Photo Ref Everywhere!!

[Mat Major]

So I just caught this preview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9117) at CBR...

Man! Everybody is using photo ref these days! And when it's this obvious it totally takes me out of the story! Can people quit please! At least get your own models or something instead of using celebs! Josh Holloway, Lou Ferrigno, Bruce Willis, Vincent Pastore...Is that Angelina Jolie from that scene in Mr. & Mrs. Smith? Can you catch them all? I love that page with the mech but I'm scared that he swiped that!

[dano]

vote with your wallet

[Mat Major]

vote with your wallet

Always do ;)

[Nitecrawlah2]

It wouldn't be so blatant if the characters looked the same in EACH PANEL! While I'm not against artists photo referencing, it just seems lately that some artists are just swiping the pictures directly and calling it their own artwork/creation/property.

[Mat Major]

I just flipped through issue one of newuniversal at the comic store for, like, 2 seconds, and saw Gene Hackman in there too!

I'm with you Nitecrawlah, I don't mind photoref...Hell, I LOVE Bryan Hitch, Alex Ross, and Tony Harris. Heh, I actually PREFER Harris's photo stuff. But using celebs like that?...takes me out of the story and makes me question the validity of the art some. Is it a swipe? Did he trace the image? Photomanipulation through Photoshop? Doing the footwork and taking your own pics is one thing (ala Harris & Hitch & Ross) but I don't know about stealing other's photos...even if they are in the public domain...

[Mark Bertolini]

ehh...who really cares? Newuniversal was a kick ass book, so just concentrate on the story. Don't drop a Warren Ellis book because of the art.

[yakattack_one]

I never was able to get my copy of new universal.
my store sold out in like an hour and a half.
That was the one book that I really wanted.
Damn now I have to create a pull list.
I did not want to do that.
*shrugs* Oh well. going to make my list now.


Eric

[uncle wya]

ehh...who really cares? Newuniversal was a kick ass book, so just concentrate on the story. Don't drop a Warren Ellis book because of the art.

People that think art is just as important as story, that's who. Seeing an actor's face in a comic annoys me completely, I can't even read the book when I see that. Art needs a personal flavor from the artist, not obvious photo reffing from movies and Tv. I looked at the link, that is some LAME stuff. I'll stick with artists who can draw faces and anatomy all on thier own, their own way.

[danedawg99]

did I just see Sawyer?!

[galmando]

u definately saw Sawyer

[kdmelrose]

... and half the cast of The Sopranos.

[Nitecrawlah2]

... and half the cast of The Sopranos.
I noticed that too :laugh: .

I think it can detract from the story, regardless of it being a Warren Ellis book. If I'm reading panel-to-panel, and the character can't maintain the same look (at least similar!), it amounts to some horrid storytelling. It certainly doesn't help a character "pops up" to look like Sawyer/Big Pussy/Bruce Willis/Angelina Jolie for only one-two panels.

[Scott Story]

I'll admit, not watching tv, I don't recognize most of the characters as traced from photos, but you guys would know better than me. The guy in the alley looks like Bruce Willis in some shots, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, if this was traced, it seems like this problem is getting worse quick. Like that CBR thing that Land is tracing his work from other companies he's worked at for his Marvel work. I thought Marvel put the kibosh on this image theft stuff in a letter to all their artists? Strange.

[Mat Major]

I thought Marvel put the kibosh on this image theft stuff in a letter to all their artists? Strange.

I think that has to do with swiping other artists' work and not using photo ref pulled from the internet.

The thing that get's me is: How legal is this? Aren't there laws against using a person's likeness without their permission? Does this fit into Public Domain and artistic interpretation?

I know that in Ultimates Millar and Hitch covered up Freddie Prinze Jr.'s face with word bubbles because they didn't have his permission as of print time. However, that's different than this because they actually name him in the comic.

hmmm, after looking at it more it might be Drew Barrymore...but I think I'll stick with Jolie.

[Mr.Musgrave]

The thing that get's me is: How legal is this? Aren't there laws against using a person's likeness without their permission? Does this fit into Public Domain and artistic interpretation?


It's not. There are. And it doesn't.

[Justice41]

Weird because Larroca can actually draw.

[danedawg99]

I know! I think that's what infuriates me most about this! I used to love his stuff, but now... :cry:

[Nitecrawlah2]

Weird because Larroca can actually draw.
Definitely. I was digging his "inkless" style in Xtreme X-Men, and thought he made leaps and bounds with regards to his style over the course of that title. And now he's doing this? Photo referencing aside, the work looks sloppy.

Musgrave, while there are laws against this, I think they only apply if said character in the comic was supposed to be Bruce Willis. It's a shame the companies/editors themselves aren't questioning these things before going to print.

[Mr.Musgrave]

*sigh*

This will be my only word on this because threads like this always fireball into a burning pit of ignorance but...

It doesn't matter if the character is supposed to be bruce willis. What matters is who owns the copyright to the PHOTO of bruce willis.

[Nitecrawlah2]

We're on two similar wavelengths here.

The first is regarding a photograph an artist decides to swipe and have published as their own artwork. The copywright owner of the photo then has the right to dispute/litigation.

The second is in regards to using the likeness and name of a person without expressed permission to do so. Specifically, the aforementioned use of Freddie Prinze's name without illustrating him in order to get by this.

What I was saying is that Salvador Larocca's Bruce Willis panel might not be breaking any laws if he's using the general likeness without swiping a direct photo reference. I doubt this, though, as most of these artists are usually taking these likenesses from direct photos and, thus, could be in trouble by the copywright holder.

[Mat Major]

*sigh*...threads like this always fireball into a burning pit of ignorance but...

It's comments like that which start the fireball and make people think that everyone on messageboards is the comic book guy. At least put a smiley face after it.

BITTER AND MEAN:
*sigh*...threads like this always fireball into a burning pit of ignorance but...

PLAYFUL SARCASM:
*sigh*...threads like this always fireball into a burning pit of ignorance :har: but...

See, much better :nyah:

[Mr.Musgrave]

If you're been here for the four hundred and fifty million previous threads about this subject you'd understand why there are no smiley faces.

[Scott Story]

Musgrave is right. Sometimes this stuff flies under the radar, but the law is pretty clear on it.

Does anything seem a little weird about this? The fact that this is happening more and more makes me wonder if editorial is pushing it. Larocca can draw, and draw beautifully, so why would he out of the blue start swiping photos. It's like that guy who named a bunch of characters after British soccer players, when everyone knows the shitstorm McFarlane got into for it. It seems like there's a game of one-upmanship going on, where everyone is pushing the boundaries. Plus, all the debates we've had over Land, or Bradstreet, or any of those guys.

I'm just saying, it seems like there's a pattern. Or, has it always happened, and we just hear more about it because of the internet. I suppose it's the latter.

[Mat Major]

It's always happened but artists are getting more brazen about it. It's like you said, one-upsmanship. One person does it a little and the next does it a little more.

Photo-realism is very popular right now and producing that level of work is tough and time-consuming. Obviously people are going to take shortcuts. One guy took a small shortcut and the next took a bigger one. Eventually it's going to get noticed by someone important that has the gumption to do something about it and it'll stop...hopefully.

Did I just type "gumption"?

[Nitecrawlah2]

It's always happened but artists are getting more brazen about it. It's like you said, one-upsmanship. One person does it a little and the next does it a little more.

Photo-realism is very popular right now and producing that level of work is tough and time-consuming. Obviously people are going to take shortcuts. One guy took a small shortcut and the next took a bigger one. Eventually it's going to get noticed by someone important that has the gumption to do something about it and it'll stop...hopefully.

Did I just type "gumption"?
Good point. Like I said earlier, I'm surprised the editors let a lot of this stuff fly. The sadder thing is that books are later than ever, despite such "shotcuts."

[Justice41]

Editors don't care. They already covered, legally, their collective asses with the Memo at Marvel. The stupid thing about using photo ref is that they use famous people and second they try to use non sequential pictures to create a sequential comic. Idiotic. Land doesn't care and neither do any of the artists doing this otherwise they wouldn't do it to begin with. To the fans they are basically giving us the finger while spitting on us as well as telling us to F off or F you.

[hannu]

What makes me laugh is that the likeness isn´t even that great in those CBR pages. You´d think that a pro could trace better than that... :laugh: :yuk:

[jedipencil]

When I do get the chance to read a comic book or graphic novel, the one thing I appreciate is when the characters' look stays consistent, and I know who I'm looking at. It is perhaps a dumb thing to say, but in one or two books I've read, it takes me way out of the story when I must guess who the character is.... I'm not sure I care who the character resembles as long as I can recognize him/her! No offense intended to anyone..... :)

[The-Spirit]

Man! Everybody is using photo ref these days! Can people quit please!
OK I'll try but I'm making so much money to trace these pitures. And I have time to spare.

[hardinart]

Write to the editors of the book, they are the ones pushing for this style.

[Paul Sanderson]

It's true that artists are taking more and more shortcuts, but the same can be said of editors, many of whom are clearly not doing their jobs properly.

[Mat Major]

It's true that artists are taking more and more shortcuts, but the same can be said of editors, many of whom are clearly not doing their jobs properly.

Hear, Hear...I can't believe something like this gets past the layers of editorial that a company like Marvel has in place. Do they even care? I don't think they do.