Loveless #14

[Clem Robins]

hey all--

Loveless #14 is due out in two weeks or so. (we may have missed the print date, so its release is a little up in the air.)

it'll be the first book to see print using a different process for digital lettering. i would be very interested in getting your feedback on it. it's the result of months of maddening work, and i don't know if anybody but letterers will notice the difference. to me, it's quite startling.

the process will have to remain secret, but i'd like to hear what any of you think. not a whole lot of people seem to be buying Loveless, but if you happen to buy #14, you'll see the process in action.

(or if you don't want to buy Loveless, you can wait a few weeks and buy 100 Buillets #80, or BPRD #4. or The Secret #2 or Faker #2, if you need a few months to save up the cash.)

thanks.

thanks.

[Jason Arthur]

I gotta admit Clem... I dropped Loveless after the first few issues. It wasn't really doing it for me and I found myself more interested in the lettering than the story and artwork...

I know what the process is, but I'm eager to see it in action. I'll see it in BPRD and 100 Bullets if nothing else... Are you doing it for Y: The Last Man as well?

-- J

[eltonpruitt]

Like Jason, I started with Loveless and had to give it up when I realized it just wasn't doing much for me. But I'll pick up #14 to check out the new lettering process fer shur!

I totally missed that there is a new BPRD series coming out (or did it already start)?

[ethanWright]

You're the letterer on Loveless? I've been with the book since the beginning... and I think it's great so far (especially the art!). Anyway, I've got #14 on my pull list, so when I get it I'll pay closer attention to the lettering and see if there's anything different. Is Frusin the artist on #14?

[Clem Robins]

yeah, i'm the letterer on Loveless. which is a miracle. DC wanted their in-house people to do the book, to save money. but Brian Azzarello insisted. (important safety tip for all of you: develop nice relationships with artists and writers and editors.)

Danijel Zezelj drew #14. there's a rape sequence in the story that will tear your heart out, and also explain a lot of the apparently senseless violence that the past thirteen issues have displayed.

i like Loveless, a lot. i thought the book hit its stride with #8. Brian can be maddeningly coy with readers, dropping little hints here and there, and expecting everybody to peck at the crumbs. but he's worth it.

i received a makeready of #14 yesterday. the new technology works fine, but i must confess the type i'm using does not yet fully exploit its power. i compared #13 and #14. #13 looks better, because i'm used to working the old way, and this new thing will take some getting used to.

sorry for being so tight-lipped about the process. but it's hard to get books these days, and i am hoping that as the new process takes shape, it will translate into more projects. if other people offered the same thing, it might deprive me of the wealth and adulation that i so richly deserve.

Loveless #14, i just found out, is due in stores this coming Wednesday.

thanks in advance for any feedback you might care to send my way, everybody.

[Kep!]

So, without divulging your evil scheme for world domination, how about a bit of what it does for you? Save time? How much? Effort? Hands off? Money? More? What's the goods?

[Clem Robins]

the process enables you to typset copy with the same letter never appearing twice, or hardly ever, anyway.

just the latest installement in the ol' fake-'em-out-into-thinking-it-wasn't-done-on-a-computer rag.

it's a work in progress, but i'm reasonably happy about Loveless #14.

[Kep!]

Oooooooo! I look forward to seeing it in action!

[Clem Robins]

it's not perfect, but it's a beginning.

stop in at your comic shop this coming wednesday. and please let me know what you think.

[Fablewood]

You tease! :p

[Clem Robins]

considering the sales figures on Loveless, if five or ten of you bought #14 it would be a real spike in sales

[ethanWright]

I just finished reading #13 yesterday. Again, awesome book. I was pissed at first because of the cliffhanger in issue #12 (what's happenning to Wes????), but by the time I finished reading it I was totally into this story and found myself really enjoying it. The combination of writing, art, lettering, everything just worked great together. And Zezelj is AWESOME!

I'm looking forward to #14, I just hope it's not Ruth that gets raped (again) :cry:

And I just saw the numbers for sales on Loveless - aren't you guys doing like 10,000/month? I would think that's pretty decent for a western/mature style book?

[Clem Robins]

i dunno. everybody knows about those numbers except me. i don't know where you find them. i thought somebody had told me that book didn't sell very well.

i wish more people would stick with it. it's heady stuff, teetertottering on the profound. and Brian's dialogue is so elliptical, each panel's like solving a crossword puzzle.

i agree with you about Danijel. i wish he could bring faces into a little sharper focus, but he's got bitching instincts for composition. and Trish's coloring is fantastic on his stuff.

[Jason Arthur]

I think the writing is fine, but it's tough for me to follow monthlies anymore. By the time I read the current issue I've already forgotten what happened in last months book. 100 Bullets is a perfect example.

I need to just buy trades and call it a day.

I do that with Deus Ex Machina and love the way that's worked out nicely.

-- J

[JacoNB]

the process enables you to typset copy with the same letter never appearing twice, or hardly ever, anyway.

Sounds really interesting, Clem! You've got my little brain working up ways on how it could possibly be done. lol

Loveless, eh? I'm not sure if my crappy shop even gets that title, but I'll look for it after Christmas.

[augiedb]

I tried the first LOVELESS trade but was so lost and confused by the time the second issue was finished that I put it down. Maybe I'll give it another shot. I might have just been tired the first time or something.

That said, I'll be at least flipping through the book on the shelves this week -- or next. (Don't know if I'll be visiting my comics shop during the holiday here.)

-Augie

[Clem Robins]

azzarello doesn't make it easy on you. and marcelo's drawings don't make things any easier to follow. if you stick with it, it'll all make sense.

what the hell, will ya just buy #14 and let me know if you can see a difference in the lettering?

[ethanWright]

I get the numbers from newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com)
The post them every month or so.

[JeffPowell]

I forgot the comic shipment got pushed back a day. Bah!

[Clem Robins]

criminies, i hope you guys aren't overly disappointed. loveless 14 is a first step. the process will need a lot of work.

but please buy it anyway, to trick DC into thinking that when i letter something, sales increase

[eDuke]

but please buy it anyway, to trick DC into thinking that when i letter something, sales increase
Wouldn't that be amazing?! But I've actually found myself buying books when I see some really cool, funky effects going on.

[Kep!]

Wouldn't that be amazing?! But I've actually found myself buying books when I see some really cool, funky effects going on.
Yup, more than one comic shop patron has side stepped away from me when I'm standing in front of a rack and shout "DAMN! Look at that kearning pair!" and rush to the counter to buy it.

[eDuke]

Haw! From YOU! I believe it! ;)

[eltonpruitt]

My LCS was sold out when I went by today to pick it up. They never sell out of Loveless, so I can only guess it's all due to you, Clem :)

She's gonna order one for me, though, so I'll let you know when I finally get it!

[Clem Robins]

gee, this is gratifying news. if only DC knew

[Kep!]

Haw! From YOU! I believe it! ;)
YES from ME! Who Knew?

[augiedb]

Heh. My comic shop was sold out by the time I made it over there last night. I don't think they stock more than one or two shelf copies, though. I'll have to wait for the next book, unless someone wants to scan in a panel for us. . .

-Augie

[Jason Arthur]

My shop was also "sold out" of copies. My shop is a small one though and they usually only get one or two extra copies (beyond pull-list copies).

-- J

[Clem Robins]

well, thanks for trying.

100 Bullets 80, Y the Last Man 53, Faker 2, The Secret 2, and the second issue of the new Hellboy mini ought will feature the new stuff, if you can remember.

[eltonpruitt]

well, thanks for trying.

100 Bullets 80, Y the Last Man 53, Faker 2, The Secret 2, and the second issue of the new Hellboy mini ought will feature the new stuff, if you can remember.
Well I'm good then, because Y's on my pull list.

[Piekos]

I saw it yesterday. Font looks nifty, but it made the balloons scream, "digital" -- it almost looked like you hand lettered in digital balloons. Weird.

~N

[Clem Robins]

in other words, the imperfection of the lettering drew attention to the mechanical perfection of the balloons? that's interesting. i will have to do something about that. thanks.

[Topher13]

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/1016/loveless14pu0.gif

;)

I liked the issue. It was the first one of Loveless that I bought. Jonah Hex just always seemed to get my western buckage.

Couldn't tell the difference in the lettering right off the bat. Looked at one of your old "Y The Last Man" to compare.

[Kep!]

in other words, the imperfection of the lettering drew attention to the mechanical perfection of the balloons? that's interesting. i will have to do something about that. thanks.
Hmmm...I have a trick somewhere around here to do just that. Some of the older (forum) guys might remember what I'm talking about. Let me see what i can find...

[Clem Robins]

i have a method for funking up the line weight of balloons, but it strangely does not work as well in CS. and unfortunately, this amazing (and judging from almost everybody, including myself) nearly-invisible-as-yet new process only works in CS.

my old method involved putting balloons through the roughen filter, and then through the zigzag filter, i think. (it's been on an action key for two years now, so i haven't had to think about it much.) but when i try the same settings in CS, nothing much happens.

so if anybody's got any swell ideas, i'm all ears.

thanks for buying, or shoplifting, Loveless #14.

[cyxodus]

thanks for buying, or shoplifting, Loveless #14.
Run!! He's onto you. :confused:

[Kep!]

Run!! He's onto you. :confused:
Prove it.

[JacoNB]

so if anybody's got any swell ideas, i'm all ears.

I use a "calligraphic" brush to give my balloons (etc). a pen-lettered look. It was something I picked up from Kody Chamberlain, I believe.

I use a slightly different method (I couldn't remember the exact procedure Kody outlined, so I improvised). Basically, I set up a new brush with these settings:

http://www.jacocomics.com/Callig_brush.jpg

"Normal" digital stroke on the left, "pen effect" on the right.

These settings are very subtle, but it adds a nice little variation to the stroke 'width' and it makes for a nice effect. (I think, anyway.) Kody's settings were a bit different (again, this brush was set up from memory) so you might need to tweak it a bit to suit your needs. Hope this helps!

- Jason

(Thanks Kody!)

[Clem Robins]

i tried something like this a while back, but i really ought to check into it again. thank you.

[cyxodus]

Thanks, Jason.

[JacoNB]

No prob, guys. Thank Kody, actually. lol

- J

[eltonpruitt]

I only recently tracked down that Loveless #14, and I have to agree with Nate's comment that it looks like hand lettering in digital balloons. So if the balloons can be roughened or something to feel less digital, I think that would make for a heck of a nice finished look.

I really dig Sean Phillips lettering on Criminal, while we're on the subject of hand-lettering (or a hand-lettered look). He is doing more or less a reverse approach to what you did in this issue of Loveless. The font is based on his actual hand-lettering, but is just a normal font otherwise. But he is hand-drawing the balloons on the page. I love the way that looks!

And to veer even further off-topic, I just tonight read The Secret #1 and I love the lettering work you did there. It totally complements the aesthetic feel of the art and story. The SFX look positively done by hand and contribute a lot to the overall creepy effect of the story. That, and what you do with the "how do you know my secret?"

I'll be curious to see how this changes with issue 2, when you're using the new technique.

[Clem Robins]

thanks, elton. i didn't know Secret 1 was out yet. i haven't seen it.

i think Secret 2 is a very good vehicle for the new technology. the funky letters look better on funky artwork that plays heavily with textures and shadow patterns. (the new method was used on the last two issues of Y, but it's hardly noticeable on that book.)

great to hear you liked the sfx, but i didn't do them. mine were deleted, and those done by the artist were used. they were indeed hand lettered, just not by me. but if i get nominated for some award based on them, i will take the credit for them.

the "how do you know my secret?" may be mine or may be the artist's. i designed a special font for those creepy speeches, but it was up in the air whether Darkhorse would go with mine or what the artist did.

Secret's a great comic, isn't it? it gets better. i finished #3 a month ago. love these stories that play on adolescent angst.

[Kody]

I use a "calligraphic" brush to give my balloons (etc). a pen-lettered look. It was something I picked up from Kody Chamberlain, I believe.

I use a slightly different method (I couldn't remember the exact procedure Kody outlined, so I improvised). Basically, I set up a new brush with these settings:

http://www.jacocomics.com/Callig_brush.jpg

"Normal" digital stroke on the left, "pen effect" on the right.

These settings are very subtle, but it adds a nice little variation to the stroke 'width' and it makes for a nice effect. (I think, anyway.) Kody's settings were a bit different (again, this brush was set up from memory) so you might need to tweak it a bit to suit your needs. Hope this helps!

- Jason

(Thanks Kody!)

Yep, that's the same way I was doing it (some variations on the settings, of course). Used to have a tutorial on the forum with that, but I think it got purged last time Ed upgraded the message boards. I don't know if I still have it on my external hard drive. I had a few different ones I worked up one weekend when I was bored.

[Clem Robins]

i gave your brush settings a try, and it's a lot better than the series of filters i've been using. thank you very much. i spent the morning reconfiguring my template using the settings.

you really can teach a very old dog new tricks.

thanks again, both of you.

[Larry Shuput]

I read this thread a few months ago and found it very interesting. While looking at the newest Loveless i picked up on what you are doing. I think it's great it definitely gives a "made by hand" feel.

[Clem Robins]

thanks. it's been mostly a disappointment to me thus far, but it could probably stand some major revamping.

[Amadarwin]

I use a "calligraphic" brush to give my balloons (etc). a pen-lettered look. It was something I picked up from Kody Chamberlain, I believe.

I use a slightly different method (I couldn't remember the exact procedure Kody outlined, so I improvised). Basically, I set up a new brush with these settings:

http://www.jacocomics.com/Callig_brush.jpg

"Normal" digital stroke on the left, "pen effect" on the right.

These settings are very subtle, but it adds a nice little variation to the stroke 'width' and it makes for a nice effect. (I think, anyway.) Kody's settings were a bit different (again, this brush was set up from memory) so you might need to tweak it a bit to suit your needs. Hope this helps!

- Jason

(Thanks Kody!)
SOrry to resurrect an old thread, but does anyone have a copy of this instructional jpg? Thanks