Scarlet Witch

[The DarkMind]

Tell me what you think
http://home.comcast.net/~thedarkmind/superhero/scarletwitch.jpg

[thecarrierone]

her neck is disjointed and her center line is messed up.
think about it this way
draw an imaginary line from her collar bone to her belly button. does that seem like a natural line to you?

i think you have some good lines here but i think that you have the wrong look for the character and she seems too erotic...
kinda looks like lanny barbie... tee hee...
ok goofs aside.... it doesnt have to be psuedo porno erotic to be sexy. and youll have to deal with people telling you how "obscene" it is. not worth the hassel.

[zombiekiller 013]

it looks ok, i would pay more focus on the face and the hands. the pose is a bit provocative, but the body looks ok. it doesn't seem that the facial features are lined up with the headshape or maybe it's the hairline. as for the scarlet witch, i always thought she had a bit more class even though she's wearing hardly anything.

[xaltair]

There's small anatomical issues, but i don't mind the pose at all. :banana:

[chaosgoat]

I'm going to really honest. The porno-pose is really turning me OFF to this picture. That's not an image I like to see in comic book heroines, especially ones as powerful as SW. It's also an image that has gotten comic books a really bad rap. It's bad enough that the medium is often considered "cheap art" that's barely better than pornography, if it's considered art at all. Why perpetuate this negative image that has crippled the industry in the past 50 years? I like tits as much as the next reader, but frankly, I take alot of pride in the medium, and I'm working really hard to convince people that it's more than just big tits, shiny guns, and spandex. Please take into consideration the next time you feel inclined to do a piece like this.

Wow I came off as really harsh... Sorry. Preaching aside, I think you have a good strong style that has the potential to go really far with practice and study.

[The Scribe]

I agree with chaosgoat.

This might be fine for a Max or Vertigo comic but not for a mainstream character. I don't buy "mature" comic titles.

[The DarkMind]

I like tits as much as the next reader, but frankly, I take alot of pride in the medium, and I'm working really hard to convince people that it's more than just big tits, shiny guns, and spandex.

It is?!?!?! (little joke there...laugh dammit!)
seriously though, I think I kept the breasts of a resonable and realistic size (small C) and held true to the proportions and positioning of the girl that modeled the pose for me with extremly little embellishment. I prefer to keep my girls as realistic as possible (maybe i just know hot well figured chicks which distorts my sense of realistic), especially when "erotic" images are requested. The pose itself itsn't overly graphic, it just shows a more sensual side of the character that is never explored without it being sexually exposing or graphic.

Appreciate the kind words at the end though, thank you :)

[The Anti-crest]

I'm going to really honest. The porno-pose is really turning me OFF to this picture. That's not an image I like to see in comic book heroines, especially ones as powerful as SW. It's also an image that has gotten comic books a really bad rap. It's bad enough that the medium is often considered "cheap art" that's barely better than pornography, if it's considered art at all. Why perpetuate this negative image that has crippled the industry in the past 50 years? I like tits as much as the next reader, but frankly, I take alot of pride in the medium, and I'm working really hard to convince people that it's more than just big tits, shiny guns, and spandex. Please take into consideration the next time you feel inclined to do a piece like this.

Wow I came off as really harsh... Sorry. Preaching aside, I think you have a good strong style that has the potential to go really far with practice and study.


Great post.

[Defpotec]

Quicksilver's in that pic too, he's just so fast you can't see him. ;)

[The DarkMind]

Quicksilver's in that pic too, he's just so fast you can't see him. ;)

okay...if that's taken the wrong way with the expression on Wanda's face...that's just really REALLY sick :confused:

[Cat]

I'm going to really honest. The porno-pose is really turning me OFF to this picture. That's not an image I like to see in comic book heroines, especially ones as powerful as SW. It's also an image that has gotten comic books a really bad rap. It's bad enough that the medium is often considered "cheap art" that's barely better than pornography, if it's considered art at all. Why perpetuate this negative image that has crippled the industry in the past 50 years? I like tits as much as the next reader, but frankly, I take alot of pride in the medium, and I'm working really hard to convince people that it's more than just big tits, shiny guns, and spandex. Please take into consideration the next time you feel inclined to do a piece like this.

Wow I came off as really harsh... Sorry. Preaching aside, I think you have a good strong style that has the potential to go really far with practice and study.
I couldn't have said it better myself.. i will only add that sublte sexuality goes a lot farther than blantent. But keeping it within the Character's character is also important.

[Rich]

Hey Darkmind,

I have to say I hope you don't listen to a word that Chaosgoat, The Scribe and Anti-Crest say. No disrespect to you guys but have you never even seen a european comic?? I'm the first to agree that breasts and guns type comics are a waste of time, but this whole view of comics was perpetuated by the awful dredge that was being published in the early nineties.

Having comic characters have sex or get naked is just reflecting real life and if its drawn well I don't see a problem with it. I do see a big problem with not allowing mainstream characters to appear in MAX titles. The She-Devil series by Frank Cho is a great example, what harm would it have done to leave the nudity in there????

There will always be kids comics, there will always be comics inbetween and there will always be adult comics, just live with and drop the Mary Whithouse, Conservative witch-hunt.

Anyway, that said onto the picture. As others have discussed the anatomy is a little awkward, but I like the feel of the lines. I would say that the hands need a little work, they don't have the 3d aspect of the rest of the picture.

Cheers,
Rich

[The DarkMind]

Thank you Rich, maybe I'm just living in the wrong country.

I would also like to finally point this out to the lot of you. This is a forum to showcase artwork. When an image is posted it is to gain feedback on structure, line work, and over-all composition. At no point in time does that involve your personal beliefs on morality or if the subject matter turns you off because you have something against sensuality, pornography, or violence. I have plenty of other places that Joe Public can get into morality debates on the subject matter with me, my work was brought here among my peers for constructive criticism which I have received surprisingly little of on anything I've posted.

As to what is structurally wrong, thank you to those on the points made that i see and agree with. The hands need work, I've known about that and have been working on improving. It is a difficult part of the anatomy which I know many artists struggle with. The collar line leading into her left shoulder is off and distorted. The center line however I have to disagree with as many people use the center line as a fixed point of references as opposed to taking into account there is a three dimensional surface surrounding that line which can twist and turn laterally not just move forwards and backwards. The center line is also only primarily used for a point of balance. The arch of the back and the twist of the torso is perfectly natural, and I know this because the lady friend I had model the pose had no difficulty getting into the position repeatedly and was able to hold it comfortably. Now either she was triple jointed and I was the luckiest S.O.B on the face of the planet that night, or there are people here that only know about center lines from what was learned reading "How to" books rather then observing the female form moving two feet in front of them.

With that said I still have hope of getting further critiques that don't involve personal ethics.

[xaltair]

I totally agree with you. If the pic had SW spread legged with a snake coming or going insider her naughty place then i'd be screaming and yelling too. But it's nowhere close to that and like i said there's anatomy issues but aside from that i find nothing wrong with it. :har:

[Cat]

I did not say there was no place for the stuff..I am just saying you have to concider the character you are portraying..if it fits the character GO FOR IT (like if this was Enchantress insted of SW) otherwise it doesn't work. It is more like watching your parents have sex. And that is important to your crits as much as your line work the anatomy work.

[thecarrierone]

i didnt say that you didnt have a model
im saying that the pose looks slightly off. thats what happens when you take whats in front of you run it through your brain and down into the hand, mystakes get made. the picture isnt perfect
hands aside the actual body needs refining.
comic bullshit aside if this was infront of me as a nude figure drawing i would say the same thing.

[thecarrierone]

wow that was weird.... me and cat started our posts the same way....

[Rich]

Hey Cat,

YOUR PARENTS HAVE SEX get over it!

SCARLET WITCH isn't real, she's an imaginary creation based on reality, and believe me anyone that hot in reality, is having a lot of sex.

It's not about there being a place for that stuff, it's about that stuff adding something to a character or story.

I great example of how not to do this is Greg Land. What the f**k is Ultimate Power, his story telling ability is arse and it's just virtual traces of lingerie models, yet everyone freaks out over it. Well Darkminds picture has more personality than any of Greg Lands vacant superheroines. How ever you want to look at it, Sojourn was just T&A for the Lord of the Rings generation.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but it annoys me that people have to be so close minded about something just cos it's marvel or whatever...

Cheers,
Rich

[Cat]

Hey Cat,

YOUR PARENTS HAVE SEX get over it!


well Rich...when my Father was ALIVE..yes obviously or my brother and I would not be here...but that doesn't mean I wanted to WATCH! Chillax dood.


Look as I SAID already..there is nothing wrong with addin sexuality to these characters..but keep it IN character..

[Phatman]

I think the point that a lot of people are making isn't about content as much as context. The pose doesn't jive with the character.

Artistically, the rendering is a little unrefined and there are several anatomy issues (especially in the collarbone region). If you want to work on scantily clad females, you need to have your anatomy down better-no clothes to hide your mistakes.

[Phatman]

I'd be interested if all the fanboys like Rich would like it as much if this was a scantilly clad Vision fondly his own "parts" with the same expression. :p

Nootch.

[ChrisMcJunkin]

Thank you Rich, maybe I'm just living in the wrong country.

I would also like to finally point this out to the lot of you. This is a forum to showcase artwork. When an image is posted it is to gain feedback on structure, line work, and over-all composition. At no point in time does that involve your personal beliefs on morality or if the subject matter turns you off because you have something against sensuality, pornography, or violence. I have plenty of other places that Joe Public can get into morality debates on the subject matter with me, my work was brought here among my peers for constructive criticism which I have received surprisingly little of on anything I've posted.

I don't wanna' be a smart ass or anything but art is all about effecting personal beliefs and morality and points of view. What you put in as the artist matters as much as what the viewer brings to the table. If you want to put up something for critiquing you gotta' be open to all of it, not some of it. Art is meant to get a reaction from people, both positively and negatively. You take that away from this and you have exactly what you don't want it to be perceived as.

And believe me, I'm not offended by this. I love exotic stuff. I love artists that can draw some fine lookin' ladies. Frank Cho, Frazetta, Adam Hughes, Miller, and a slew of others come to mind. This however doesn't strike me as sexy. It could be but for me it's missing some elements to bring that point home and seems closer to something out of a soft core mag.

Keep at it though 'cause I'm not trying to slam you or discourage you or nothing. If its what you enjoy drawing, do it. I don't think anybody here is being overly critical but just know if you decide to post something you have to be prepared for all sorts of feedback, not just technical.

On the technical side though I'd say just keep practicing. The eyes seem to be on an odd slant in relation to the rest of the head while the head seems disjointed from the neck. I can't really figure out why the fingers on her left hand are posed the way they are. They look awkward. The line leading up the belly from the belly button is off center. It should be in line with the center of the breasts.

But all of that will resolve itself with practice.

Take care.

[Rich]

I wouldn't object to a vision getting a little frisky, I even thought that gay batman exhibition was a great idea. I'm not some mindless biggot who likes tits, as I said it has to enhance the story or add something to the character. The point is (and I hate talking about comic characters as if they're real) that we don't know know what Scarlet Witch gets upto when the lights are off, she may want to get all 'soft core mag' in front of the mirror!

I totally agree the art has issues, but all I'm saying is don't shoot the guy for trying something different.

CAT: I can't apologise enough, but please understand I would have had no idea about your family. I also never said you should watch, just pointing out that whether you want to watch or not, these things go on. I just don't see how it can be out of character/context, when we just don't know that side of a character.

This is what makes art great, the fact that everyone has a different take on it and you can debate this stuff. But it does often take a different approach to something to spark that.

At least agree with me that Greg Land is way overated as sequential artist...lol.

Cheers,
Rich

[chaosgoat]

Hey man, I just want to clear up that I have no problem with sex or portrayal of realistic sex in literature and art. I'm a major proponent of sex-ed and a major opponent of censorship. But I have issues with portrayals that give an unhealthy and unrealistic view of such intimate matters. Especially in a medium that's going to be picked up by ten year olds. Kids have a hard time distinguished from reality and make-believe (the three children who died by mimicing Saddam's execution prove that). This is an unrealistic portrayal, and sends false signals.

But, man, morality and all that crap aside, whatever you do, please don't stop drawing beautiful women. I think it was Cat who mentioned it, and I'll second it: work on more subtle sensually rather than overt sexuality. It's way hotter.

[The DarkMind]

Look as I SAID already..there is nothing wrong with addin sexuality to these characters..but keep it IN character..

What I find amusing, and I pick this quote out only because it was the closest referance though certainly not the first so nothing pesonal Cat, but keeping things in character is all a matter of the writer behind the pen throughout the characters existence and we all know characters are changed and revamped, including total persona overhauls, on a regular basis because the writer "wanted to explore a different side of (the character)".

take into consideration the very fact that SW here was married to an android...c'mon...she was essentially married to a sentient vibrator with appendages! the sexuality may not have been explored on camera so to speak, but this side of her was a given to having existed. LOL (okay going from art review to ethics debate to classic fan-boy arguement..this is great)

[MechaShiva]

What I find amusing, and I pick this quote out only because it was the closest referance though certainly not the first so nothing pesonal Cat, but keeping things in character is all a matter of the writer behind the pen throughout the characters existence and we all know characters are changed and revamped, including total persona overhauls, on a regular basis because the writer "wanted to explore a different side of (the character)".

take into consideration the very fact that SW here was married to an android...c'mon...she was essentially married to a sentient vibrator with appendages! the sexuality may not have been explored on camera so to speak, but this side of her was a given to having existed. LOL (okay going from art review to ethics debate to classic fan-boy arguement..this is great)

Haven't posted in a while but when I first saw this piece, what immediately came to mind was: This was a quick sketch for someone into hentai. Not saying you don't have potential but anyone can draw people wearing little to know clothing. Also Cat is an amazing artist and has gone further with said art than most on this forum... I would respect her opinion.

[evolver]

all this for a picture copied out a girlie mag with a scarlet witch tierra?.. man i'm drawing the wrong stuff.... :nyah:

[The DarkMind]

Haven't posted in a while but when I first saw this piece, what immediately came to mind was: This was a quick sketch for a someone into hentai. Not saying you don't have potential but anyone can draw people wearing little to know clothing. Also Cat is an amazing artist and has gone further with said art than most on this forum... I would respect her opinion.

It is kinda hentai-ish now that you mention it...thanks for pointing that out.

but just where in the bloody blue hell is Cat's opinion disrespected in any way with what you chose to quote? I see a part that specifically says :...I pick this quote out only because it was the closest referance though certainly not the first so nothing pesonal Cat... Pay close attention to the "NOTHING PERSONAL CAT" part in there :) it was chosen only as a reference to support my point that there is no such thing as keeping something in character and artists should not bind themselves to those types of limitations. If I were to draw Wolverine in a fuzzy bunny suit or even frilly lingerie...would people get on my case about it being "out of character" for the ol' Knuckle Head? No. Regardless of how many mistakes could be pointed out people would think its funny, but take a typically non sexual female and spice her up a little bit and everyones morals comes out and wants to lock things down to the "in character" boundaries because it's not funny, its sexy and that's a no-no.

Thats the beauty about artistic expression though. You aren't bound by limits, and not everything that gets drawn is ever intended for portfolio submission to the company that created the character. Obviously if I were to send a packet out to Marvel I would hold true to the character that they established. For single image illustrations? "In" or "Out" of character is 100% irrelevant.

[carynord]

I don't think it's the pose that makes this weird/softcore so much as the tongue sticking out. Not many girls(at least the ones I've known:) ) lovingly caress themselves with their tongues hanging out. It comes off looking like a 14 yr olds fantasy.

If I picture this without the tongue and I don't have a problem with it.

[The DarkMind]

all this for a picture copied out a girlie mag with a scarlet witch tierra?.. man i'm drawing the wrong stuff.... :nyah:

evolver....i'm as shocked as you are

[FeelnMe]

i guess you have to think when composing the pic, what do i want this character to say? is it within this charater to be seen this way in this forum ? personally i love to see traditional characters in a different light, but there's nothing being told about this pic. there's no guy, no woman, no mirror nothing. nothing to put her in this position. i like it, but i think it's just a little extreme for here.

pic is ok, but i think her eye's are too big. her torso is twisted and off-balance and her left hand doesn't look like it would look like that to peel back her top. i get the impression she's trying too hard to be sexy and Wanda doesn't need that and it seems like you tried too hard to make a sexy pic. but once again i think the pic is ok. fix somethings and it'd be a lot better to me.

[Cat]

i guess you have to think when composing the pic, what do i want this character to say? is it within this charater to be seen this way in this forum ? personally i love to see traditional characters in a different light, but there's nothing being told about this pic. there's no guy, no woman, no mirror nothing. nothing to put her in this position. i like it, but i think it's just a little extreme for here.

pic is ok, but i think her eye's are too big. her torso is twisted and off-balance and her left hand doesn't look like it would look like that to peel back her top. i get the impression she's trying too hard to be sexy and Wanda doesn't need that and it seems like you tried too hard to make a sexy pic. but once again i think the pic is ok. fix somethings and it'd be a lot better to me.
EXACTLY! Everything he said here is exactly the same thing everyone else has been saying.

[galmando]

i like sex

[galmando]

i also like other things.

oh i jest (wait, i dont). seems that DarkMind drew a sexy woman so that he could practise more at drawing sexy women. i mean, it isnt very sexy IMO but quite hot.
apart from the broken neck.
but some people like that also.
then seems he through the scarlett witch garb on. i dont get the impression he set out to draw the scarlett witch as a porn star. i dont even think that the fact its SW should come into it.
as said, i would probably say DONT DO IT! if it were a sequential page being sent to marvel, but it aint that. its just a dirty, dirty lady.
any way, SW is a crazy ass psycho mutha' who can warp reality, she can be Pamela Aderson if she wants. stick that in you In Character!

oh i jest. i definately see this point about the line on the chest. i try not to draw live women (that sounds wrong) because the only peron who i could get to model for me is my girlfriend. and if i messed up, well, it could get ugly.

[Lord Fejj]

What bugs me the most is her tongue sticking out, it looks like a potato chip or something :laugh: