrestling. If they where not wrestling then they, most likely, would not be living this lifestyle.

My point is and always has been .... being self-destructive is not limited to wrestling. It's not caused by wrestling. It exists outside of wrestling. Some wrestlers are self destructive but that's not the fault of wrestling any more than some rock stars being self-destructive is the fault of the music industry.

[Jason Powell]

Smark
Combination of Smart and Mark, Mark meaning a wrestling fan who believes (or temporarily suspends his disbelief) in pro wrestling. The Smark is the fan who knows wrestling is choreographed, but appreciates it on a higher level.

Okay, I have heard mark but I have never heard of a smark. Something new.

Okay, here a quick list of people talking about the change::
http://www.wrestleview.com/news2006/1157672260.shtml
http://headlineplanet.com/home/2006/09/05/change-to-wwe-wellness-policy/
http://www.wrestlinginc.com/v2/wi/stc/nws/2006/9/8/19674.shtml
http://www.prowrestlingscoops.com/article/156114350.php

And there are plenty more.

-Jason

[Mike225]

Scott SteinerWhat makes you think this? :rolleyes:

[Jason Powell]

Benoit would have had to use roids because of his broken neck. During rehab he could not work out. Same with Buff Bagwell.

Others I suspect.
Bobby Lashley
Edge
Chris Masters
Macho Man
Scott Steiner

How did they break their necks? Answer: Wrestling

[Mike225]

How did they break their necks? Answer: WrestlingIs this your argument? "There are injuries in wrestling, so Chris Benoit killed his family."?

[L Jamal]

Is this your argument? "There are injuries in wrestling, so Chris Benoit killed his family."?
Yes, that's his argument.
Completely logical and without fault.