spidey hawkeye daredevil color tests

[Ielle77]

ok these are all by Spideyguile at deviant art. Those that are inked are by josh templeton (also of deviant art) the color obviously is mine lol.

I'm trying to accomplish the strange moody look that the colorist who has done daredevil and New Avengers issue 26 (where hawkeye seeks out wanda) creates. I'm not there yet, but i'm happy with what i have thus far.

anyway let me know what you guys think! :)

Daredevil pencils by Guile (http://spiderguile.deviantart.com/) on deviantart:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/386/daredevilcs6.jpg
Hawkeye pencils by guile, (http://spiderguile.deviantart.com/) inks by josh templeton (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/50534523/?qo=25&q=by%3Ajoshtempleton&qh=sort%3Atime+-in%3Ascraps) both on deviantart:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/112/hawkeyegx4.jpg
spidey pencils by guile, (http://spiderguile.deviantart.com/) inks by josh templeton (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/50534523/?qo=25&q=by%3Ajoshtempleton&qh=sort%3Atime+-in%3Ascraps) both on deviantart:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/513443213_91acd2329d_o.jpg

[feinminen]

Colors are way too dark can barely see what's beneath.

[James Thorpe]

Yes, very murky. Hawkeye's background is quite nice, in a stylistic way, and his colours have a nice '80s feel (ie, flat and unsaturated, but quite harmonious). So as an '80s pastiche, it's good, but as a modern piece of colouring, it's not really on, and the other pics even less so. The backgrounds for Spidey and DD are rendered far too murky by that seeming green fog that obscures them, and the characters themselves are far too close to black in their colour values -- the only clearly decipherable parts of them are the highlights, and that's just not right, in daylight pinups like this.

Let's have a look at DD in Photoshop...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/samadriel/DD-with-histogram.jpg
Look at that histogram! This picture is lurking in the dark.

As an experiment, I drag the slider on the right to the point where the histogram peters out, and I get:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/samadriel/daredevil-levels-adjusted.jpg
I was surprised at how much better it immediately looked -- maybe a little oversaturated, but still, that gives it a certain 'Saturday morning' pop.
So, I like the hues you've chosen (now that I can see them, heh heh); you just need to give it a little (no, make that 'a lot') more brightness and saturation. Then comes the matter of tone, reflection, texture, etc, but first thing's first -- bring 'em out of the dark.

[Ielle77]

thanks for the tips guys.

Yeah this as an experiment. I really like the work that Alex Maleev does (er did for daredevil and an issue of the avengers). So i'm trying to see if i can do a version of it. but i still need to work on light sources and such. It won't be saturday morning cartoons. But more like earth tones. That's just the style. But i'll certainly make sure if i'm doing a lighter comic one to use your advice.

What i'm trying to do now is figure out how to get the highlights that Maleev does so that, as feinminen said, the art doesn't get lost in the colors. hmmm

here's a couple of pages of what i was shooting for. I scanned my copy just so you could see his style. Obviously all the art is Maleev and the story is by bendis.
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6793/sdbe7.jpg

and now a more blue one that i was trying base hawkeye off of, but it's my first attempt so i kinda missed it.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5165/sdfyw1.jpg

any suggestions as to where i went wrong trying to copy this style? I'd love any insight you guys might have. I find sometimes i look at my stuff and i just can't see it like an outside artist can :p

[James Thorpe]

It could just be the scans, but I think those pages themselves are a touch too dark, in panels like the 'Bonk!' falling guy, the tossing-up-the-paper panel, and the final panel -- I firmly believe that murkiness is something dictated by the work of the line-artist/inker, and that colourists shouldn't sow 'confusion', only cooperate with it if it's already there in the lines (a picture of Batman bathed almost completely in shadow would necessitate a bit of murkiness, for example).

But anyway! Let's compare Maleev's pages to your Hawkeye pic, whish I daresay is your most successful stab at this style.

The linchpins seem to be low-saturation colours -- dusty blues and oranges, pale yellows, ochre and sepia browns, and off-white/cream highlights on pale things like skin or the cobblestones -- and a fairly limited palette, as if Maleev was working in spot colours and thus couldn't using the whole gamut (although it was probably just a stylistic choice). You've got those elements down pretty well in your Hawkeye piece.

But although the palette is muted, Maleev is evidently willing, when necessary, to get a much more bright and saturated than you currently are -- he uses that brightness and vividity to make the darkness of his characters and objects pop out against a light background, or vice versa -- see how the characters in the chase or 'bonk!' panels are so easily seen against the bright BG. Your Hawkeye lacks this, because the buildings against which he's set have the same palette, at the same saturation, that he does. A man in purple, mauve and brown midtones, against purple, mauve and brown midtoned buildings (with an interesting greenish sky, which unfortunately is not touching him, so it doesn't help him stand out). I suggest using a different palette for the BG, and then either make the BG darker and Hawkeye lighter and more vivid, or vice-versa (I recommend the former, since it's an action pinup with outdoor lighting, not a sequential, and thus the character should be the focus, more than the setting). Of course, you don't want to go as lurid as my little Daredevil experiment, but note that Maleev himself is not averse to being fairly vivid as the occasion demands, and also that he doesn't smother the canvas with paint -- his loose brush strokes let the 'light' of the canvas through in panels like the 'picking up an orange' one, and the newspaper panels. In contrast, the heavy, solid green of the sky in your Hawkeye pic means that there's no reprieve anywhere in that image from the overall mid-tone range that overwhelms it.

Basically, I think you're restricting yourself way too much in only using midtones -- the signature of that style isn't sticking to midtones, but in using a limited, stylistic palette, and keeping saturation (remember, saturation and brightness are very different things!) to a pleasant, earthy low. So, if you remind yourself not to be afraid to use lighter, airier shades of your chosen colours (and perhaps experiment with Photoshop brushes rather than flood-fills in places like the sky, if you're all-digital), and remember to keep the character and the background visibly distinct from each other using some form of contrast, you'll come a long way very quickly.

[bigeats270]

I think that what you're missing out on is the contrast between the highlights and shadows. On the Maleev pages, especially the first one, the highlights are alot stronger than you may think just by looking at it. Two good experiments to do in photoshop are to open your page next to the Maleev pages. Eyedrop your brightest highlight, and paint a blotch of it over some white. Then do the same with your deepest shadow. Then do the same with the Maleev pages. I think you'll be surprised how far apart his light and shadows are compared to yours, and you'll have a better idea of how much farther you can push your contrast. The other thing I would recommend is losing the texture that covers the entire page. There are much better ways to get these effects with brushes that are less... (can't think of a better word than) intrusive.

The other experiment is to change your images to black and white. If you can't tell what is going on with it in black and white, then it's not going to work in color either.

That'll be two cents please.

[Ielle77]

lol... um i only have a 100 dollar bill, can you break that?

thanks for the imput guys. i'll definitely see what i can do about the highlights. I see what you mean. I really noticed it with the apple Clint is picking up, that's really nice yellow green apple and very bright.

So i'll see what i can do. Thanks again! :)