Working with Non-Repro Blue

[BKKiMP]

Greetings Folks,

I was curious who here might work with non-repro blue pencils on a regular basis and what your experience with and tips for them are.

I'm certainly very familiar with the concept and have used them in the past but not to the extent I'd like to. I believe that many scanners, including my own, do pick these lines up and the non-repro relates more to older methods of reproduction such as photostats.

While not an expert with Photoshop, I am quite familiar with it and would be interested in hearing how people deal with non-repro after scanning. Do you scan images in color and then drop out the blue channel somehow to remove the lines?

Some of the finished artwork I would be developing may consist of detailed pencil work not even intending to be inked so I need a definite way of preserving fine pencil line and shading while removing the blueline underdrawings. Any tips, tricks, tutorial links, and advice would be appreciated.

Sincerely,
Bryan "the Imp" Imhoff
theimp@bustakappakappa.com

[Biofungus]

You know, the thing I like the least about NRB pencils, is they wear down WAY too fast. I'm a lose sketcher, and I can kill one of those pencils within a couple of pages. It would take me easily 8-10 pencils to do an entire comic.

That being said, I think they are good if you're inking your own work, and want to just rough the pencils and tighten it with the inks. This also works well for scanning (just scan in hi-dpi black and white, and you shouldn't have any blue showing). But for the most part, I find a 3H does just as well, lasts a LOT longer, and I can get more of them for cheaper.

I guess ultimately, it's a very individual choice. Consult your inker. He may hate working with NRB, and will hate you for 23 years if he's forced to ink over them. :har:

[dano]

^agree.

I never got the hang of drawing with that light blue. a higher H, if you don't have a heavy hand, works great and erases easily.

[cronevald]

I have a very hand and even with a 2h I can create a lot of very dark mess when I pencil. I've done a lot of work I've had to ink myself and I found that many brands of NPB left a lot of wax on the page that would repel ink so I swore off it for a bit. However, I finally have the luxury of working with an inker for some upcoming projects so I've gone back to NPB (and a bit of red for perspective lines) to try to tighten my work up a bit before doing the final lines in 2h. I asked a similar question (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73670) about stripping the colours from the scans on the Pencil Jack forums and Nate Lovett gave me a very simple method for doing so.

the easiest way to do it in my opinion is:

-open up the hue/saturation box, under adjustments: hot key, ctrl u

-from the drop box select whatever color you want to get rid of, cyan if non photo blue is used, red for red, etc.

-turn the saturation all the way down, and the lightness all the way up.

-repeat for any other colors you want to get rid of.

hope that helps.

Of course as mentioned above for ink work, if you scan as a black and white bitmap the NPB should drop right out.

[jimmybott]

Wow, it's cool to hear everyone elses different techniques.

Non-repro blue pencils were invented not to be picked up by platemaking cameras in the offset litho-process. Rarely are plates made with a camera these days, we use computers and a film printer to create the negatives. Also, we now have the ability to print the image directly to the plate completely avoiding the film and old plate making processes completly.

This is how I deal with the non-repro pencils: I scan the pages in CMYK then turn the Cyan right down to miniumum. The lines disappear leaving the lineworking looking red. Then I turn the page to greyscale.

[danedawg99]

I do loose sketching with NRB, then tighten that with an F or 2H pencil. I find that the blue pencil allows me a looseness that I don't get with the regular pencil. That might just be me, tho.

[cronevald]

I do loose sketching with NRB, then tighten that with an F or 2H pencil. I find that the blue pencil allows me a looseness that I don't get with the regular pencil. That might just be me, tho.

That's exactly why I'm trying this technique myself. I like to start really loose and the NPB lets me do that without creating a big gray mess that's a nightmare to clean up. I'm finding that it's saving me time and it's keeping my work a bit more fresh and dynamic.

[BKKiMP]

Thanks for the replies everyone, good discussion going here!

I'm with you Cronevald on feeling that using the blue helps keep my artwork a bit more loose and fresh, mainly in regards to figure drawing. I also just really like the look of it. :laugh: I think it was in a gorgeous Barry Windsor Smith book I have that you can see some great blueline underwork, and I believe he mentions that he really likes the look of the blueline.

Perspective grids though are a big plus to me of working with the blueline, and are also something that I don't feel is easily erasable in terms of just working with a harder lead pencil instead.

Thanks much for the tips on knocking colors out in Photoshop, I'll have to play around with those and find what settings work best for me. I'd say that the project I'm going to be working on will most likely have a black and white (and gray) mixed media kind of style, so some will be printed in pencil, ink wash, charcoal, you name it. Dropping a color out and converting to greyscale should help preserve the look and detail that I want and allow me to use the blueline underdrawing technique.

I've never found too much trouble in what I've been using with the blueline being too waxy for ink, but I have heard this from several people. Any suggestions out there on better pencils, or preference for something like the redline... less waxy?

-Bryan "the Imp" Imhoff
theimp@bustakappakappa.com

[GW.Fisher]

Using PhotoShop, scan in as lineart 600 dpi. No blue scans in.

Of course it's not as easy as the multi-step post production work that nate lovett proposes... :whistlin:

[sgm]

Using PhotoShop, scan in as lineart 600 dpi. No blue scans in.

Of course it's not as easy as the multi-step post production work that nate lovett proposes... :whistlin:
You're right G.W.

It's the best method for scanning inks, but I think Bryan is thinking more about scanning pencils that have a NRB underdrawing. In that case, he must use Nate's method, or a variation on it to eliminate the "blues" from the scan of the pencils.

[chaosgoat]

I love my non-repro blue pencil. I find that my work has a much better flow and naturalness when I lay down some rough blues first than with regular 2H alone. It suits my drawing style (pretty light handed), and lets me pick and choose my lines.

And my scanner doesn't tend to pick up much of the blue, so that hasn't really been a problem for me.

[TAP_LEGION]

I hated the look and never understood why someone would draw anything with a blue pencil , obvious printing reasons aside.

Never drawn with them...never will.

[Nick Pitarra]

I only pencil in non-repro blue lead in my mechanicle pencils (.5). Its has a nice soft touch to it...but you can get dark and sharp with it too,plus it doesn't smear like lead does....if you ink your work it won't show up at all...the contrast between the blue and black is usually to great...if it does show up , just adjust the scanner to scan in a little lighter or make a copy thats lighter and then scan in....or just adjust in photoshop. I'm heavy handed and the lead breaks really easily, but its teaching me to have a softer touch.

~nick

[j giar]

I do page layouts and loose sketching in 2h. I go in with a 2b...scan and convert to blue line. Then ink over those. I like to be able to move the page around the table as I work. Tried the lite box route. I use the box to transfer thumbnails after they've been blown up. NRB i use for dialogue and ballon placement for lettering. Although when I was starting out I used to do the entire page in NRB.

[LilGreenMan]

I used to but man, they suck. First their wax. Going straight from them to inking with a nib is a pain. The wax doesn't pick up on the ink well. More an annoyance then anything.

[Arne S.]

didn´t read everything here, but want to describe my workflow:

1. i do the pencil-sketch (layout),
2. scan it and put it in photoshop into the correct form (if it is a comicpage, i arrange the sketch in the exact panel)
3. i turn it into a light blue, size it up and print it out. if it is a comicpage, i print every panel-line on a seperate sheet.
4. i draw the corrections with the blue-pencil
5. ink it
6. scan it and delete the blue with photoshop. gives me a clean lineart.

most of the time, i didn´t even use the eraser.

that´s the way, i can work the best and fastest. everyone has to find his on workflow, the way he can work the best.